[Politics] Presidential Debate - Trump v Biden

[Goldstone1976]

Presidential? Nope. Debate? Nope.

 

[Music City Gull]

With respect, please get off social media. I’m probably one of those “rednecks” that you’re callously referring to and this is a crap generalization and crap assumptions that those that don’t live in the south make. If southerners were as racist as you say you’d think most of the police shootings and riots would be in the southern states. Please, I’m asking you to be fair.


I don't know if you are a regular on this forum but there are a happy band on here who throw the words ' racist ' and ' fascist ' around about as many times as they draw breath. They do it so many times that the edges have become blurred and they don't stop to think as to whether they are being fair or not. Its the ' in ' thing in the UK at the moment to call anyone who differs from your point of view...a ' racist ' or a ' fascist ' They have become cheap throwaway words. Harsh and hurtful words in normal context but those barriers have sadly, been eroded. You are either a Left leaning, Brexit hating, Tory bashing, Trump deriding, intelligent citizen or you are a Right wing racist, fascist, xenophobic and unintelligent moron.
There is no fairness or moderation anymore. Everything is whipped up into a polarised frenzy. Young know best. Old are out of touch. White is mean and nasty. Black is down-trodden and oppressed. UK is finished. Europe is everything. Everyone is an expert and knows best. In truth, they haven't developed a rounded sense of tolerance and reason. Not their fault. They are products of an education system that was deliberately dumbed down, for two decades or more and was heavily influenced by left wing views and political correctness.
Time for breakfast. Think I'll have some Markle on Toast.

There is a ton to breakdown in your post, but in general in completely agree. I’ve read on here that Trump is a Hitler and Stalin and on areas of message boards that are more conservative that Trump is the greatest president ever. Even now I just got a BBC Sport notification that told me to meet the soccer player that left the US for Germany due to Trump and C19 (my wife is an ICU doctor working exclusively with C19 patients).

What I read on both spectrums of sports message boards is nothing like I experience in person. My black neighbor and I have exchanged numbers in case a Nashville riot gets out of hand and we need help if it gets close. When I left my job working for the second most diverse county in the country to go to grad school I was thrown a party where there are pics where I am the only white person in the picture.

The only county I’ve lived in where I’m not a minority was for two years in grad school. Not once have I had a racial argument and not once have I had a political argument. Nobody wants to say this for some reason, but the division in this country is socio-economic wnd not racial. And can’t tell you how many seltzer’s I’ve had and how many folks have put me on ignore as a racist so I should probably leave this thread alone.

 

[Lenny Rider]

Wasn't there one of the Kennedy family knocking about somewhere rather than Biden?

Having watched clips this morning the US could be heading for some kind of Civil War in the next 5 years.

What if the vote is really tight and the respective loser doesn't accept the result?

 

[Berty23]

Whatever happens I think we can all agree that America is screwed. Why are the results of the elections and what happens?

Trump wins - he will feel empowered to get far harsher about everything and start pushing for third term. He has not denied this and his ex staffers have said that if we think this is bad then wait to see what he has planned

Biden wins - trump refuses to leave office and says a rigged election etc and his supporters take to the streets. A full on civil war is possible.

Does anyone think Biden can win and there will not be violence?

As for the democrats not finding anyone better? I agree. It is nuts.

 

[The Clamp]

With respect, please get off social media. I’m probably one of those “rednecks” that you’re callously referring to and this is a crap generalization and crap assumptions that those that don’t live in the south make. If southerners were as racist as you say you’d think most of the police shootings and riots would be in the southern states. Please, I’m asking you to be fair.

View attachment 128907

Where in the post you quoted have I used the term redneck? Where have I mentioned the south or southern states? Strange tangent you’ve taken. You have taken exception to something that simply isn’t there. Please read posts properly before you order me off social media.

FYI, the line “get off social media doesn’t help your argument

I know a few of the southern states and cities and am not of the impression it’s all “rednecks”. ********s and good people are spread across the US, as they are in any country.





Have a nice day y’all.

 

[Kalimantan Gull]

In 8 years they've 'found' Hilary Clinton and Joe Biden.

8 years.
Eight years.
EIGHT YEARS.
Nearly a decade.
416 ish weeks
96 months.
2580 days.

The Albion were still playing at Withdean when they knew Obama was leaving office and they needed a votable candidate.


In all that time, out of 350m people, the democratic party have Seemingly found the only 2 people in America who can lose an election to Trump.

To do it once is unlucky.
To do it twice is planned.

