Proof that the UK is SICK of the Tories

[Buzzer]

Generally speaking, they are not places you would want to live, including the USA if you are part of its underclass. Imagine having to live in pain because you can't afford a simple operation, or even worse, die. 3 Americans die every every day because they don't have health insurance.

Free healthcare models such as ours, Canada, France even Cuba are exemplary - every person on the planet should have the right to free healthcare, regardless of circumstances.

Way too simplistic. America spends way more on healthcare than Japan yet Japan has a much more efficient system and its people live longer. Bloomberg rates Hong Kong as having the best healthcare system in the world with one of the very lowest costs per head in the developed world and essentially a private system.

http://www.bloomberg.com/visual-data/best-and-worst/most-efficient-health-care-countries

Switzerland is joint top for life expectancy yet has a private health system.

And the idea of free healthcare for all regardless of circumstances is nonsense. Does it include cosmetic surgery? What about where the hospitals simply can't afford to treat every patient? Some cancer treatments for example are only available privately because they cost so much. You can't simply throw every penny at the health service.

 

[HovaGirl]

I was going to ask why you're so obsessed with debt, but will put that down to the state of contemporary political discourse. Sometimes, recessions and depressions for instance, it is wise for governments to go into debt. Note that the ratio of UK government debt to GDP is about 80% at present. It was over 200% in 1945, yet we still managed to create Britain's finest institution then, not to mention a strong, stable growing economy that drastically reduced both poverty and economic inequality. UK government debt has been higher than at present for about 200 years out of the last 250.

In 1945, we had just had a war which lasted 6 years, so we cannot compare 200% of GDP in 1945 with 80% of GDP now, if your figures are correct. Since that war, indeed, since long before that, the UK has been in debt and that debt is climbing every year. The NHS was created to be almost self-financing, through NI and tax contributions, but those contributions were never enough, as people lived longer and longer, and had access to more and more sophisticated and expensive treatments. I believe the NHS costs more than the country actually earns in taxes.

 

[HovaGirl]

It's been 11 months for me but I have an appointment just before x'mas. I hope they don't postpone it.

I was supposed to have a minor op yesterday, but they cancelled it. Now they have sent a text message wondering why I didn't turn up.

 

[HovaGirl]

Would you prefer to wait longer than 4 hours then?

They don't DO anything after the four hours, just say they'll be back soon. We waited 9 hours with my Mum and about 11 hours with our son, one time.

 

[Beach Hut]

Canvassing for **** of the year 2013?

Not really but it seems to be going rather well so far

 

[HovaGirl]

How many countries provide free medical help to all and sundry? So are all those that don't "obscene"?

Not many, which is why, it seems, so many turn up here to benefit from ours.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

"Research suggests better management of people’s illness in the community and in GP surgeries could prevent some of these admissions".

So it doesn't seem to be a funding issue.

The quote says "prevent some". You have shown "some" is not a funding issue. What about the rest?

 

[Buzzer]

The money is there, it's just in the wrong places. For example corporate tax evasion alone stands at £35bn a year (up £3bn under this Tory government), more than a third of the NHS budget. Our foreign aid budget of £12bn can be decreased, considering more than £1bn a year is given to the likes of Nigeria, a country which is so corrupt that an estimated £5bn is stolen from its governments coffers in that same time.

It's avoidance - not evasion and the reason why the Government has to tread carefully around that area is that if you squeeze too hard, then corporations very easily up sticks to a low tax area and deprive the UK coffers of all the taxes they do pay.

As for decreasing foreign aid - why do you think it exists? I'll tell you - there's two reasons - one is altrusitic and provides help to countries where even the scantest of medical help is beyond the reach of most people or (as in the case of Nigeria) it's a sweetener to aid British business and by extension increase British tax revenue.

I'm shocked by your Little Englander attitude to foreign aid.

 

[Lord Bracknell]

I was supposed to have a minor op yesterday, but they cancelled it. Now they have sent a text message wondering why I didn't turn up.

If only they employed more clerical and admin staff, they could avoid these life-threatening administrative errors.

 

[Buzzer]

The quote says "prevent some". You have shown "some" is not a funding issue. What about the rest?

I don't know but the independent Nuffield report clearly shows that the idea of just increasing and increasing funding of NHS isn't the solution nor the inference from that, that freezing spending isn't necessarily the cause for the large rise.

You haven't commented on that bit where the Nuffield chairman said that constrained funding levels have not had a major impact. Any particular reason?

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

http://www.nursingtimes.net/nursing...oidable-admissions-swamps-nhs/5064169.article

"Nuffield Trust chief executive Andrew McKeon said: “Given constraints in resources for the NHS and social care in the next decade, a key concern must be the extent to which the gains made in improving quality of care over the past decade may be lost but despite recent high-profile failures and fears of deteriorating care standards, our research suggests that the constrained funding levels have so far not had a major impact on the overall quality of care received by patients and service users."

But the very same article suggests midway that appropriate caution should be used when interpreting these results as the full force of cuts have not been felt due to the lag in them affecting the front line.

"But they warned: “However, small comfort can be drawn from this, as the impact of the resource constraints is very likely to be subject to a time lag"

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I don't know but the independent Nuffield report clearly shows that the idea of just increasing and increasing funding of NHS isn't the solution nor the inference from that, that freezing spending isn't necessarily the cause for the large rise.

You haven't commented on that bit where the Nuffield chairman said that constrained funding levels have not had a major impact. Any particular reason?

I have just addressed your last point in the post above.

 

[Buzzer]

But the very same article suggests midway that appropriate caution should be used when interpreting these results as the full force of cuts have not been felt due to the lag in them affecting the front line.

"But they warned: “However, small comfort can be drawn from this, as the impact of the resource constraints is very likely to be subject to a time lag"

Oh I agree about the caution should be used when interpreting results. I just wish that you and the Guardian would exercise the same vigour when it comes to using statistics to bash the Tories. It ain't gonna happen though, is it?

 

[Buzzer]

I have just addressed your last point in the post above.

I saw

 

[HovaGirl]

If only they employed more clerical and admin staff, they could avoid these life-threatening administrative errors.

It's not life-threatening, obviously. But the left hand doesn't seem to know what the right hand is doing, and someone is wasting time sending texts which are of no use.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Oh I agree about the caution should be used when interpreting results. I just wish that you and the Guardian would exercise the same vigour when it comes to using statistics to bash the Tories. It ain't gonna happen though, is it?

Most know I'm a card carrying member of The Labour Party and Guardian reader so caution should also be used when listening to me

 

[Buzzer]

Most know I'm a card carrying member of The Labour Party and Guardian reader so caution should also be used when listening to me

I trust your music judgements implicitly though.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I trust your music judgements implicitly though.

Thank you. I must admit I saw the news headline, thought of the pun thread title and off I went; was not meant to be a serious post.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I trust your music judgements implicitly though.

An returning the sentiment I signed up to the Rough Trade album of the month club last week. Cheers for the tip

 

[Barrel of Fun]

Interesting that Cuba should be used as an example of a system.

I was offered a tour of Havant for $ 20 and the police immediately arrested the chap. When questioned why, the police explained that a doctor earns $30 a month (back in 2001) and this chap is pushing for that in a couple of hours. Their costs must be low.

However, I believe they lease out, or certainly used to, their doctors to make money.

It's all very affordable if the state control so much of the finance.