[Politics] Presidential Debate - Trump v Biden

[Juan Albion]

I’ll also add I am a member of a pretty popular college football message board, and they tend to lean conservative. They’re pissed at how bad Trump did tonight. Which is saying something considering they’re Trump supporters.

I imagine they knew he was lying (shock!) when he said it was him who got football back.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

Certainly a redeeming feature.

Out of interest, would you be voting for Trump or Biden in this election?

Neither.

That's what I likw most about the US system. You're not forced to vote. Votes have to be earned, not forced into going to the ballot box.

 

[BadFish]

I’ll also add I am a member of a pretty popular college football message board, and they tend to lean conservative. They’re pissed at how bad Trump did tonight. Which is saying something considering they’re Trump supporters.

That is interesting.

What are thing they are disappointed with?

 

[Juan Albion]

Neither.

That's what I likw most about the US system. You're not forced to vote. Votes have to be earned, not forced into going to the ballot box.

That's true in most countries outside Australia.

 

[BadFish]

I'd say under this presidency a lot of organisations and systems people were supposed to be able to trust in have been exposed.

The distrust of all politicians in the US would have to be at an all time low now that the facade of being fair has been thrown off.

The fact so many people still can't bring themselves to vote for the Democrats despite Trump being on the other side shows how rotten to the core US politics is.

That's interesting, can you give some examples of what they are and how Trump has exposed them?

The stuff you talk about regarding the 'war machine' has been exposed for many years but the likes of Joh Pilger and Michael Moore, among others.

 

[Juan Albion]

Trump achieved this tonight.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

Such as?

The FBI has been exposed for it's corruption and unlawful acitvities.

https://time.com/magazine/us/5264136/may-14th-2018-vol-191-no-18-u-s/

 

[Juan Albion]

The FBI has been exposed for it's corruption.

I think you've read too much BS somewhere. Every organization has a few bad apples, but the FBI employs 35,000 people and the vast majority haven't been shown to be corrupt at all.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

That's interesting, can you give some examples of what they are and how Trump has exposed them?

The stuff you talk about regarding the 'war machine' has been exposed for many years but the likes of Joh Pilger and Michael Moore, among others.

@%1;

As just mentioned, the FBI has been exposed big time during this Presidency,

Media outlets have been exposed on all sides of the spectrum to the point where it's being held in such scepticism anytime they put out a story.

 

[Music City Gull]

I imagine they knew he was lying (shock!) when he said it was him who got football back.

Maybe so but, with respect, I’m not looking to getting into a dogging of candidates that will push this pretty good thread into the bear pit. I will say Jordan Peterson’s theory on why Trump beat Hillary makes as much sense as anything else. He said people voted for the person that was bad at lying so we at least we knew what the lie was. I hate to say a Trump saying, but if you don’t think Biden (and Hillary) aren’t DC “swamp creatures” then you’re very mistaken.

This wasn’t a good night for my country. Not because Trump lost, but because they both looked horrible.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

I think you've read too much BS somewhere. Every organization has a few bad apples, but the FBI employs 35,000 people and the vast majority haven't been shown to be corrupt at all.

Or are you not reading enough?

In the last few years the FBI has been illegally spying on private citizens to the tune of tens of thousands of unauthorised searches.

Just to put it into perspective:

The declassified FISA court ruling revealed that the FBI is the most prolific miner of data about “U.S. persons,” a legal term that means any U.S. citizen or foreign national legally in the country. Queries of this data are known as “backdoor searches.” In 2017, the FBI ran approximately 3.1 million searches related to U.S. persons, compared to 7,500 combined searches by the CIA and NSA during the same year.

https://theintercept.com/2019/10/10/fbi-nsa-mass-surveillance-abuse/

On that scale do you think it's only a few that are undertaking illegal activity?

 

[Blue3]

I decided to watch a bit of CNN news after the debate boy how biased was the reporting strikes me how lucky we are to have the BBC

 

[Klaas]

In a previous life I worked behind the scenes in Georgia statewide politics - until I realized it was futile and I hated it all. Speaking to a few friends (including a current state senator and a unelected top 3 staffer to the current governor) Trump needed to win the independent and suburban mom’s vote tonight. Those voters are generally conservative and don’t like Trump. According to the people I chatted with during the debate they candidly say he didn’t do any of that, seemed angry and didn’t offer much constructive.

As is natural in politics, many former hard red states are now purple.a slight nudge puts those states to Biden and make it an easy victory. Trump pushed them that way tonight. He was very cunning against a lazy Hillary campaign and that won’t happen this time. Bloomberg bought up literally every second of Florida tv time and gifted it all to Biden so they can focus their resources elsewhere and Trump can’t do much there. It’s shaping up to be a bloodbath.

People will celebrate until they realize the guy they voted is also absolutely nobody to be excited about. I genuinely might become a hermit until after the election. This is all depressing me (and not because Trump lost).

