Priest murdered while saying mass in French church nr Rouen

[Uncle Spielberg]

Unfortunately, they are a major reason that we are beset by these problems.

The hard line Islamists wanted the Caliphate long before Bush and Blair and if we will not go to them for this to happen, they will come to us, as indeed they have. This is just the very start I am afraid. The Horse has bolted

 

[BigGully]

Islamic State is a direct result of Bush and Blair.
They seem to be making good their promise of bringing the war to the west, instead of it being confined to the middle east.

In that case why do you/have you support/ed the unfettered migration from the middle east without ever acknowledging the inevitable risk and now subsequent crisis Europe is now experiencing ??

 

[spence]

Islamic State is a direct result of Bush and Blair.
They seem to be making good their promise of bringing the war to the west, instead of it being confined to the middle east.

Drivel

 

[daveinprague]

In that case why do you/have you support/ed the unfettered migration from the middle east without acknowledging the inevitable crisis Europe is now experiencing ??

I never have. Its always been assumed. I believe in reasonable controlled immigration, but nobody has ever asked before. The migration from the middle east is a direct consequence of war. A war we effectively initiated as far as IS is concerned. Should people fleeing from war not be offered safe havens?

 

[symyjym]

Was happening long before they came to power

Sent from my SM-A510F using Tapatalk

Yes but Bush and Blair gave them the extra incentive and new breeding ground. They acted like terrorists themselves in our name.

 

[daveinprague]

Drivel

Go on.

 

[sydney]

In that case why do you/have you support/ed the unfettered migration from the middle east without ever acknowledging the inevitable risk and now subsequent crisis Europe is now experiencing ??

cos he's full of old bollox basically.

 

[daveinprague]

cos he's full of old bollox basically.

From a champion, praise indeed.

 

[BigGully]

I never have. Its always been assumed. I believe in reasonable controlled immigration, but nobody has ever asked before. The migration from the middle east is a direct consequence of war. A war we effectively initiated as far as IS is concerned. Should people fleeing from war not be offered safe havens?

You become a refugee whilst you are fleeing from somewhere, if once you have fled and then decide to then ponder a preference to go somewhere in particular you become a migrant.

It has become a consequence of weak government and astonishingly poor judgement on policy that we are now at risk of harm from some that have travelled in historically high numbers unchecked from a vipers nest of a region that you yourself seem to now acknowledge but never have previously.

 

[carlzeiss]

Men who killed elderly priest in Normandy hostage crisis pledged allegiance to Isis

The terrorist group released a statement praising the men as 'soldiers of the Islamic State'

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...killed-hostages-hollande-terror-a7156496.html

 

[cunning fergus]

Maybe, unlike the extremists, the French have moved on a bit since 1871.

This may be the 5th French republic but it is still grounded in the revolutionary principles of 1789. Key to those principles was the overthrow of the clergy (the first estate). In the aftermath such was the revolutionary commitment for the eradication of religion that they created a new calendar and replaced Christian festivals with events like the festival of the supreme being. If you want to know what happens when the extremists get in control then try the French Revolution.

The French declaration of rights unlike the US equivalent is based in secular law......it is why the French Govt has been so aggressive in outlawing new developing religious practices that cut directly across these secular principles, e.g. face veils.

These are not principles that can be "moved on from" and whilst priests are not actively targeted for murder by revolutionaries it's still true to say that the French people (who revere their revolutionary heritage) are ambivalent to the church, if not actively hostile.

The murder of a priest by religious extremists will be bitter sweet.

 

[daveinprague]

You become a refugee whilst you are fleeing from somewhere, if once you have fled and then decide to then ponder a preference to go somewhere in particular you become a migrant.

It has become a consequence of weak government and astonishingly poor judgement on policy that we are now at risk of harm from some that have travelled in historically high numbers unchecked from a vipers nest of a region that you yourself seem to now acknowledge but never previously.

There are not unchecked. The problem is in the checking, but as you say, with historically high numbers, thats not going to be easy.

 

[Titanic]

The murder of a priest by religious extremists will be bitter sweet.

Sweet? What sort of sick *******s will find the slaughter of an 84-year-old man saying his prayers 'sweet'

 

[Wellesley]

These are not principles that can be "moved on from" and whilst priests are not actively targeted for murder by revolutionaries it's still true to say that the French people (who revere their revolutionary heritage) are ambivalent to the church, if not actively hostile.

Errr, so they HAVE moved on then. If you really think the average French person will see the slitting of an 84 year old priest's throat , by a terrorist ideology that has been murdering French citizens at will, as 'bitter sweet', then however educated you obviously are on French history, I feel safe in my conclusion that you are wrong.

 

[BBassic]

Drivel

Except it's literally true. By taking down the Taliban in their traditional strongholds a power vacuum was created and duly filled by none other than ISIS.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Except it's literally true. By taking down the Taliban in their traditional strongholds a power vacuum was created and duly filled by none other than ISIS.

The Taliban was in Afghanistan. Did you mean Al Qaeda? There are many extremist groups in the Middle East not all of them sympathetic to the Caliphate.

 

[daveinprague]

ISIS grew from ISIL, which was formed in Iraq by Zarkarwi after the invasion and subsequent, in their eyes, occupation.

 

[BBassic]

The Taliban was in Afghanistan. Did you mean Al Qaeda? There are many extremist groups in the Middle East not all of them sympathetic to the Caliphate.

Yeah possibly. We took out a bunch of nutbags in a country we shouldn't have been in and that paved the way for this new even nuttier group of nutbags.

 

[Wellesley]

Yeah possibly. We took out a bunch of nutbags in a country we shouldn't have been in and that paved the way for this new even nuttier group of nutbags.

Well if we can't kill them all, maybe we should just take out the Kernels.

 

[BBassic]

To be fair, if you want to go back further than Bush / Blair, this could probably be pinned on the crusades.

My history isn't great but pretty sure that was the Western world rucking up in the Middle East and claiming Holy sites for Christianity. Through the time honoured discipline of slaughter and violence. They've probably not liked us much since then.