[News] Post Office Scandal -

[vegster]

Have watched the drama and followed the regular updates in Private Eye over the last many years.. I think what shines through is that many ordinary people think that doing the right thing, being honest and truthful is absolutely no defence for either being shat on or being treated maliciously by government, police or big business. People mistakenly feel they are part of a " Society " and that there are checks and balances in place to protect them when in fact checks and balances work against them...

This is yet another scandal which has been delayed, covered up and obfuscated see, Windrush, The Tainted Blood scandal, Hillsborough, the murder of Stephen lawrence, Aberfan and Orgreave and many others. The state and its organs takes forever to accept a problem, then orders an inquiry which takes years to get to any conclusions and then takes even more years to quash convictions, admit liability and pay out the minimum level of compensation. By this time the hope is that many of those are now dead and compensation and redress is kept to a minimum..

I used to be proud to be British but the scales fell from my eyes about 15 years ago, the sub-postmasters are just the latest and there will be more.

 

[Springal]

Now talk the Post Office could go bust as HMRC believe they wrongly claimed tax relief on the compensation paid out

 

[WATFORD zero]

I think the thing I have learned from this is that all those people 'who aren't interested in politics' or believe 'they're all the same' may have a slightly different view as to what is being done in their name if they had a 3 month subscription to Private Eye and actually read it.

But the reality of the situation says that the concentration span required would be too long. TL;DR, give us a TV drama, or even better, can you summarise it in three words ?

it's why we're where we are

 

[Talby]

Have watched the drama and followed the regular updates in Private Eye over the last many years.. I think what shines through is that many ordinary people think that doing the right thing, being honest and truthful is absolutely no defence for either being shat on or being treated maliciously by government, police or big business. People mistakenly feel they are part of a " Society " and that there are checks and balances in place to protect them when in fact checks and balances work against them...

This is yet another scandal which has been delayed, covered up and obfuscated see, Windrush, The Tainted Blood scandal, Hillsborough, the murder of Stephen lawrence, Aberfan and Orgreave and many others. The state and its organs takes forever to accept a problem, then orders an inquiry which takes years to get to any conclusions and then takes even more years to quash convictions, admit liability and pay out the minimum level of compensation. By this time the hope is that many of those are now dead and compensation and redress is kept to a minimum..

I used to be proud to be British but the scales fell from my eyes about 15 years ago, the sub-postmasters are just the latest and there will be more.

Completely agree. Have followed this for years too and, fortunately, public anger is moving it in the right direction now.

Unfortunately being honest and correct won’t get you far when a big organisation slams the door and tells you to go away. A business culture that cares only about brand reputation, money and loyalty to that brand will only foster an internal culture that gives loyalty to the wishes of senior staff.

Unless those at the top are willing to own mistakes, engage with stakeholders and respect their views then you’re always going to have a battle on your hands when you tell them that they’re wrong. It’s not an ethical approach to believe you’re right, when so clearly you’re in the wrong (incl. breaking the law or interpreting it in a way that suits only you).

I thought that we had made progress but evidently not.

 

[herecomesaregular]

Must admit I only watched the 4 episode ITV dramatisation today in a binge, because of the publicity (apologies into the ether for that). I found it a very, very emotional watch and must have muttered "bastards" to myself dozens of times. Shameful behaviour, absolutely disgusting. A reminder to me that one purpose of Govt is to protect the public from Big Business even when this business is Govt owned and run. Shocking mow down of the "little people". Those involved on the right side are truly admirable people and I hope they get millions to at least have a very comfortable later life (those that have survived the trauma of course). I have no faith in Tories nowadays but was surprised and pleased in a way to see at least one decent Conservative MP still exists. Of course, all parties come out of the situation hanging their heads in shame. As for the PO ex CEO, my word, how can she sleep at night...

