Problem with Question on ATC...

[hitony]

If I had seen the post on ATC I would have removed it, as Insider stated, ATC is not the section to have a rant about standing etc, use the main board for that.

 

[Knotty]

Even if everyone at the club from TB downwards were perfectly happy for us to stand, they can't be seen to be endorsing it.

How can they? It's illegal! They have no option but to say 'Don't stand,' no matter how many times they are asked or how many rants there are about it...even if they'd really like to say 'Please stand!'

 

[NS Herald]

In fairness to the insider, this is something that has been brought up time and time again, and if I were him I'd be getting bored with this line of questioning.

There are fans, one of whom seems to be you (I say this because you argue if the stand is full we should let them stand to create an atmosphere and if it's half empty we should... let them stand No - my point is the club seem to allow a full stand to do what they want but when a less that full stand has SOME people in it who wish to stand and are clearly not affecting anyone else the stewards step in - hardly consistant? ) who refuse to see the position the club is in, who dislike the law and so blame the enforcers Enforcers are not consistant , and those that will be punished if you break them.

There are, as has been stated again and again, rules and regulations in place. Often these do not allow for "common sense". The club have to act in accordance with these rules There should always be the ability to use their own common sense .

Stewards telling people to sit down is not bullying. Stewards constantly telling the same people to sit down is not bullying, targetting or harrassment, it is the fan not doing as asked, in accordance with the rules and regulations.

Sitting down, as fans are obliged to do by the rules and regulations is the answer to all these problems. Or perhaps people around them could tell then to sit down if it's a problem Stewards wouldn't need to congregate in "trouble areas", they wouldn't have to keep asking people to sit down, and so on, and everyone could enjoy the game.

Other than saying "there are rules and regulations we have to apply, if you sit down in accordance with them there should be no issue" is pretty much all paul can do, yet people raise the issue, again and again and just ignore thisExcept we are coming at this from both sides of the fence in the interest of home and away fans and are trying to sensibly discuss an emotive topic, the current solution for which does not contain common sense and perhaps if clubs all over the country went back to the rule makers and gave them relevant feedback from the fans - maybe the rules could be enforced in a less rigid way?.

Just a thought?

 

[Acker79]

(1)Enforcers are not consistant

(2)There should always be the ability to use their own common sense .

(3)Or perhaps people around them could tell then to sit down if it's a problem

(4)Except we are coming at this from both sides of the fence in the interest of home and away fans and are trying to sensibly discuss an emotive topic, the current solution for which does not contain common sense and perhaps if clubs all over the country went back to the rule makers and gave them relevant feedback from the fans - maybe the rules could be enforced in a less rigid way?.

Just a thought?

1) The complaint last year was that the away fans were never asked to sit down when the home fans were. We've had one home game so far, the stewards have asked the away fans to sit down, as they did the home fans.

How can you accuse them of being inconsistant already? Don't they deserve a chance to see if this consistent one rule for all is a new attitude this year?

2) I don't disagree that there should be room for common sense, but neither I nor you make the rules and regulations that the club are forced to follow without room for common sense.

3) Because it's scary for some fans (whether because of being old, or too young, or too meek) to ask a group of big boisterous, sometimes slightly inebriated, people to sit down? Because they've seen how little respect the standing fans have for people who's job it is to ask them to sit down? Because, as on here, the people who are stood frequently take the attitude "why don't you move elsewhere so I can selfishly view the match how I want regardless of how it affects other people?" Because the standing fans won't listen?

4) The question in the ATC section that this thread refers to was not trying to sensibly discuss anything, it was another reactionary "I want to stand" rant, and insider's reply was as much as he can do. He can't exactly lead a march on the FA and government to change the rules, all he can do is tell you the clubs position, and point you in the right direction for complaints.

 

[portlock seagull]

In fairness to the insider, this is something that has been brought up time and time again, and if I were him I'd be getting bored with this line of questioning.
.

Then he shouldn't put himself up as Insider. Or he really ought to try and sort something out with the club e.g. if it's a persistent problem that no satisfactory answer has been given to then keep asking it! Christ, it's not as if there's no case to answer that some stewards just love confrontation is it?!!!

 

[portlock seagull]

1) The complaint last year was that the away fans were never asked to sit down when the home fans were. We've had one home game so far, the stewards have asked the away fans to sit down, as they did the home fans.

How can you accuse them of being inconsistant already? Don't they deserve a chance to see if this consistent one rule for all is a new attitude this year?

2) I don't disagree that there should be room for common sense, but neither I nor you make the rules and regulations that the club are forced to follow without room for common sense.

3) Because it's scary for some fans (whether because of being old, or too young, or too meek) to ask a group of big boisterous, sometimes slightly inebriated, people to sit down? Because they've seen how little respect the standing fans have for people who's job it is to ask them to sit down? Because, as on here, the people who are stood frequently take the attitude "why don't you move elsewhere so I can selfishly view the match how I want regardless of how it affects other people?" Because the standing fans won't listen?

4) The question in the ATC section that this thread refers to was not trying to sensibly discuss anything, it was another reactionary "I want to stand" rant, and insider's reply was as much as he can do. He can't exactly lead a march on the FA and government to change the rules, all he can do is tell you the clubs position, and point you in the right direction for complaints.

