[Albion] Potter IN or OUT - 10 January poll

[Billy the Fish]

I want to see how we do Jan-Mid Feb.... If the results are as poor as they've been... out.

Which is reasonable on the face of it.

I think some of us are worried, and expecting, that if we don't pick up results by then orbs already too late.

 

[nicko31]

Albion win 60% Potter IN, Albion lose 40% Potter IN. Becoming a pattern..

 

[Jim in the West]

I look past the results over the last year, because what is expected from Potter is not a one, two year project which will see instant results. It is transforming the entire culture of the club, which will take years. It is likely we will find ourselves in a similar position results wise next season, but not certain - anything can happen while we're moving forward like we are.

We are in particularly poor form at the moment, which happens. But remembering the football we've played under Potter, the young players we are already bringing through, with more on their way, Potter really is doing a fantastic job with a very inexperienced first team at this level.

We know how we can play under Potter, how we can literally match the best on our day. We are lacking a cutting edge, which in my view is partly due to poor recruitment this summer, and previous seasons, but I am still confident we will stay up comfortably.

We COULD throw all this hard work out the window. Sack Potter and bring in someone who will keep us up through any means necessary. Rejecting any faith in youth players and playing our strongest XI every game - not subscribing to any kind of philosophy other than score more than the opponent... but all it would mean we would be back to square one next season. Another year lost. It would be total lunacy.

Completely agree. The strategy has been set. In fact, it was set some time ago. The stadium was the obvious first requirement, and then the training ground. The key infrastructure is amazing. Then (after some near misses) we get the right manager to take us out of the Championship - and he's given a very fair crack of the whip to take us further. Unfortunately, it doesn't work out, and it was plain for pretty much EVERYONE to see that the football under Hughton was going to take us down. Hence, in line with the investment in key support staff (Dan Ashworth), some excellent youngsters, the Academy, etc, etc, we look to change the playing style by bringing in a new coach. The amount of change in the past season and a bit has been HUGE. It takes time. We're normal fans - we want to win, we have short time horizons (eg: we MUST beat Fulham in two weeks). Luckily the brains behind it all (TB) has a long term vision which is all about ensuring BHA are a success in 2025, 2030 and beyond. We could abandon that vision and appoint a Pulis or Big Sam to keep us up. But then what? Where do we go next season?

 

[London Irish]

Another poll that confirms the fan base is effectively split down the middle, there is about 40% out, 40% in and a floating 20% that will go back and forth depending if the consensus of a match result/performance is deemed either positive or negative.

Most of us who want him replaced are very reasonable, pragmatic souls though, if the results improve consistently, ie. not a one-off flash-in-the-pan win every 2 months, we will be mollified. That way to reunite the fans base is in Potter's hands, the other is for the board to act sooner rather than later

 

[Eric Youngs Contact Lens]

There are many of coherent arguments on all of these threads, they're not difficult to find in between the hyperbole.

In a nutshell, IMHO:
Every game follows the same pattern of play, teams have worked out how to beat us and GP can't find a way to stop this. Lower teams concede possession knowing we can't beat a low block and will be wasteful with chances. The top 6 just have to wait for us to make mistakes. Conceding from set pieces needs no explanation. Our play since the Man Utd game had been slow and ponderous. Without Lampety we play at a walking pace.
This all just seems to be fobbed off as bad luck.

Except that lots of teams dont beat us.. we have the most draws in the league with 8. We have picked up at least a point in 10 of our 17 games so far. So I can accept that teams have worked out how to stop us, albeit I still think we have missed more chances you would expect to score to warrant some belief that even in many of those draws (and a couple couple of losses) we could/should have got more. Latterly it has been harder and I do think the attacking line up is struggling for confidence.

Man management is awful IMHO. Ali J had two brilliant games last season then he was dropped and never seen again. Ben White shifted around different positions and is losing form. Trossard shifted around and losing form. Maupay dropped with no official explanation, hasn't looked the same since. Gross looked great alongside Biss against Liverpool and Villa then GP changed it - he played White instead and we had an awful performance against Burnley. All the chopping and changing is stopping our players from finding any form. Only 3 or 4 players seem to get a run of games in the same position.

