[Football] Potter [NOT] at Chelsea

[Icy Gull]

Brentford are a weird one. I feel like our players are a lot better. But their system works really well. I don't feel like they have any superstar players apart from Toney and we have lots now.

Big clubs never seem to come in for Brentford players and won't touch Toney for obvious reasons.

Big clubs wouldn’t touch any of ours with a barge pole in our first two seasons in the PL, Brentford are only half way through their second season..

 

[Swansman]

Brentford are a weird one. I feel like our players are a lot better. But their system works really well. I don't feel like they have any superstar players apart from Toney and we have lots now.

Big clubs never seem to come in for Brentford players and won't touch Toney for obvious reasons.

Feels like Brentford have a slightly different approach.

TB wants Brighton to not ony be a good team, but also play like one, because if you do that you can sell players to top teams. Brentford are going more for priceworthy one-trick ponys that are cheap and very good in their system but somewhat more unlikely to be able to take the step over to big six clubs. May of course change at some point as I'm sure they want access to the money the big teams have.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Pretty sure part of TBs strategy is to recruit competent people who actually do have a clue.

True but at Starlizard he is on record as keeping all the bits of the machine separate, with nobody other than TB knowing how all the bits of the process fit together. As Sporting Director, what would Ashworth know? How would he get his info? What would he do with that info?

 

[phoenix]

I was bitter when he left and wanted him to fail.
I've long predicted this would be exactly what happened the day he left.
The fans won't be patient, and the chairman will buckle sooner rather than later, and he'll be on the merry-go-round by end of season.

As of right now, I really don't care. This is entirely due to how exceptional RDZ and his team have been.

With you Stoneham more or less word for word. 12 goals in the last 3 away games tell me all i need to know.

 

[Brovion]

Part of my own recovery process is realising the importance of cutting the deadwood characters/irrelevant issues out of your life and equally important your thoughts.

Albion wise to me now GP, is no different to Pat Saward, Cloughie, Dean Wilkins et al, he's an ex manager who was paid to do a job, the bottom line is for whatever circumstances that job has come to an end.

Living all of our lives at times looking in the 'rear view mirror' has no benefit.

Whether he succeeds or fails at any of his jobs, present or future, in the grand of scheme of things how does that effect us?

Simple answer it doesn't.

Hmm. I appreciate the sentiment, but if after Chelsea he ends up at another club at our level (Southampton, Leeds, Forest, West Ham etc) and works his magic on them then it WILL affect us as we'll have another rival for 'Top Team Outside The Big Seven'.

 

[Mustafa II]

I've wanted him to fail since day one. I'm loving watching his demise.

I appreciate his work here, but I don't particularly like the man.

He's made more than one snarky comment about our fans, even when he was here. "They need a history lesson"

Then he had no qualms about, not just leaving us, but dismantling our entire set up. "I left them in a good place"

Loving the fact it's all going tits up, and I will celebrate his inevitable sacking.

"It is what it is"

 

[dwayne]

Big clubs wouldn’t touch any of ours with a barge pole in our first two seasons in the PL, Brentford are only half way through their second season..

Nahh we didnt have the players then that were top 6 quality. Biss wasn't fully developed. Other players other than maybe Solly were not good enough, not by a long shot.

Brentford have a much better squad/team than we did in our second season.

 

[Zeberdi]

re: data, I find it highly improbable that Starlizard/Tony Bloom has access to any data that others haven't. Everyone has one or multiple providers of data based on camera-tracking and GPS, and also event based-data. There's no secret things going on on the pitch, there is nothing that isn't measured by multiple companies selling data to clubs. The key is to understand which of these thousands and thousands of data points that are relevant and which aren't.

Yes exactly my original points in my first post on this thread before anyone else had mentioned Starlizard or data. See post 54.

The way I see it, it’s the algorithms Tony’s system uses and the creative interpretation of that data that makes him such a successful business owner for us. Even Benham pinching Bloom’s business model at Starlizard hasn’t been as successful for Brentford as Tony has been for Brighton.

As far as GP is concerned, good luck to him - I’ve moved on from any ‘sour grape’ remonstrations weeks ago - in fact as soon as RDZ was signed, trusting in the Club’s well run strategies that ensure replacement for any member of staff is very quickly filled by someone that could do the job as well if not better - Replacing key staff, not by just employing the first 4 or 5 candidates that come along but by bringing in people that they have been watching and analysing for years (or moving staff up internally as they have with Crofty). Same thing when we sell our best players - the club is already creatively crunching data on possible recruits months even years ahead of time which makes me not concerned about Boehly’s Chelsea doing transfer swoops (or any of the other Big 7).