Biden won the nomination precisely because he was the most surefire bet to beat Trump. That's all that matters for most people now, making sure he would lose. There were better candidates but they would have been riskier.

 

[Kalimantan Gull]

What a shambles. The moderator is doing his best but you have Trump talking over both of them. Was good to see him getting told to stop interrupting. Trump supporters will love him for his rudeness.
Listening to Biden is like visiting a retirement home. He’s no match for a narcissistic bully like Trump in this setting.
And yes, there needs to be real time fact checking and Trump need to be pulled up in his outright lies.

Actually the thing Trump supporters dislike the most about Trump is his rudeness. The conservative 'soccer mom types in the suburbs are hugely turned off by this, and those are the people he needs to win again in November.

The base will get fired up, but they always do. This isn't a 'base' election unlike 2016. The most that firing up the base will do is stop a Biden landslide

 

[el punal]

It’s so, so, so depressing that in 2020 the US still only has the choice of two, old, white, men talking over each other . We are ****ing doomed.

My nephew would be a better choice. And this is a kid I once found taken a shit in the fridge.

After the appointment of Hillary Clinton as the Democratic candidate, and the debacle that followed it, you would have thought that the Dems would come up with a more inspirational choice to fight the Orange Oaf?

 

[highflyer]

Does anyone think Biden can win and there will not be violence?

Yes. Me.

Of course Biden is stunningly uninspiring. Of course the Democrats could have done better. And in future I suspect they will.

But I believe he'll still win. And win comfortably enough that any kicking and screaming by Trump will not be taken seriously by any of those that matter (the people that will be in charge once the results are in). He'll go and I suspect he'll go without a real fight (although with a lot of noise).

And I believe that when he goes, his noisiest supporters on the ground will mostly melt away. They are only brave because they know that Trump has their back, because they feel protected. Without that protection they will retire, muttering, to their day to day lives.

And the vast majority of decent (if somewhat limited in terms of worldview) citizens in the US, who are not reflected in the images we get on our televisions and socal media channels will carry on living their lives, trying to get by as best they can, in a country which could be so much more than it is. A country which leaves the poor and the working class little space to think beyond their immediate neighbourhoods and immediate future.

Trump has been a distraction, a blip, in the true story of the USA, which I think is just one of long, slow decline.
.

 

[Stat Brother]

Biden won the nomination precisely because he was the most surefire bet to beat Trump. That's all that matters for most people now, making sure he would lose. There were better candidates but they would have been riskier.

Biden was completely out of contention through the initial primaries.
He was all but written off as a bumbling old fool with questionable hands (and nose)

When the roadshow got to South Carolina (?) he had one last swing and amazingly got a perfect connection while everyone else was striking out.

Since then he's reverted back to type while everyone else shot themselves in the foot.


None of the other candidates were any better, they all had massive failings Donny T could exploit, so in the end the Democrats selected the old white guy, who's a bit handsy.

 

[Mellotron]

Initial polling suggest that undecideds moved towards Biden 3x more than to Trump. Not a big surprise particularly.

I won't pretend for a second it was a "stunning" performance by Biden, he came across more as a kindly Grandad becoming increasingly frustrated by his 6 year old Grandson who ****s everything up and then tries to lie his way out of it.

 

[beorhthelm]

None of the other candidates were any better, they all had massive failings Donny T could exploit, so in the end the Democrats selected the old white guy, who's a bit handsy.

as i recall, their failings werent all that big. the primary process seems to put undue attention on candidates personally, exposing and amplifying tiny flaws without a lot on policy (because they all have broadly the same policy). then the main election goes more on policy, where theres a clear blue/red set of principles to argue and minor flaws remain mnior. least worst party candidates fight out for biggest job in the world, its odd.

 

[Guinness Boy]

If you read through the thread you’ll see I completely agree. I just so happen to have grown up and live in a very diverse area where most of us think it’s funny how much hatred social media thinks we have with each other.

Imagine, getting a few Bobs Your Uncle and cheering on the Titans together! (I’m currently in an argument with me Chelsea supporting neighbor)!

View attachment 128908

View attachment 128909

That's my kinda weekend!

 

[Kalimantan Gull]

Biden was completely out of contention through the initial primaries.
He was all but written off as a bumbling old fool with questionable hands (and nose)

When the roadshow got to South Carolina (?) he had one last swing and amazingly got a perfect connection while everyone else was striking out.

Since then he's reverted back to type while everyone else shot themselves in the foot.


None of the other candidates were any better, they all had massive failings Donny T could exploit, so in the end the Democrats selected the old white guy, who's a bit handsy.