I do think there is something to question in the amount of changes and their impact as you point out, but I do think there are some possible explanations too.. trying to find the right combinations to get the balance right. Individual errors abound. Very few of the attacking players have done enough to make sure they are nailed on. Trossard is very frustrating in this respect. The Maupay situation : clearly something happened around the Spurs game for him and Maty Ryan. The fact that we don't know says it has been kept internally which is how it should be I think? But ultimately I agree that lots of changes may not be helping, albeot some of our best hopes are injury prone and will create the need for change accordingly.

We only ever play well for half a game. Either 1st half is good and their manager makes tactical changes or GP gets it wrong first half and had to change. He can't seem to combine the two.
Game management is terrible, GP was determined to pass out from the back against quick pressing sides for far too long although he seems to have stopped this now. Consistently failing to protect a lead is unforgivable and I see it as a direct result of our other deficiencies.

Isnt this partly just the nature of the PL? With the best coaches/players, it is rare for a team to be played off the park for 90 mins. The alternative view is that no-one has played us off the park with the exception of Leicester and even then we should have been 1-0 up before they scored and arguably we held them 2nd half. I think sometimes we are doing Potter a disservice and ignore that our performances sometimes prompt a big change in the opposition or vice versa. Did Wolves manager get it wrong 2nd half, or were we just better? That said our mistakes at the back when we are leading has been horrible to endure, but I also think our missed chances (and penalties) that could change the complexion of a game at other times are equally to blame

I've said on many threads I would try and get Slaven Bilic, hers got a pedigree the GP can only dream of and a pretty good track record in England. Only [MENTION=10202]Not Andy Naylor[/MENTION] has ever acknowledged my suggestion, correctly pointing out that Bilic was known for, especially at WHU, not working his teams hard enough. I'm convinced he'd do a better job than GP and is available.
My other suggestion is João Pedro Sousa, which is a bit leftfield. He's got a good knowledge of English football and is doing well at a tiny club in Portugal.
I'm sure there are others, GP is not the only manager in the world. The new manager poll you reference was an obvious piss take by the OP and therefore not taken seriously.

I agree and accept that there are other coaches and it is too simplistic to say "stick" because there are no viable alternatives. I learnt that through GP ironically - I really struggled to see how a team like ours could realistically hope to compete in more PL matches without being really defensive. So yes there may be alternatives but I don't think we are "broken" and are so close to being very good. I hope that GP is our Hassenhutl ! But if not, then other coaches are around albeit I don't know enough about European football to quote ant. I personally don't think Bilic is that man, although I really like his persona and I am not sure his English record provides that much confidence that he would see a marked improvement on our current challenges. But to my earlier point, not changing should not be driven by a view that no-one else is there.

Edit : sorry for the strange format!! Trying to answer good points with reasonable points!

 

[neilbard]

Fair comments but struggling to get my head around how Potter can be held in anyway responsible for the comedy goal in the 95th minute of a game that should have gone to 94, which was the reason we didn’t hold the lead. The ref was almost as bad as the Wolves manager said he was imo too. So many mistakes, both ways

Potter selected the team which was virtually what he would have picked for a Premier League game à la Arsenal,

with the exception of maybe two outfield players and the keeper who blunders in the last minute, Potter is the manager and the buck stops with him.

You could also argue that it's not his fault that we took some woeful penalties, and he was ******** lucky Steele bailed him out with a couple of fine saves,

post match Potter described last night's game as "traumatic", I'm certainly with him on that one it was a painful watch.

 

[Icy Gull]

Potter selected the team which was virtually what he would have picked for a Premier League game à la Arsenal,

with the exception of maybe two outfield players and the keeper who blunders in the last minute, Potter is the manager and the buck stops with him.

You could also argue that it's not his fault that we took some woeful penalties, and he was ******** lucky Steele bailed him out with a couple of fine saves,

post match Potter described last night's game as "traumatic", I'm certainly with him on that one it was a painful watch.

