Hampster Gull
Well-known member
- Dec 22, 2010
- 13,465
Slippery slope. I suspect we will have no promos or relegation at some point. Filthy fat cats
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Premier League "B" Teams to compete in JPT ?
- Thread starter HawkTheSeagull
- Start date
Silverhatch
Well-known member
From an article by the Guardian's David Conn - November 2014...
Since 1992, the Premier League's TV deals have added up to £3.675bn. Astonishing money for the game. Spent wisely, that could have sustained a sport of which everybody could be proud. Instead, with the Premier League barely sharing its cash with the Football League, but three clubs still going down, the breakaway's inevitable consequence has been utter inequality: 36 of the 72 Football League clubs, exactly half, have been insolvent, in administration or receivership, since 1992.
The most spectacular collapses have been clubs relegated out of the Premiership. Each has produced an inch-thick list of creditors, forced to settle for 10p in the pound: ordinary businesses, builders, newsagents, local councils, the police, fire service and ambulance, the tax-man. Perhaps most shaming, St John Ambulance, the charity that administers first aid, asking only for small donations towards expenses, has been left out of pocket; owed £5,450 by Bradford, over £9,000 by Darlington, £8,000 by Wimbledon. This from a game wallowing in money.
Since 1992, the Premier League's TV deals have added up to £3.675bn. Astonishing money for the game. Spent wisely, that could have sustained a sport of which everybody could be proud. Instead, with the Premier League barely sharing its cash with the Football League, but three clubs still going down, the breakaway's inevitable consequence has been utter inequality: 36 of the 72 Football League clubs, exactly half, have been insolvent, in administration or receivership, since 1992.
The most spectacular collapses have been clubs relegated out of the Premiership. Each has produced an inch-thick list of creditors, forced to settle for 10p in the pound: ordinary businesses, builders, newsagents, local councils, the police, fire service and ambulance, the tax-man. Perhaps most shaming, St John Ambulance, the charity that administers first aid, asking only for small donations towards expenses, has been left out of pocket; owed £5,450 by Bradford, over £9,000 by Darlington, £8,000 by Wimbledon. This from a game wallowing in money.
Uncle Buck
Ghost Writer
- Jul 7, 2003
- 28,075
What happens if one of those sides gets to the final?
Would any of their fans actually go, before you get to the point of ringers playing.
Would any of their fans actually go, before you get to the point of ringers playing.
As long as its U21s only I don't really see the issue with it, I don't really see much of a benefit of it however.
I imagine so, if prices right.
Throw in a uefa cup spot as well, no one in the pl wants it
Gullflyinghigh
Registered User
- Apr 23, 2012
- 4,279
Usually only after they've been knocked out. At that point they can say things like 'allows to concentrate on the league' and pretend that achieving 4th would count for more than winning a trophy.
Before that gets shot down, I'm more than aware that the 4th spot would be more financially beneficial but I absolutely refuse to believe that the majority of fans would rather finish there than see their team lift a trophy.
This ties in to the overall thread as it feels all kinds of wrong that the one trophy L1/L2 teams can realistically win could become something that's passed around the PL reserves. I know that some clubs/fans see it as a joke, but to get a day at Wembley is as big deal regardless of the competition.
Disagree completely, there are a great number who just don't care about the UEFA cup and would rather just stick the stiffs in from start.
It's a decent competition that has been ruined by UEFA.
The FA seem determined to get B teams somewhere, if this is the way then great - means they leave the leagues alone.
Blue Valkyrie
Not seen such Bravery!
What a terrible idea.
It would be much better to make the JPT a proper Football League Cup and include Championship teams.
It would be much better to make the JPT a proper Football League Cup and include Championship teams.
Bloody ironic to witness you of all people talking about mental capacities.
gordonchas
New member
- Jul 1, 2012
- 230
In Spain it's always been the case, however their inclusion has more to do with geography than for football reasons. Spain is a very large country and so only the top two divisions are national. The third tier is split into four sections - basically north, south, east and west, and underneath that there are another 18 regional divisions.
Practically all the B teams of professional clubs ply their trade in either the third or fourth levels - some even below that. At the fourth level the standard is akin to Conference South.
This is in no way equivalent to the English set up and you would also be hard-pressed to find many Spanish football supporters who like the idea that Barcelona B and Real Madrid Castilla (along with the occasional B team of another side) regularly find their way into the national second division (2A).
Football fans should resist this incursion, it's the thin end of the wedge.
It's the FAs thing at the moment , trying to get the PL clubs to have B teams because it works in Spain
Gullflyinghigh
Registered User
- Apr 23, 2012
- 4,279
I can't disagree that the UEFA Cup has, for years, been treated with the same care as the Intertoto Cup was. Baffling when you consider that it still has some mighty teams entering it each year.
I'm not sure it's fair to say that a 'great number' of clubs would rather be out of it altogether though, merely those that belive they're above being in it in the first place (despite actually being there proving the folly of that thought process). Even then, if clubs see it as a nuisance I can't believe that the fans would, certainly outside of the top teams.
Do you believe that B team inclusion in the JPT would really safeguard the leagues? To my mind it would put them at greater risk as after a few seasons it would almost seem like a normal occurrence to play them, making it a much more palatable step to just include them in normal competition.
UEFA cup needs to go back to what is was made for, a cup for the likes of my team Spurs, a club below the biggest teams in Europe, not a cup that is a drop down for the CL clubs.