I *think* that's a different way of saying the same thing as me

I like Biden. If the Democrats had done this better he would be running for re-election now, possibly losing but the world would have been spared Trump.

You mentioned his 'handsy' - ness twice, so I guess worthy to discuss - we can all have different opinions on this but as he's shown remorse and willingness to learn, I tend to offer forgiveness to an older bloke on this, as do most of the women involved. I'd really be amazed if there wasnt a single man on this board who wasn't similarly guilty, but he's the one in the spotlight.

"In the course of the 2020 presidential campaign, a few women came forward and said that Biden has touched or greeted them in a way they considered to be too intimate, such as hugs, shoulder rubs, and kisses on the cheek, which in turn made them feel uncomfortable; Biden has not disputed these allegations, and has stated that he will be more "mindful of people's personal space" in the future. None of these women who came forward accused Biden of sexual assault or harassment, and instead characterized his form of touching as a matter of poor judgment, tone-deafness, and a lack of professionalism on Biden's part"

(Tara Reade's allegations have been widely discredited and she has been exposed as a serial liar)

 

[Stat Brother]

as i recall, their failings werent all that big. the primary process seems to put undue attention on candidates personally, exposing and amplifying tiny flaws without a lot on policy (because they all have broadly the same policy). then the main election goes more on policy, where theres a clear blue/red set of principles to argue and minor flaws remain mnior. least worst party candidates fight out for biggest job in the world, its odd.

Sanders and Warren - NEVER and twice never on Sunday's.
The billionaire fella Warren eviscerated in 30 secs.

I can't even remember the rest of the no mark stuffed shirts, not that I should, but it proves they weren't exactly 'statesmanlike' and Presidential.


All Biden had to be was coherent for 1 debate, and he was, as low bars go ...

 

[getreal1]

Not a good look for democracy. Terrible from both of them.

 

[Dick Head]

Agreed, but if you’ve followed the Comey saga that line can become grayed (is that a word?) due to political power. It’s not that cut and dry. People can agree with it or not but the FBI absolutely changed their view on spying on Trump after an Oval Office meeting with Obama and Biden.

FWIW, I don’t think we are disagreeing.

No, it's 'greyed'.

 

[zefarelly]

I *think* that's a different way of saying the same thing as me

I like Biden. If the Democrats had done this better he would be running for re-election now, possibly losing but the world would have been spared Trump.

You mentioned his 'handsy' - ness twice, so I guess worthy to discuss - we can all have different opinions on this but as he's shown remorse and willingness to learn, I tend to offer forgiveness to an older bloke on this, as do most of the women involved. I'd really be amazed if there wasnt a single man on this board who wasn't similarly guilty, but he's the one in the spotlight.

"In the course of the 2020 presidential campaign, a few women came forward and said that Biden has touched or greeted them in a way they considered to be too intimate, such as hugs, shoulder rubs, and kisses on the cheek, which in turn made them feel uncomfortable; Biden has not disputed these allegations, and has stated that he will be more "mindful of people's personal space" in the future. None of these women who came forward accused Biden of sexual assault or harassment, and instead characterized his form of touching as a matter of poor judgment, tone-deafness, and a lack of professionalism on Biden's part"

(Tara Reade's allegations have been widely discredited and she has been exposed as a serial liar)

Nothing like Trumps greeting method toward women then.

 

[Hotchilidog]

Sanders and Warren - NEVER and twice never on Sunday's.
The billionaire fella Warren eviscerated in 30 secs.

I can't even remember the rest of the no mark stuffed shirts, not that I should, but it proves they weren't exactly 'statesmanlike' and Presidential.


All Biden had to be was coherent for 1 debate, and he was, as low bars go ...

Sanders was consistently miles ahead of Trump in the polls he lost the nomination because the DNC rigged primaries for the second time in a row.
Biden was the establishment candidate and they made sure they got their man in.

That said, the candidate is now Biden and he represents a return to some semblance of conventional politics, the dull candidate that country needs now to regain its international reputation. I hope he wins and I hope he wins big. The key for progressives is to win the House and Senate battles and keep up the pressure on policy within the party.

Whilst I understand the frustration of some Sanders supporters with Biden, any that vote 3rd party or abstain will only be aiding Trump and that is unforgivable in my view.

 

[highflyer]

Nothing like Trumps greeting method toward women then.

Trump is literally on record boasting about 'grabbing women by the pussy'.

So a bit different maybe.

Not that it'll probably make much difference (although it does seem that the majority of potential Rupublican voters he is losing in swing states are women...so maybe it is finally having some effect)