Yeah because no Brighton manager has ever given the goalkeeper’s jersey to the no 2 in Cup games before.

Painful watch? Frustrating yes but painful watches to me are games where we are overrun.

Pointless argument because even if we beat Man City 4-0 you’d still want Potter out. You have made your Potter out bed for a year now and you lie in it moaning and griping every game

 

[Justice]

I look past the results over the last year, because what is expected from Potter is not a one, two year project which will see instant results. It is transforming the entire culture of the club, which will take years. It is likely we will find ourselves in a similar position results wise next season, but not certain - anything can happen while we're moving forward like we are.

We are in particularly poor form at the moment, which happens. But remembering the football we've played under Potter, the young players we are already bringing through, with more on their way, Potter really is doing a fantastic job with a very inexperienced first team at this level.

We know how we can play under Potter, how we can literally match the best on our day. We are lacking a cutting edge, which in my view is partly due to poor recruitment this summer, and previous seasons, but I am still confident we will stay up comfortably.

We COULD throw all this hard work out the window. Sack Potter and bring in someone who will keep us up through any means necessary. Rejecting any faith in youth players and playing our strongest XI every game - not subscribing to any kind of philosophy other than score more than the opponent... but all it would mean we would be back to square one next season. Another year lost. It would be total lunacy.

What the fxxk do watch every week? We are frail slow and generally piss poor. We hardly created against a league two outfit, lost to 10 men SU who hand out 3 points to every other club bar 2 and surprise surprise one was us.

The fella was traumatised after playing league two hit and hope merchants ffs, Dunk is reverting to three years ago Dunk it’s a mess the clown will take us down all for what because we didn’t sit back against the big boys We didn’t f...king win either.

 

[neilbard]

Yeah because no Brighton manager has ever given the goalkeeper’s jersey to the no 2 in Cup games before.

Painful watch? Frustrating yes but painful watches to me are games where we are overrun.

Pointless argument because even if we beat Man City 4-0 you’d still want Potter out. You have made your Potter out bed for a year now and you lie in it moaning and griping every game

Maybe if we could muster a home win I might be a bit more positive towards the chap, we have been woeful in front of goal for so many games now.

9 Home games no wins yet, Fulham up next, I don't get this love in with Potter, what has he really achieved?

Gifted a top job by Bloom, he needs to start winning some games..

 

[figgis]

Watching the Game last night everytime the Camera went on the Newport manager he was giving orders chase that do this etc everytime it went on Potter he was either sucking his coat collar or just standing there looking stupid.

Get rid before we get relegated he is completely out of his depth.

 

[Billy the Fish]

I agree and accept that there are other coaches and it is too simplistic to say "stick" because there are no viable alternatives. I learnt that through GP ironically - I really struggled to see how a team like ours could realistically hope to compete in more PL matches without being really defensive. So yes there may be alternatives but I don't think we are "broken" and are so close to being very good. I hope that GP is our Hassenhutl ! But if not, then other coaches are around albeit I don't know enough about European football to quote ant. I personally don't think Bilic is that man, although I really like his persona and I am not sure his English record provides that much confidence that he would see a marked improvement on our current challenges. But to my earlier point, not changing should not be driven by a view that no-one else is there.

Edit : sorry for the strange format!! Trying to answer good points with reasonable points!

Thanks for taking the time to reply! Genuinely enjoyed reading that and respect all your points.
I guess there's quite a fine line between accepting that errors have been made but giving GP the chance to fix them and opting for regime change.

 

[Eric Youngs Contact Lens]

Thanks for taking the time to reply! Genuinely enjoyed reading that and respect all your points.
I guess there's quite a fine line between accepting that errors have been made but giving GP the chance to fix them and opting for regime change.

Likewise - as you say, beyond the name-calling and hyperbole, there are some useful viewpoints to consider for all of us..

 

[Justice]

Yeah because no Brighton manager has ever given the goalkeeper’s jersey to the no 2 in Cup games before.

Painful watch? Frustrating yes but painful watches to me are games where we are overrun.