I honestly can‘t see what GP can achieve that Tuchel wouldn't have been able to anyway, if he had had Boehly to ‘be patient’ and accept the ‘suffering’! GP’s appointment at Chelsea and Boehly trying to squeeze round pegs into square holes with their recruitment of very expensive players looks to me that Boehly‘s business model is to throw millions of bucks blindly against the wall in the eventual hope something will stick! They are a club still very susceptible to fan pressure though so let’s see how far that ‘business model’ takes them.

 

[dwayne]

Feels like Brentford have a slightly different approach.

TB wants Brighton to not ony be a good team, but also play like one, because if you do that you can sell players to top teams. Brentford are going more for priceworthy one-trick ponys that are cheap and very good in their system but somewhat more unlikely to be able to take the step over to big six clubs. May of course change at some point as I'm sure they want access to the money the big teams have.
[/QUOTE

Feels like Brentford have a slightly different approach.

TB wants Brighton to not ony be a good team, but also play like one, because if you do that you can sell players to top teams. Brentford are going more for priceworthy one-trick ponys that are cheap and very good in their system but somewhat more unlikely to be able to take the step over to big six clubs. May of course change at some point as I'm sure they want access to the money the big teams have.

Begs the question is Thomas frank a lot better than potter as he's getting more out of a worse squad than say, potter , 2 seasons ago.

 

[Swansman]

I honestly can‘t see what GP can achieve that Tuchel wouldn't have been able to anyway, if he had had Boehly to ‘be patient’ and accept the ‘suffering’! GP’s appointment at Chelsea and Boehly trying to squeeze round pegs into square holes with their recruitment of very expensive players looks to me that Boehly‘s business model is to throw millions of bucks blindly against the wall in the eventual hope something will stick! They are a club still very susceptible to fan pressure though so let’s see how far that ‘business model’ takes them.

In terms of results GP might not be able to achieve more than Tuchel (difficult when the latter has won them the biggest trophy there is). But there are other parts of managing a football club. With GP they might actually use what is possibly the best academy in the world. With GP they also get a manager who isn't publicly saying that he doesn't want to do what the chairman wants to do (like when Boehly said he wanted Tuchel to be involved in transfers and Tuchel just laughed at it in press conferences).

To me it doesn't look like that at all. They had no recruitment team in the summer and Boehly who knows nothing about football was forced to be some kind of director of football. Now over the last months they've signed a very interesting recruitment team where all of the members are known for finding young, talented players who eventually turn into top class footballers.

 

[Zeberdi]

In terms of results GP might not be able to achieve more than Tuchel (difficult when the latter has won them the biggest trophy there is). But there are other parts of managing a football club. With GP they might actually use what is possibly the best academy in the world. With GP they also get a manager who isn't publicly saying that he doesn't want to do what the chairman wants to do (like when Boehly said he wanted Tuchel to be involved in transfers and Tuchel just laughed at it in press conferences).

To me it doesn't look like that at all. They had no recruitment team in the summer and Boehly who knows nothing about football was forced to be some kind of director of football. Now over the last months they've signed a very interesting recruitment team where all of the members are known for finding young, talented players who eventually turn into top class footballers.

I take your point (which is why it still fcuks me off we lost PW to them) - but using the first transfer window since GP’s tenure by trying to sign one of Ukraine’s very well known top players for north of £60 million doesn’t really fit into that synopisis does it? Maybe Potter has drunk the Cool Aid.

 

[Paulie Gualtieri]

re: data, I find it highly improbable that Starlizard/Tony Bloom has access to any data that others haven't. Everyone has one or multiple providers of data based on camera-tracking and GPS, and also event based-data. There's no secret things going on on the pitch, there is nothing that isn't measured by multiple companies selling data to clubs. The key is to understand which of these thousands and thousands of data points that are relevant and which aren't.

All clubs (that subscribe) will have access to the same raw data, otherwise clubs wouldn’t have data on non players, it’s the algorithm(s) that are unique to each club and what ratings, and stress testing is applied to each or combined data points.

Star Lizard will have a predictive model that is also complemented with real life outcomes to validate the models accuracy and success.

Naturally on paper some players will out perform the model and these gems will very much be considered as to why the model has missed them. There has to be a statistical significance of data for the model to work, so can take time.

It’s by no means static and always evolving

 

[Swansman]

I take your point (which is why it still fcuks me off we lost PW to them) - but using the first transfer window since GP’s tenure by trying to sign one of Ukraine’s very well known top players for north of £60 million doesn’t really fit into that synopisis does it? Maybe Potter has drunk the Cool Aid.

It fits half the synopsis, Mudryk is 22 and likely to improve - but yeah its a big cost. However, Chelsea right now needs player who can contribute immediately rather than having to wait one or two years, and that is going to cost. I expect them to be very active on the market this year and then perhaps chill down.

