[Football] Premier League - Project Big Picture

[Arkwright]

If the concern is too much football for those playing Champions league or Europa league why not let the top six start a elite European league and leave the English league to the rest of us.
Let's be honest the top six have wanted to form a proper Champions league for years thinking they will cream all the TV money but Sky or someone else will still what to screen a competitive English league with or without them.
They don't care about the romance of the game, Leicester winning the Premier having been a Championship side, Wimbledon coming from Istmian League to top flight or Brighton from "Half time at Hereford" to today.
If they want to be elite let them go.

 

[El Presidente]

@El Pres will be measured and diplomatic (making no enemies with the clubs).

Not conducive to NSC outrage.

Available from 2am

https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/the-price-of-football/id1482886394

The only person to publicly support it to date is former Liverpool & present EFL big cheese Rick Parry who thinks that

1: Sending 2 EFL clubs out of the league as 92 becomes 90.
2: Reducing the number of EFL championship clubs in the playoffs from 4 to 3
3: Abolishing the EFL Cup
4: Allowing PL clubs to send up to 270 players on loan to the EFL (and therefore reducing the number of EFL developed players)

...is a great deal for the EFL.

 

[clapham_gull]

maybe my miss-reading, but seems this isnt from the Premier League, its from the Football League and a couple of Premier League clubs.

Yes, but I'd imagine more than two clubs.

As from the "Football League" it appears to be led by Rick Parry, his old employees at Liverpool and their simiiarly shirted neighbours.

On the surface looks like he's attempting to save his own league by drawing on the greed of a few members of another and throwing the rest under a bus.

He's been caught out and I'd imagine be looking for another job quite soon.

 

[Baldseagull]

Here is a little more of Mr Parry's thoughts as reported here https://www.manchestereveningnews.c...efl-chairman-warns-manchester-united-19086883


“It’s all about the supply of money,” he continued.

“The money goes to the players and less money will go to the same group of players.

“I don’t think, for example, Brighton’s squad will be any different. It means Brighton’s players will be earning a bit less.”

 

[drew]

It is clearly a power grab by the big 6 who I'm sure are in on it although it is seemingly being proposed by Liverpool and Man Utd. The 'bribe' to the EFL is immaterial because the EFL don't get to vote on it. To get this through they will need 14 clubs to agree to the changes.

Another point is that this seems once again to be aiming towards the European super league so I'm guessing the likes of Bayern, Real Madrid, Barcelona, PSG et al have all had some input to this and will be doing the same to their respective leagues.

Surely the solution should be that 14 non big 6 should propose to chuck the big 6 out with effect from next season. Wouldn't that be great.

 

[drew]

My gut instinct is to be suspicious. Of course it would suit those deemed above the line to be forever protected in a league from which they cannot be (or are very unlikely to be) relegated.

However I am not one to accept anything on face value, and prefer to be a tedious old bore and examine the facts (if known).

For this proposal to happen the EPL clubs will need to sign up to it using current rules. That means quite a lot of them voting for it. To vote for it they would need to see it as beneficial to them (turkeys don't vote for Christmas). That means more income in the longer term and security of income in the longer term. This means that if the majority support it they see the protected EPL benefitting their club in the long term.

For that to happen the public will need to buy into it, surely? They are the punters paying for the game.

This is where I start getting perplexed. Every post on this thread is against this. If the majority of EPL club fans (not to mention the rest of football's fans) oppose this, how come the majority of EPL clubs have calculated this will be to their benefit? I guess they have calculated that you only need a few million casual viewers on the telly to compensate for the loss of 20-75 thousand passionate paying fans in stadia (we can argue what % in the seats at Old Trafford or The Amex are true fans or part of the wider contingent of casual fans, but that's neither here nor there).

Let's imagine the EPL majority of clubs' (including BHA) calculation is correct. The Albion (if lucky to remain in the EPL) and clubs like Everton and Southampton jettison their die hard fans and get their income from TV, and cater for casual fans only. Is this really going to work?

Not at Brighton if the posts on this thread are representative. We don't have millions of casual fans. Would the millions of casual Liverpool fans tune in to watch them smash us into oblivion? Could the EPL sustain with an elite few who smash up the poorer small clubs every week? Isn't this how the Spanish league works? Is the Spanish league sustainable?