Pointless argument because even if we beat Man City 4-0 you’d still want Potter out. You have made your Potter out bed for a year now and you lie in it moaning and griping every game

That doesn’t make you special he is entitled to his view. It will be interesting to see how ‘in’ you are when the fool takes us down.

 

[Seasidesage]

There are many of coherent arguments on all of these threads, they're not difficult to find in between the hyperbole.

In a nutshell, IMHO:
Every game follows the same pattern of play, teams have worked out how to beat us and GP can't find a way to stop this. Lower teams concede possession knowing we can't beat a low block and will be wasteful with chances. The top 6 just have to wait for us to make mistakes. Conceding from set pieces needs no explanation. Our play since the Man Utd game had been slow and ponderous. Without Lampety we play at a walking pace.
This all just seems to be fobbed off as bad luck.

Man management is awful IMHO. Ali J had two brilliant games last season then he was dropped and never seen again. Ben White shifted around different positions and is losing form. Trossard shifted around and losing form. Maupay dropped with no official explanation, hasn't looked the same since. Gross looked great alongside Biss against Liverpool and Villa then GP changed it - he played White instead and we had an awful performance against Burnley. All the chopping and changing is stopping our players from finding any form. Only 3 or 4 players seem to get a run of games in the same position.

We only ever play well for half a game. Either 1st half is good and their manager makes tactical changes or GP gets it wrong first half and had to change. He can't seem to combine the two.
Game management is terrible, GP was determined to pass out from the back against quick pressing sides for far too long although he seems to have stopped this now. Consistently failing to protect a lead is unforgivable and I see it as a direct result of our other deficiencies.

I've said on many threads I would try and get Slaven Bilic, hers got a pedigree the GP can only dream of and a pretty good track record in England. Only [MENTION=10202]Not Andy Naylor[/MENTION] has ever acknowledged my suggestion, correctly pointing out that Bilic was known for, especially at WHU, not working his teams hard enough. I'm convinced he'd do a better job than GP and is available.
My other suggestion is João Pedro Sousa, which is a bit leftfield. He's got a good knowledge of English football and is doing well at a tiny club in Portugal.
I'm sure there are others, GP is not the only manager in the world. The new manager poll you reference was an obvious piss take by the OP and therefore not taken seriously.

I do have some reservations that you do especially on chopping and changing of the side. Low block is a legitimate tactic employed by a lot of sides including us until last season and game management is indeed a problem. However against that we are an evolving team in transition developing and playing young players who are going to make mistakes we are lowering dramatically the average age of a team. This was never going to be pain free and you are going to get overplaying and mistakes.

I salute you for having alternative suggestions but Bilic while certainly not a bad manager doesn't really have that great a track record. Leaving aside international football as irrelevant, his record is Moscow, worst finish in their history, Besiktas one season, West Ham Great 1st season not so clever the 2nd gone by Nov, Saudi 4 wins in 17 sacked, WBA biggest budget in the Championship staggered over the line on the last day in 2nd place, this season 7pts from 13 games sacked oh and last but not least has just taken a job in China!

The other fella Sousa? Marco Silva's assistant but we won't hold that against him has managed a total of 56 games none in England and people complain Potter is inexperienced?

We have some problems for sure but we are a team in transition lacking quality in attacking areas, suffering growing pains from inexperience and lacking nouse. I'm not complacent we could go down for sure but I'm not convinced making a change of manager at this point is the best thing we could do

 

[Weststander]

What the fxxk do watch every week? We are frail slow and generally piss poor. We hardly created against a league two outfit, lost to 10 man SU who hand out 3 points to every other club bar 2 and surprise surprise one was us.

The fella was traumatised after playing league two hit and hope merchants ffs, Dunk is reverting to three years ago Dunk it’s a mess the clown will take us down all for what because we didn’t sit back against the big boys We didn’t f...king win either.

A small erratum, we didn’t lose to SU.

 

[usernamed]

What the fxxk do watch every week? We are frail slow and generally piss poor. We hardly created against a league two outfit, lost to 10 men SU who hand out 3 points to every other club bar 2 and surprise surprise one was us.