 

[birthofanorange]

Must admit I only watched the 4 episode ITV dramatisation today in a binge, because of the publicity (apologies into the ether for that). I found it a very, very emotional watch and must have muttered "bastards" to myself dozens of times. Shameful behaviour, absolutely disgusting. A reminder to me that one purpose of Govt is to protect the public from Big Business even when this business is Govt owned and run. Shocking mow down of the "little people". Those involved on the right side are truly admirable people and I hope they get millions to at least have a very comfortable later life (those that have survived the trauma of course). I have no faith in Tories nowadays but was surprised and pleased in a way to see at least one decent Conservative MP still exists. Of course, all parties come out of the situation hanging their heads in shame. As for the PO ex CEO, my word, how can she sleep at night...

She'll be fine as she's a person of the cloth - God will look after her...although the other guy should be looking to add her to his squad.

 

[Weststander]

Now talk the Post Office could go bust as HMRC believe they wrongly claimed tax relief on the compensation paid out

It’s like the rail companies, to all intents state owned if and when insolvent.

 

[Sirnormangall]

Have watched the drama and followed the regular updates in Private Eye over the last many years.. I think what shines through is that many ordinary people think that doing the right thing, being honest and truthful is absolutely no defence for either being shat on or being treated maliciously by government, police or big business. People mistakenly feel they are part of a " Society " and that there are checks and balances in place to protect them when in fact checks and balances work against them...

This is yet another scandal which has been delayed, covered up and obfuscated see, Windrush, The Tainted Blood scandal, Hillsborough, the murder of Stephen lawrence, Aberfan and Orgreave and many others. The state and its organs takes forever to accept a problem, then orders an inquiry which takes years to get to any conclusions and then takes even more years to quash convictions, admit liability and pay out the minimum level of compensation. By this time the hope is that many of those are now dead and compensation and redress is kept to a minimum.

I used to be proud to be British but the scales fell from my eyes about 15 years ago, the sub-postmasters are just the latest and there will be more.

And sadly you can add to your list of shame pensions misselling, endowment misselling, PPI etc etc. There’s a big problem with corporate culture ( not exclusive to UK). In fairness, financial regulators have upped their game in recent years and it’s a great pity that PO hasn’t been subject to that level of regulation

 

[Thunder Bolt]

She'll be fine as she's a person of the cloth - God will look after her...although the other guy should be looking to add her to his squad.

She was asked to resign by the bishop, so basically sacked.

 

[birthofanorange]

She was asked to resign by the bishop, so basically sacked.

Good to hear.

 

[cunning fergus]

Have watched the drama and followed the regular updates in Private Eye over the last many years.. I think what shines through is that many ordinary people think that doing the right thing, being honest and truthful is absolutely no defence for either being shat on or being treated maliciously by government, police or big business. People mistakenly feel they are part of a " Society " and that there are checks and balances in place to protect them when in fact checks and balances work against them...

This is yet another scandal which has been delayed, covered up and obfuscated see, Windrush, The Tainted Blood scandal, Hillsborough, the murder of Stephen lawrence, Aberfan and Orgreave and many others. The state and its organs takes forever to accept a problem, then orders an inquiry which takes years to get to any conclusions and then takes even more years to quash convictions, admit liability and pay out the minimum level of compensation. By this time the hope is that many of those are now dead and compensation and redress is kept to a minimum..

I used to be proud to be British but the scales fell from my eyes about 15 years ago, the sub-postmasters are just the latest and there will be more.

Twas always thus, our recollections if we wanted would also include multiple NHS failure cover ups, the Cambridge 5, BBC and Savile, cash for honours, politicians expenses, Railtrack, Weapons of mass destruction, ignoring child sexual abuse by grooming gangs, Libya, RBS, demutualisation of building societies the list of National shame goes on and it will continue to do so………….maybe Billy Joel could rewrite we didn’t start the fire?

This episode puts all political parties in the bin, as it does the organs of the civil service like the CPS and Judges who evidently didn’t challenge the narratives provided by the PO. Even the media shouldn’t get a pass given how long this issue has been dragging on. To think it takes a drama on ITV to move this country’s leadership dial to ensure justice for its citizens is shameful.

