Proportional Representation

[spence]

Should have had a catchier thread title then

To be fair there is no better party out there to form a coalition party with the Tories. DUP were Brexit supporters and a conservative party.

 

[Guy Fawkes]

Surely having PR will make it more likely in future that the largest party will have to do deals with much smaller and/or batshit crazy parties?

Agree PR is a much worse system and for so many reasons, other reasons including:
Loss of local MP representation and MP's therefore standing and getting in on local issues
Electorate unable to vote any MP out of office (parties appoint MPs from their lists and are not directly chosen by the electorate)
and so on....

 

[Buzzer]

To be fair there is no better party out there to form a coalition party with the Tories. DUP were Brexit supporters and a conservative party.

Sorry but not my kind of Conservative. If they're going to invite the DUP into Government then they might as well re-instate all privileges to the Monday Club whilst they're at it.

 

[Titanic]

Question has to be asked: just who ARE these bog-snorkelling DUP no-marks who somehow suddenly somehow got to play any kind of part in running our country?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2017-40255958

It's just pathetic.

Never ever been a clearer case made IMHO for Proportional Representation.

Exactly the same political party that Gordon Brown tried to make a deal with after the 2010 General Election.

 

[Triggaaar]

Did they though? Correct me if I'm wrong but hadn't Cameron had already said he was going to have a referendum before the last general election?

I would think that the votes showed how people felt before the referendum took place, that helped encourage people to back the leave campaign. If no one had voted for UKIP, I imagine politicians would have been even more reluctant to back leave.

Don't get me wrong the protest clearly worked in the fact UKIP were a one policy party and they achieved their policy. But we'll never know how much of an impact they actually had.

They got us out of the EU. Cameron wouldn't have had the referendum without UKIP being popular before his commitment, he offered the referendum as he knew some people wanted it.

Over 10m people voted to leave who didn't vote for them at the general election. You've got to think those that did vote for them would have been the safest leave voters going.

Yes, I'd imagine those that voted UKIP would have voted leave. Not sure what you're saying?

I imagine the old UKIP voters no longer see the need for them, as the job's been done. Presumably UKIP also lost out due to tactical voting.

 

[Brovion]

Did they though? Correct me if I'm wrong but hadn't Cameron had already said he was going to have a referendum before the last general election?

Don't get me wrong the protest clearly worked in the fact UKIP were a one policy party and they achieved their policy. But we'll never know how much of an impact they actually had. Over 10m people voted to leave who didn't vote for them at the general election. You've got to think those that did vote for them would have been the safest leave voters going.

We DID have a referendum, as I mentioned in my post #75.

In all the bleating about how 'unfair' FPTP is it's been forgotten that in 2011 we had a chance to change the voting system - and decided not to.

 

[Bladders]

Yes...and I am saying you can have PR AND local representation. There are many different ways to do more PR based systems, not just fully blown PR. Although that would still be the best and fairest form of democracy.

Yes you can but the more local representation you have the more watered down PR becomes , so what's the point .

I appreciate the clamour for PR as the individual feels their vote is really worth something but I fear that in reality a lot of people will be marginalised and unrepresented when a government is formed .

It's a bit like socialism, looks great on paper but in reality never really works


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Guy Fawkes]

Yes...and I am saying you can have PR AND local representation. There are many different ways to do more PR based systems, not just fully blown PR. Although that would still be the best and fairest form of democracy.

What about independents? How would that work?

Or would you prefer we only have mainstream political parties ? Is that better democracy in action?

 

[DumLum]

If you live in mid sussex your vote doesn't count for much. I believe in pr for this reason.
Conservative got 57% of the vote. Same mp for 20 years. Mid sussex has been conservative my entire life.

 

[beorhthelm]

Socialism does work as well,

when and where?

 

[goldstone]

I've read all of the posts and some very interesting opinions, but as with most things in politics it's very difficult to reach a conclusion. As an aside, one thing we should do is dractically reduce the number of MPs. Why do we need 600+ for a country our size? Massive cost savings if we reduced the number by 25% and parliament would be no less effective.

 

[Bladders]

Utter nonsense on both accounts. If the makeup and views of a government exactly match those of the people it governs how can anyone be marginalised? Everyone's viewpoint is represented.
Socialism does work as well, the selfish just try to rip it down all the time.

Ok mate

 

[Bladders]

when and where?

Venezuela looking the model for the future

 

[Bladders]

I've read all of the posts and some very interesting opinions, but as with most things in politics it's very difficult to reach a conclusion. As an aside, one thing we should do is dractically reduce the number of MPs. Why do we need 600+ for a country our size? Massive cost savings if we reduced the number by 25% and parliament would be no less effective.

its one person per 100,000 people roughly . What would you suggest?

 

[beorhthelm]

Name a place where a capitalist system works with no problems.

i didnt make any claim. you backing your's up or conceding?

 

[Trevor]

I am in favour of PR

Main Pro - The elected government is more representative of the views of the electorate in terms of policy

Main Con - The government (often coalition) is likely to be bland.

I reckon also that the popularity of individual party leaders becomes less significant

 

[Seagull]

Sorry have not read the whole thread, but the most reasonable and fair system is STV the single transferable vote. It has been recommended by the Electoral Reform Society for a long time. https://www.electoral-reform.org.uk/voting-systems/types-of-voting-system/single-transferable-vote/

It was Lib Dem policy in 2010 but they got suckered into the AV poll by the Tories. Big fail. The current FPTP system is a broken travesty and very undemocratic. We need change.

 

[goldstone]

its one person per 100,000 people roughly . What would you suggest?

I quoted a number in my post .... 25% less than the current total. Quite enough.

 

[clapham_gull]

Sorry have not read the whole thread, but the most reasonable and fair system is STV the single transferable vote. It has been recommended by the Electoral Reform Society for a long time. https://www.electoral-reform.org.uk/voting-systems/types-of-voting-system/single-transferable-vote/

It was Lib Dem policy in 2010 but they got suckered into the AV poll by the Tories. Big fail. The current FPTP system is a broken travesty and very undemocratic. We need change.

The Lib Dems biggest mistake and they won't better it. Going into coalition with the party who would do their best to kill it.

AV (or STV) now associated with "proportional representation" which has become a fear phrase for thinking you'd end up the BNP in charge of education. FPTP has given you the DUP. Brilliant

The here and now ?

A castrated Tory party with their biggest vote since 1983. More votes than Labour got with their huge biggest post war landslide.

Corbyn patted on the back with less votes than Brown.

A coalition and a hung parliament in 2 of the last 3 elections under first past the post.

It's f#####. Completely f####'.

Time to wake up. If AV was applied in 2015 - Cameron would have got a bigger majority with a much clearer mandate.

So me - proportional representation ? Nope. Change the system a bit - Parties will attempt to campaign outside of their core vote and marginal and you will end up with stronger Governments with a clearer mandate.

At this point in history FPTP is simply giving you what most people think it doesn't.

 

[The Birdman]

What system did Italy have in the past didn't they have many elections due to coalitions collapsing.
Also I think someone mentioned the number of MPs in the UK isn't this being looked at.the recommendations was to reduce the number.