The fella was traumatised after playing league two hit and hope merchants ffs, Dunk is reverting to three years ago Dunk it’s a mess the clown will take us down all for what because we didn’t sit back against the big boys We didn’t f...king win either.

We play well until we get to the attacking third, then we invariably check back, allow the opposition defence time to reorganise, and spend a few minutes fruitlessly trying to break down at least two banks of four. This is a reason to tweak some of the coaching tactics/attacking drills, not sack the manager.

Even when you say we’re slow, I don’t think we are, it’s more that we don’t have the courage of our convictions when we counter-attack. It doesn’t matter who’s carrying the ball forward, we always seem to check our run and wait for reinforcements rather than keep the opposition defence running back toward their own goal.

I’m firmly ‘Potter In’. I would just like to see some tweaking of the attacking tactics and a slightly more ebullient, upbeat public persona from GP. He can come across as a bit over-earnest or diffident in press conferences. They’re a chance to raise morale, set a narrative around the game, and praise players, and I don’t think he makes enough of that side of the game. The squad need reminding they’re quality players, and it helps them if the manager is confident looking/sounding too.

To my eyes, we play good football, our results haven’t been great, we’ve seen the frontline struggle and have sourced reinforcements to strengthen. For the first time in our PL stint we have attacking options, let’s see if GP can get them firing.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Steve Foster]

Man City - we are all expecting a defeat.

Leeds - hoping for a point

Fulham - fail to win that if we don’t get 3 points from either the other two - Potter will be a dead man walking

 

[figgis]

We play well until we get to the attacking third, then we invariably check back, allow the opposition defence time to reorganise, and spend a few minutes fruitlessly trying to break down at least two banks of four. This is a reason to tweak some of the coaching tactics/attacking drills, not sack the manager.

Even when you say we’re slow, I don’t think we are, it’s more that we don’t have the courage of our convictions when we counter-attack. It doesn’t matter who’s carrying the ball forward, we always seem to check our run and wait for reinforcements rather than keep the opposition defence running back toward their own goal.

I’m firmly ‘Potter In’. I would just like to see some tweaking of the attacking tactics and a slightly more ebullient, upbeat public persona from GP. He can come across as a bit over-earnest or diffident in press conferences. They’re a chance to raise morale, set a narrative around the game, and praise players, and I don’t think he makes enough of that side of the game. The squad need reminding they’re quality players, and it helps them if the manager is confident looking/sounding too.

To my eyes, we play good football, our results haven’t been great, we’ve seen the frontline struggle and have sourced reinforcements to strengthen. For the first time in our PL stint we have attacking options, let’s see if GP can get them firing.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Mate even my wife who is forced to watch all matches on the tv has said Brighton games are boring. I hope you will be as pleased when we get relegated. Get a grip mate we are shite.

 

[Husty]

I look past the results over the last year, because what is expected from Potter is not a one, two year project which will see instant results. It is transforming the entire culture of the club, which will take years. It is likely we will find ourselves in a similar position results wise next season, but not certain - anything can happen while we're moving forward like we are.

We are in particularly poor form at the moment, which happens. But remembering the football we've played under Potter, the young players we are already bringing through, with more on their way, Potter really is doing a fantastic job with a very inexperienced first team at this level.

We know how we can play under Potter, how we can literally match the best on our day. We are lacking a cutting edge, which in my view is partly due to poor recruitment this summer, and previous seasons, but I am still confident we will stay up comfortably.

We COULD throw all this hard work out the window. Sack Potter and bring in someone who will keep us up through any means necessary. Rejecting any faith in youth players and playing our strongest XI every game - not subscribing to any kind of philosophy other than score more than the opponent... but all it would mean we would be back to square one next season. Another year lost. It would be total lunacy.

Big fat old THIS.

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

I am genuinely surprised by the vitriol that Graham Potter is subjected to.

Trying to rationalise the level of criticism, which I feel is over the top, I wonder if the current situation we all find ourselves in, the pandemic and multiple lockdowns, is making people less forgiving? Quicker to call for the managers head?

Probably. With almost everything else being in a depressive slump then the focus is more on the albion.