Pro-hunt demonstrators.
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SussexHoop
New member
- Dec 7, 2003
- 887
Going off at a tangent here but from what I recall, the miners strike was declared illegal because Arthur Scargill refused to ballot his members on taking strike action.
Had he done so and his members voted in favour of action, the strike would have been legal. Arthur Scargill refused to hold that ballot, Arthur Scargill said he would bring the Thatcher government down ... Arthur Scargill lost and the mining communities paid the price.
Had he done so and his members voted in favour of action, the strike would have been legal. Arthur Scargill refused to hold that ballot, Arthur Scargill said he would bring the Thatcher government down ... Arthur Scargill lost and the mining communities paid the price.
Zeitgeist
New member
3gulls said:
It's the arrogant countryside alliance supporters who appear to making it a class matter, forever harping on about "urban Labour MP's and their supporters" telling them what to do. Their sob story about thousands of rural dwellers losing their livlihood is bollocks. Compared to the jobs lost when the Thatcher government carved up the mining and steel industry, it's a drop in the ocean.
Gully
Monkey in a seagull suit.
I don't know how these countryside alliance people think they are going to change the way people vote at the next election, most Labour seats, as Zeitgeist points out, are in urban areas so there is little chance of them ousting sitting MP's with tales of woe from the countryside. My local MP is Labour and from what I understand he is doing an excellent job fighting for solutions to problems in our area, I cannot see how fox-hunting (or the end of it) could impact on urban Gloucester or on his chances of retaining his seat at the next election.
The areas where most hunting takes place, and where the impact will be hardest, are traditionally Tory held seats. Wise money is on the Tory vote being split at the next election with the UKIP, if the pro-hunting lobby get going too it could divide the right of centre vote even further. If anything the end to hunting could go some way to ensuring another Labour victory at the next election with the Tory party left licking its wounds and trying to regroup once again.
The areas where most hunting takes place, and where the impact will be hardest, are traditionally Tory held seats. Wise money is on the Tory vote being split at the next election with the UKIP, if the pro-hunting lobby get going too it could divide the right of centre vote even further. If anything the end to hunting could go some way to ensuring another Labour victory at the next election with the Tory party left licking its wounds and trying to regroup once again.
chip
Well-known member
I'm a rural, sometime Barbour wearing type. The rest of my family ride and we are also vegetarian. Sometimes, I drive a land rover pulling a horse box. I'm also pro-hunting but dont hunt.
I've also written letters, signed petitions and marched along the sea front. I've taken my children to Withdean and various other grounds around the country supporting BHA. Its nice read what some of you think about us on the basis of our past-times and the clothes we wear.
Likening hunters to football fans misses the point. It would have been better to liken them to the footballers. Most people seem to enjoy it when they have a bit agro on the pitch. As others have pointed out, some of your arguments against nicely mirror those of the anti-Famer camp.
I think we have become far to sentimental about animals, but very selectively. How may dead animals do you see at the side of a road but just accept it a part of your liberty to travel? How many of you, for example, only buy eggs from a source where you are sure the chickens are well kept? I bet most of you prefer to pay less and don't give a toss. Factory farming and the current slaughter methods are by far a worse evil, but as long as you get it cheap you don't care. What about Halal and Kosher - acceptable or not? People quite happily keep cats that slaughter indiscriminantly. My point is that on a scale of creulty hunting is pretty low-level, practised by a few and therefore easy prey.
If we are so concerned for animal welfare, when are we going to ban horse and dog racing, pigeon fancying, trapping, battery farming, fishing, keeping pets, milk production, etc.?
I've also written letters, signed petitions and marched along the sea front. I've taken my children to Withdean and various other grounds around the country supporting BHA. Its nice read what some of you think about us on the basis of our past-times and the clothes we wear.
Likening hunters to football fans misses the point. It would have been better to liken them to the footballers. Most people seem to enjoy it when they have a bit agro on the pitch. As others have pointed out, some of your arguments against nicely mirror those of the anti-Famer camp.
I think we have become far to sentimental about animals, but very selectively. How may dead animals do you see at the side of a road but just accept it a part of your liberty to travel? How many of you, for example, only buy eggs from a source where you are sure the chickens are well kept? I bet most of you prefer to pay less and don't give a toss. Factory farming and the current slaughter methods are by far a worse evil, but as long as you get it cheap you don't care. What about Halal and Kosher - acceptable or not? People quite happily keep cats that slaughter indiscriminantly. My point is that on a scale of creulty hunting is pretty low-level, practised by a few and therefore easy prey.
If we are so concerned for animal welfare, when are we going to ban horse and dog racing, pigeon fancying, trapping, battery farming, fishing, keeping pets, milk production, etc.?
Gully
Monkey in a seagull suit.
Chip, cats slaughter indiscriminantly, that is pretty true, they normally eat their prey, I would challenge the Beaufort Hunt to eat the next fox that they catch if that is sufficient argument to keep doing it.
chip
Well-known member
Gully, you know thats not true and when they do manage to swallow the sick it all up again on the middle of the kitchen floor.
My point is that its one very specific kind of hunting that has been banned. You can still trap squirells by their tails until they dehydrate or starve because they, like foxes, are classed as vermin. Similarly poisoning wild animals (as is often practised by DeFRA), the BSE and foot and mouth scandals have institutionally introduced far greater suffering and creulty than fox hunting. I would prefer a more logical and reasoned approach to animal welfare that applies consistently accross the board. I find it strange, e.g., that we can import products such as veal and fois gras which our own laws don't permit us to produce here as this does nothing but export a problem.
My point is that its one very specific kind of hunting that has been banned. You can still trap squirells by their tails until they dehydrate or starve because they, like foxes, are classed as vermin. Similarly poisoning wild animals (as is often practised by DeFRA), the BSE and foot and mouth scandals have institutionally introduced far greater suffering and creulty than fox hunting. I would prefer a more logical and reasoned approach to animal welfare that applies consistently accross the board. I find it strange, e.g., that we can import products such as veal and fois gras which our own laws don't permit us to produce here as this does nothing but export a problem.
Gully
Monkey in a seagull suit.
Chip, sorry if I appeared to be trivialising your point, that was certainly not my intention, I had a cat who regularly left the uneaten parts of his catch either in the kitchen or on the back porch.
I understand that the animal welfare issue is a major one and that far more than just hunting with dogs needs to be addressed, perhaps it is just that that is one of the more visible aspects and the easiest to target.
I know it isn't much but I have never eaten veal because of the cruel way that it is produced. On the subject of kosher and halal food, I suspect that this is considered to difficult a subject for any political party to target for risk of being accused of racial intolerence.
I understand that the animal welfare issue is a major one and that far more than just hunting with dogs needs to be addressed, perhaps it is just that that is one of the more visible aspects and the easiest to target.
I know it isn't much but I have never eaten veal because of the cruel way that it is produced. On the subject of kosher and halal food, I suspect that this is considered to difficult a subject for any political party to target for risk of being accused of racial intolerence.