I suppose the bottom line is that if there are millions of casual fans willing to pay to watch 'their' teams on Sky, smashing the likes of us every week, and this is financially stable in the long term, it could 'work' (i.e., be financially viable, like the Spanish league apparently is). Passionate fans like folk on NSC would, of course, walk away. By definition we would be in the minority, like those 'Unite of Manchester' fans who stopped following ManU when the Glazers took over (or earlier?). An 'expendible' minority, by definition, if the EPL clubs' calculations are correct.

Like everone else on NSC I'd hate it. Right now, despite the wealth of Man U, Citeh, Chelsea and Liverpool, we still have a chance. Or do we? Do we really have a chance? Have we ever really had a chance? Has it ever been different?

All through my life there has been a top flight elite. The names have changed (ManU, City, Everton, Liverpool, Leeds, Chelsea, Arsenal, Villa) but it has always been a slowly rotating tiny group of clubs winning the bulk of everything, poaching the best players, with only temporary intrusion by the likes of Forest and Leicester. How much would 'hope' (of trophy success) for Brighton (or Villa or Newcastle, or Palace) be affected by the proposed changes?

I don't know. As a Brighton supporter I'd like to know. As a lover of wider football, I already know - there would be no chance of the likes of Tranmere or Derby County ever reaching the level of the elite again. That said it is not unreasonable for current EPL elite clubs to ask 'what chance do you think you have, realistically, of rising to the top with the current arrangements?'. A tough question to answer honestly.

Hope. Even when Brighton were a perpetual div 3 team when I started going I had hope (that somehow we'd get lucky with players and managers and rise up the divisions). If someone told me Brighton would never ever get out of division 3, I wonder if I'd have started going? What's the point if there is no hope? It looks like the proposals will remove hope from lower tier clubs. Maybe I'm unusual and maybe most folk are happy just to watch their local team come what may. If so there will be little substantial opposition to the proposals (why oppose somethig that doesn't really matter?).

Perhaps for the elite it boils down to a calculation that football on TV does work, even without real crowds. People are tuning in. However this won't work for smaller clubs (especially outside the EPL) if crowds can't return. So EPL clubs could protect themselves by a power grab. In the short term the other clubs will be compensated but in the long term every club below the elite will have to restructure: lose the big salaries (even in tier 3 there are plenty earning multiple tens of thousands of pounds a year; Jamie Moralee was on more than a grand a week with us - twice my salary at the time - in tier 4). That would all have to go.

So I am all for fighting this. But how? Simply not watching the Albion any more isn't the answer.

Boring tedious post over. El Pres will shed the real light on this.

I might have missed something but where has it been reported that the other 14 clubs are in support of this proposal?

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

And what happens in the following season when there's a motion that 90% of the PL income will go to the top nine clubs and the other nine share 10%? The Big Six clubs all vote for the motion and the following season, the rest of the PL have to work out how to pay £90m of wages with an income of £10m.

Any PL club that voted for this, outside the Big Six, would be stark raving bonkers IMO

Let's hope so.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

I might have missed something but where has it been reported that the other 14 clubs are in support of this proposal?

I don't know that they are.

I think it said on the radio that Ricky Parry is in support.

Anyway, hopefully they aren't and it will all blow over.

 

[beorhthelm]

Available from 2am

https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/the-price-of-football/id1482886394

The only person to publicly support it to date is former Liverpool & present EFL big cheese Rick Parry who thinks that

1: Sending 2 EFL clubs out of the league as 92 becomes 90.
2: Reducing the number of EFL championship clubs in the playoffs from 4 to 3
3: Abolishing the EFL Cup
4: Allowing PL clubs to send up to 270 players on loan to the EFL (and therefore reducing the number of EFL developed players)

...is a great deal for the EFL.

kite-flying isnt it? even clubs supposedly in favour can distance themselves tomorrow, some ideas not entirely rejected can be incorporated into upcoming deals.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Available from 2am

https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/the-price-of-football/id1482886394

The only person to publicly support it to date is former Liverpool & present EFL big cheese Rick Parry who thinks that

1: Sending 2 EFL clubs out of the league as 92 becomes 90.
2: Reducing the number of EFL championship clubs in the playoffs from 4 to 3
3: Abolishing the EFL Cup
4: Allowing PL clubs to send up to 270 players on loan to the EFL (and therefore reducing the number of EFL developed players)

...is a great deal for the EFL.