Not German are you per chance? I mean, some of those lines are lifted straight out of the defence pleas at Nuremburg....."just followed orders (but I loved it!)"

 

[Richy_Seagull]

4) The question in the ATC section that this thread refers to was not trying to sensibly discuss anything, it was another reactionary "I want to stand" rant, and insider's reply was as much as he can do. He can't exactly lead a march on the FA and government to change the rules, all he can do is tell you the clubs position, and point you in the right direction for complaints.

Sorry, but I am struggling to see how you came to that conclusion? At Withdean, like all the other grounds I go to, I stand until either people behind me are sitting down and I am therefore blocking their view, or until a stewards tells me to. I don't bother arguing as I know it's not worth it. Yes, I prefer to stand up, but not so much to make a scene.

The point I was trying to make was that it seems that a minority of the stewards seem to almost welcome the confrontations, in the manner in which they patrol round the area and speak to people. Shouting lines as "You should be thanking us, there wouldn't be a match if we weren't here". Well yes, this is all good and true, but if anything shouting stuff like that at people is just going to get them more annoyed.

 

[Twizzle]

I thought Withdean was an all seater, and everyone is required to sit down?

The only complaint anyone can have then, is if people stand in front of them and the stewards do nothing. I don't like it when I go to a match and people persist in standing in front of me.

roll on Amex, anyway

 

[Acker79]

Sorry, but I am struggling to see how you came to that conclusion?

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Hi Insider.

Firstly, I understand there have been a large number of questions/complaints about the Withdean stewards before, however being the last season at Withdean I had hoped that there might have been at least a bit more leniency this season as the club try to attract fans for Falmer. Here you acknowledge that the issue has been raised time and time again, yet you feel the need to raise it again, and start with comments that indicate nothing has changed. If nothing has changed, why do you think the response would?

After the match against Rochdale my first plea is the give the away fans a break. Give them a break? They knew what they were in for, they knew the distance, they know the laws regarding all seater stadiums. Why exactly do they deserve a break? For christs sake It's language like this... they had just had a long journey down, are sitting 100 yards away from the pitch getting rained on and all I can see is a small minority AT THE BACK ...and "shouting" text like this that makes it seem like a rant of the stand, (ie – causing no harm to anyone else’s view) standing. The first hour of the match consisted of a huge gang of stewards forcing them to sit down every two minutes and language like this showing a lack of understanding of the clubs position, despit showin previous knowledge in your first paragraph, antagonising with talk of 'gangs' and 'forcing'. It’s just embarrassing to watch and suggesting applying the law as the club is required to do is "an embarrassment". At least give them a chance to create some sort of atmosphere after being charged £25 for the experience. a) why are we encouraging anything that helps our opponents (re atmosphere from the away fans) b) it doesn't matter how much someone pays. The law is the same. At Swindon the previous week we were standing for the whole game without any problems whatsoever. I know the power-crazy stewards are never going to let that go on here, but why do they go and create a problem when there is no problem there in the first place? this is the only question in the entire post, and it's one that you can't possibly expect insider to answer, so why post this thing there? If they were blocking others view etc then I could understand, but they weren’t, As insider explains, yes they were. People complained, and have been put off going to any further away games. and from an outside point of view it just seems there is a COMPLETE there's that shouty text again lack of common sense being shown. When the clubs hands are tied by the law, this is lack of common sense accusation is really offensive.

As for the usual bunch watching over H/J block I really think they could be driving potential fans away by being so over the top. As mentioned, I have given up on the hope that a certain section of fans could be allowed to stay standing, but when they are pinpointing out individuals who are two/three rows from the back with no-one behind them and forcing them to sit down it just comes across as bully tactics. Again, if people are complaining and having their view blocked fair enough, but please can they just try and show an iota of common sense for the rest of the season just to make the countdown to Falmer a bit more bearable! again, no question just more tired, old complaints that shows no appreciation for the fact the club have to apply the law (regardless of what you consider "common sense, which as insider pointed out has driven away some away fans), and that the fans have the power to stop stewards acting the way they do by simply sitting down as the law requires..

Thanks
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Do you now understand how I reached my conclusion?

 

[Richy_Seagull]

The question in the ATC section that this thread refers to was not trying to sensibly discuss anything, it was another reactionary "I want to stand" rant,At no point did I mention anything about me "wanting to stand". I was pointing out what I had observed while trying to watch the match on Saturday. and insider's reply was as much as he can do. He can't exactly lead a march on the FA and government to change the rules, all he can do is tell you the clubs position, and point you in the right direction for complaints.Not once did I complain about the response given by Insider

If you look on the first page of this thread I also said

"I did not intend to "rant" about it. Reading back I understand it may look like one, so sorry. I just do not understand why so many other grounds in the country where we go allow sections to stand (and it makes a massive difference to the atmosphere, whatever the club says about how you can sing etc sitting down) we seem to have the strictest set of stewards in the country, in what is the hardest place to create an atmosphere anyway."

I was just typing about what I had seen and should have used different language but I did not think it would all be taken all quite so literally as you obviously have.

At the end of the day, like eveyone else I am sick of Withdean, and the last two seasons it has been increasingly nagging me how much of the 90 minutes consists of watching Stewards rather than the football. Not saying they are to blame for that, but I will stick to my initial point that there are certain situations during the game, where they could perhaps give a little more leeway.