Thanks for the insight.

 

[Music City Gull]

I decided to watch a bit of CNN news after the debate boy how biased was the reporting strikes me how lucky we are to have the BBC

How is the Telegraph? I get a daily news email from the BBC (not BBC America) and The Telegraph (because I first liked their soccer coverage). I’ve literally avoided all American news for 3-4 years that wasn’t what my wife had on while I was trying to scramble out of the room. News is a weird conundrum for me because I don’t think capitalism is a good model for it. Ratings does not equal truth and accuracy. But I also don’t think state run media can be fairly critical of those in charge of it.

 

[Music City Gull]

Or are you not reading enough?

In the last few years the FBI has been illegally spying on private citizens to the tune of tens of thousands of unauthorised searches.

Just to put it into perspective:



https://theintercept.com/2019/10/10/fbi-nsa-mass-surveillance-abuse/

On that scale do you think it's only a few that are undertaking illegal activity?

It might be the seltzer’s talking so I might delete this as I might be revealing too much about myself. Before I was born my mom was a Russian translator for the NSA. My aunt retired from the NSA in 2010 after over 40 years with the agency. 4 of my 7 cousins work for the NSA or NSA contractors. There’s still stuff my mom can’t tell me, and I still have shirts and stuff in Russian I wore as a kid when my mom would go to places on her work trips.

I say that to say they openly admit what might have killed what the US was the Patriot Act passed and pushed by Bush as a response to 9/11. The hard line of agencies spying on US citizens turned gray. The line became much blurrier with the technology boom and during the Obama administration. It hasn’t really increased under Trump.

In an attempt to prove I’m not trolling here is a picture of a Pravda newspaper my mom has kept

 

[BadFish]

@%1;

As just mentioned, the FBI has been exposed big time during this Presidency,

Media outlets have been exposed on all sides of the spectrum to the point where it's being held in such scepticism anytime they put out a story.

I will read your link about the FBI.

Surely Trump can't claim to have exposed the bias of the media, this has been going on since time immemorial. I guess he can be credited for highlighting it while trying to use it for his advantage but if someone needed Trump to tell them that media outlets are biased they really are some sort of fool.

I think our definition of 'a lot of organisations and systems' differs.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

It might be the seltzer’s talking so I might delete this as I might be revealing too much about myself. Before I was born my mom was a Russian translator for the NSA. My aunt retired from the NSA in 2010 after over 40 years with the agency. 4 of my 7 cousins work for the NSA or NSA contractors. There’s still stuff my mom can’t tell me, and I still have shirts and stuff in Russian I wore as a kid when my mom would go to places on her work trips.

I say that to say they openly admit what might have killed what the US was the Patriot Act passed and pushed by Bush as a response to 9/11. The hard line of agencies spying on US citizens turned gray. The line became much blurrier with the technology boom and during the Obama administration. It hasn’t really increased under Trump.

A judge has ruled though recently that the act only goes so far as covering spying on potential terrorists and their activities. It doesn't mean they can spy on private citizens without any evidence or just cause.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

I will read your link about the FBI.

Surely Trump can't claim to have exposed the bias of the media, this has been going on since time immemorial. I guess he can be credited for highlighting it while trying to use it for his advantage but if someone needed Trump to tell them that media outlets are biased they really are some sort of fool.

Trump exposed the lengths they would go to push a lie.

There's so many independent contents producers out there that have highlighted that "experts" for an example used by major outlets are actually more like paid actors and shills for big companies.

People were aware of a basic left/right wing bias in media but now they are being exposed for far more than that. There was a great example of such a thing when I think it was CNN brought on an "expert" in regards to something to do with pulling out of a conflict and when these independent people examined it more they found he was on the payroll of some arms company.

It's only now with technology available to track down such things that people are more aware of the skulduggery going on in the media and framed as factual information.

 

[Music City Gull]

A judge has ruled though recently that the act only goes so far as covering spying on potential terrorists and their activities. It doesn't mean they can spy on private citizens without any evidence or just cause.

Agreed, but if you’ve followed the Comey saga that line can become grayed (is that a word?) due to political power. It’s not that cut and dry. People can agree with it or not but the FBI absolutely changed their view on spying on Trump after an Oval Office meeting with Obama and Biden.

FWIW, I don’t think we are disagreeing.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

Agreed, but if you’ve followed the Comey saga that line can become grayed (is that a word?) due to political power. It’s not that cut and dry. People can agree with it or not but the FBI absolutely changed their view on spying on Trump after an Oval Office meeting with Obama and Biden.

FWIW, I don’t think we are disagreeing.

That's where FISA was supposed to be the bulwark against such corruption and political motivated activities. It failed in its duties.

No disagreement from me. Goes far deeper than where Trump is involved or has power over.