So we have had a quite horrible splenic thread on the basis of nothing?

NSC at its worst

 

[drew]

I don't know that they are.

I think it said on the radio that Ricky Parry is in support.

Anyway, hopefully they aren't and it will all blow over.

Well that's what I thought but in your post you kept referring to EPL rather than EFL.

At least we seem to be on the same page now.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Well that's what I thought but in your post you kept referring to EPL rather than EFL.

At least we seem to be on the same page now.

Fat finger? Probably fat brain

I have nodded in agreement at several of your posts today.

In the mean time....I suspect a lot of us have fallen for the old Sun trick of calling a labour council office at 4.30 on a Friday afternoon and asking the temp for a comment on the 'fact' that the council have banned Baa Baa Black Sheep. Flustered temp would say "Er, I'm sure the decision, er, was ratified at, er a meeting" and Bob Monkhouse is your man from uncle: the next dat the Sun headline would be "Loony lefties ban Baa Baa Blacksheep", when they never did at all.

What a swizz!

Nighty night

 

[BadFish]

Set up your european super league and **** right off, then keep ****ing off and when you think you've ****ed off enough, **** off some more.

Leave the rest of us to create a sustainable and sensible English league system with fan-owned clubs (at least a percentage), sensible salary caps and spending limits and fan orientated decisions.

Make the ******** pay a premium for the players that we produce and then share the money across all clubs (the lions share going to the clubs that produced them.

That would be a football family.

Won't happen of course but we can dream.

 

[e77]

If you look at other closed shop leagues (i.e. with no relegation) they tend to be able to have a draft as they are by far the biggest league in their sport and have their pick of the players, such as MLB, NBA or NFL or have there own window and can sign players non exclusively such as the IPL or BBL. They also have a salary cap to help competitiveness.

Without struggling teams being able to get their pick of upcoming players and unable to compete with the bigger team financially there is a danger of zombie clubs who are basically there to make up the numbers.

I don't think a closed shop Premier League would work for this reason. At the moment if you have a bad year you are in the Championship with a chance to rebuild. In the not too distant past Leicester and Southampton have done this (as have us and Leeds but we spent a long time out!) as opposed to wither and die at the bottom of the league.

European League would also need to merge the various ownership models and approaches round Europe.

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

The proposals also rewrite the Premier League’s 20-club democracy in favour of placing huge power in the hands of the nine clubs with the longest continual stay in the division. As things stand that is the big six, as well as Everton, Southampton and West Ham. Those nine clubs afforded “long-term shareholder status” would have unprecedented power, with the votes of just six of them required to make sweeping changes. These clubs would even be able to veto a new owner taking over a rival club.

How would this get approved?

Why 9 ?

Make it 14 as albion are 13th= with Newcastle and I am all in. Lol.

 

[beorhthelm]

So we have had a quite horrible splenic thread on the basis of nothing?

NSC at its worst

well its on the basis of the selective reporting of the media, they certainly made a lot of the Premier League and Liverpool in headlines. only a couple in the detail made reference to Premier League explicitly not being the source and against the proposal. looks like one journo got the story the others all piled in without any checks.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

I'd wager that the '9' comes with a 'two-thirds voting majority' clause so that the Big 6 can ditch the 3 stooges any time down the line it suits them

 

[Hamilton]

Non league football gets more and more appealing by the day.

This.

I am very close to chucking my season ticket and following Lewes.

I will watch with interest how Tony responds. I still have faith in him.


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[nicko31]

An absolute disgrace quite frankly. We’ll save those poor little English peasant clubs but only for our own gain.

Under the chaos of covid a power grab, and yes and now people are trying it in football too.

 

[dwayne]

Seems like a waste of time from Liverpool. On what planet would any of the non 9 teams in this list vote for the proposal?



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