Going back to the main point, I don't know. Hopefully if it's a complete disaster then it will put them off the idea, if the FA do this they are more clueless than I thought, surely a better idea would be for the top sides to be able/made to loan out more players?
Even then, I don't actually agree that stints in the lower leagues is the best way to train up youth talent.
SweatyMexican
Well-known member
- Mar 31, 2013
- 4,155
They seem like pretty serious issues if you ask me.
Gullflyinghigh
Registered User
- Apr 23, 2012
- 4,279
On that we agree completely. By making it a runners up prize to the 'best loser' (or whatever wording they choose) how can it be expected to be treated as anything else?
I'm not sure whether easing loan restrictions would be the best solution but it's probably the closest so far to one that'd cause the least upheaval.
Personally, I think there should be some form of limit on the amount of reserve/youth registrations the 'massive' teams can actually have.
At the moment, a club such as Chelsea can sign as many half-decent 15 year olds as they want, in the hope that some magically turn out to be good. Those players might get actually get better development at a lesser club due to the attention and time that would be invested in them as the squads would inevitably be smaller and more focussed, whereas Chelsea (to continue the example) could have 100's of kids of all ages with only the decent ones getting looked at, anything less just thrown on the scrap heap.
However, with stuff like the Elite Performance Plan (may have that name slightly wrong), it seems that legislation is likely to favour the hoovering up of all youth players by the bigger teams. If this comes to pass I can understand why the FA would allow the B teams in somewhere, just to allow the platoons of young players who're doing nothing the chance to get a game (before they're ultimately discarded).
Do they have "B" teams any more? It's a long time since the clubs played their "B" teams (known as reserves back then) in the Central League and the Football Combination. Or are we talking about the U21s?
Rubbish idea anyway. The football powers that be are no more likely to go for it than they are for a World Cup in Qatar ...........
Rubbish idea anyway. The football powers that be are no more likely to go for it than they are for a World Cup in Qatar ...........
I don't have an issue with bigger clubs hoovering up the best young talent, they will get better coaching than they would at say Walsall, it's not being PL bias they just have better coaches.
It's what they do with them after which is the issue, they should all have development plans in place which includes them being able to leave at an early age if they are not up to scratch rather than being held on to just because.
They may not suit the training at Chelsea, but may flourish at Brighton where there is less pressure.
Rohana
I'm.Actually.Dead.
If this whole PL B team thing was handled in a better way then I'd be all for it. Simply plopping Chelsea B, Manchester United B etc in to the football pyramid wouldn't work in the slightest.However, with some tweaking I think it could work. Instead of having a "B" team, Premier League clubs were twinned with local lower league clubs who were financially struggling. The Premier League club could send up to 5 English U-21 players on loan to the L1/L2/C and their fans would get a discount on entry to their games.
For example, Chelsea get twinned with Wycombe. They send them Ruben Loftus-Cheek, Isaiah Brown, Dominic Solanke and Alex Davey on loan. Wycombe get 4 young English players with talent, Chelsea get to have some of their youth players play competitive football together, and therefore get the added advantage of them learning how to play with each other. Chelsea season ticket holders also get 50% off Wycombe games 5/6 times a season. Adds a couple of hundred to the attendance now and then, generating a bit of extra money. Also, if Chelsea know that they're going to have players at Wycombe every season for the next 3/5/10 years then its in their best interests to help them pay for extra coaching/equipment/facilities too.
Not perfect, but better than the idea being suggested.
For example, Chelsea get twinned with Wycombe. They send them Ruben Loftus-Cheek, Isaiah Brown, Dominic Solanke and Alex Davey on loan. Wycombe get 4 young English players with talent, Chelsea get to have some of their youth players play competitive football together, and therefore get the added advantage of them learning how to play with each other. Chelsea season ticket holders also get 50% off Wycombe games 5/6 times a season. Adds a couple of hundred to the attendance now and then, generating a bit of extra money. Also, if Chelsea know that they're going to have players at Wycombe every season for the next 3/5/10 years then its in their best interests to help them pay for extra coaching/equipment/facilities too.
Not perfect, but better than the idea being suggested.
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The interesting thing about this is that most agree on the problem - which is young talent not getting a chance to play at a suitably competitive level. But most can`t agree on the solution.
I think this is a problem created by the PL clubs themselves, who overdo the signing of quality British players even though they know the chances of them ever making the first team squad are slim. If some of that talent had to sign for teams lower down the pyramid, problem solved I think. (And let`s not forget that there are some excellent academies outside the PL, ahem). If the youngsters do well they make the 1st team, and if they are exceptional they attract the PL teams attention and maybe ultimately get transferred. And some more money flows from the top table down the pyramid. The players themselves benefit because they get playing time in a real league, and the lower league clubs benefit too. I don`t know how you would make this happen, but it is surely the right answer compared to the "we want our cake and your`s too" approach that the PL have been proposing.
I think this is a problem created by the PL clubs themselves, who overdo the signing of quality British players even though they know the chances of them ever making the first team squad are slim. If some of that talent had to sign for teams lower down the pyramid, problem solved I think. (And let`s not forget that there are some excellent academies outside the PL, ahem). If the youngsters do well they make the 1st team, and if they are exceptional they attract the PL teams attention and maybe ultimately get transferred. And some more money flows from the top table down the pyramid. The players themselves benefit because they get playing time in a real league, and the lower league clubs benefit too. I don`t know how you would make this happen, but it is surely the right answer compared to the "we want our cake and your`s too" approach that the PL have been proposing.
Isn't this an idea put forward by the FA?