 

[The Wizard]

It fits half the synopsis, Mudryk is 22 and likely to improve - but yeah its a big cost. However, Chelsea right now needs player who can contribute immediately rather than having to wait one or two years, and that is going to cost. I expect them to be very active on the market this year and then perhaps chill down.

The thing is nothing that the transfer team did here really crosses over to Chelsea and that’s the key point for me, you made the point earlier that GP/Recruitment team like signing young players and improving them, a lot of the bigger money signings we made under Potter actually didn’t live up to the price tag.

Here, he had the chance to bring young players in, at Chelsea they get bought and loaned out because Chelsea/fans demand instant success, they have tens of youngsters out on loan all across Europe.

They don’t really have any experience going for players for big money and neither does Boehly, it’s an interesting mix.

 

[Swansman]

The thing is nothing that the transfer team did here really crosses over to Chelsea and that’s the key point for me, you made the point earlier that GP/Recruitment team like signing young players and improving them, a lot of the bigger money signings we made under Potter actually didn’t live up to the price tag.

Here, he had the chance to bring young players in, at Chelsea they get bought and loaned out because Chelsea/fans demand instant success, they have tens of youngsters out on loan all across Europe.

They don’t really have any experience going for players for big money and neither does Boehly, it’s an interesting mix.

Who were the bigger money players that didn't live up to the price tag..? I'm sure the were some but honestly struggling to recall any. If we look at the ten most expensive players bought under Potter: Mwepu, Webster, Cucurella, Estupinan, Maupay, Trossard, Enciso, Kozlowski, Moder and Gilmour, I struggle to find a name that didn't either do well for the club or might do so in the future.

 

[amexer]

I think where Potter will survive is because he will be a yes man to the owner. Dont think it went down well with owner when Tuchel did not always agree with him

 

[Zeberdi]

Too many TB’s is the issue here

Lol - miscommunication- I think we all have an inkling Tony Bloom has his hands on the data

 

[The Wizard]

Who were the bigger money players that didn't live up to the price tag..? I'm sure the were some but honestly struggling to recall any. If we look at the ten most expensive players bought under Potter: Mwepu, Webster, Cucurella, Estupinan, Maupay, Trossard, Enciso, Kozlowski, Moder and Gilmour, I struggle to find a name that didn't either do well for the club or might do so in the future.

The list is quite hit or miss https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/graham-potter/spielertransfers/trainer/23954

That being said I had misremembered a couple of signings from the season before, I think the point still remains though, the recruitment challenge he faces is much different to the recruitment policy we had here, time will tell if he can identify players who are much higher calibre.

 

[Baldseagull]

In terms of results GP might not be able to achieve more than Tuchel (difficult when the latter has won them the biggest trophy there is). But there are other parts of managing a football club. With GP they might actually use what is possibly the best academy in the world. With GP they also get a manager who isn't publicly saying that he doesn't want to do what the chairman wants to do (like when Boehly said he wanted Tuchel to be involved in transfers and Tuchel just laughed at it in press conferences).

To me it doesn't look like that at all. They had no recruitment team in the summer and Boehly who knows nothing about football was forced to be some kind of director of football. Now over the last months they've signed a very interesting recruitment team where all of the members are known for finding young, talented players who eventually turn into top class footballers.

With GP they get a manager that has a process, the process takes time, and he is running out of it. It also requires players willing to buy into what he wants them to do, and it seems he hasn't got enough of those there currently, they have to buy players this window, but the recruitment team is not well set, may have too many differing opinions in it, and I suspect they will be working as hard to offload a last big pay packet player in Aubameyang, and a few others that are going to be hard to find takers for at their current wage. Does Potter even know which players are not going to work for him, I doubt any are openly saying it, are any of the injured players swinging the lead a bit, preferring to sit out a while until Potter finds his feet or fucks off?
Chelsea have always bought good young players that should turn into top class footballers, but they rarely have the patience to see it through, and end up shifting them on.

 

[Icy Gull]

In terms of results GP might not be able to achieve more than Tuchel (difficult when the latter has won them the biggest trophy there is). But there are other parts of managing a football club. With GP they might actually use what is possibly the best academy in the world. With GP they also get a manager who isn't publicly saying that he doesn't want to do what the chairman wants to do (like when Boehly said he wanted Tuchel to be involved in transfers and Tuchel just laughed at it in press conferences).

To me it doesn't look like that at all. They had no recruitment team in the summer and Boehly who knows nothing about football was forced to be some kind of director of football. Now over the last months they've signed a very interesting recruitment team where all of the members are known for finding young, talented players who eventually turn into top class footballers.

Not sure that finding them has ever been a problem for Chelsea, finding a place for them in the first team has though. I think GP is trying to integrate youngsters already, it’ll just take time and patience for it to work with a shit load of pissed off superstars making waves and downing tools. Toxic hardly covers it, will Boehly hold his nerve, will GP crack?