The old school tie network of leadership in politics, media private and public institutions is probably dead but has been replaced by the new school tie network so nothing has really changed and sadly nothing is likely to do so in future. In some ways the current situation is worse, in the past people used to fall on their sword, but no one resigns any more…………..Vennels may have had a CBE, remember Fred Goodwin was knighted.

Beware the knights…………….they must be the Uber establishment shithouses.

 

[Eric the meek]

The Post Office reputation is irreparably damaged. It is now a toxic combination of public sector incompetence, malevolence and whopping bonuses funded by taxpayers.

I can see a multi million pound rebranding exercise coming.

Welcome to Rapido. A new, fresh network of hubs - sustainable, connected and fit for the twenty first century and beyond.

'You'll be in and out in a jiffy'.

 

[Goldstone Guy]

And sadly you can add to your list of shame pensions misselling, endowment misselling, PPI etc etc. There’s a big problem with corporate culture ( not exclusive to UK). In fairness, financial regulators have upped their game in recent years and it’s a great pity that PO hasn’t been subject to that level of regulation

I can see your point but I don't think more regulation is always the answer. My opinion is there is a belief in government that the regulator is effective and trustworthy and the workers aren't but what if it's the other way round? There was recently the teacher suicide case and Ofsted. In the health service we get CQC inspections which are a disaster for primary care - loads of admin/bureaucracy which force practices to merge/get larger, which ruins continuity of care (ie you never see the same doctor twice). The government seem to think we all need to be checked up on all the time but who regulates the regulators? Remember Carl Beech? He was convicted of child abuse, and accused others (falsely) of abuse. What was his job (at one point at least)? - A CQC inspector!

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

Have watched the drama and followed the regular updates in Private Eye over the last many years.. I think what shines through is that many ordinary people think that doing the right thing, being honest and truthful is absolutely no defence for either being shat on or being treated maliciously by government, police or big business. People mistakenly feel they are part of a " Society " and that there are checks and balances in place to protect them when in fact checks and balances work against them...

This is yet another scandal which has been delayed, covered up and obfuscated see, Windrush, The Tainted Blood scandal, Hillsborough, the murder of Stephen lawrence, Aberfan and Orgreave and many others. The state and its organs takes forever to accept a problem, then orders an inquiry which takes years to get to any conclusions and then takes even more years to quash convictions, admit liability and pay out the minimum level of compensation. By this time the hope is that many of those are now dead and compensation and redress is kept to a minimum..

I used to be proud to be British but the scales fell from my eyes about 15 years ago, the sub-postmasters are just the latest and there will be more.

Although I am a Private Eye subscriber and have been for years, and so well aware of the continuing sage, I was staggered by the very deliberate delaying tactics and obfuscation, well illustrated when in the final episode the judge presiding over one of the enquiries had to step down - recuse himself - because the Post Office had complained that he was deliberately biased against them. As the lawyers made clear, that just DOESN’T happen. It deliberately delayed the whole thing by about a year.(?)

As others have mentioned, I would love to know what is going on in Paula Vennells head at the moment, given the Priest bit.

But another question in my mind is whether all this would have happened had the Post Office not been privatised. I used to work in the Gas Industry 40 years age and always felt very uncomfortable about the privatisation of utilities and Public Services. Is this the logical extension of what can happen if you introduce a profit motive to things that matter? It’s all Thatcher’s fault.

 

[m20gull]

Although I am a Private Eye subscriber and have been for years, and so well aware of the continuing sage, I was staggered by the very deliberate delaying tactics and obfuscation, well illustrated when in the final episode the judge presiding over one of the enquiries had to step down - recuse himself - because the Post Office had complained that he was deliberately biased against them. As the lawyers made clear, that just DOESN’T happen. It deliberately delayed the whole thing by about a year.(?)

As others have mentioned, I would love to know what is going on in Paula Vennells head at the moment, given the Priest bit.

But another question in my mind is whether all this would have happened had the Post Office not been privatised. I used to work in the Gas Industry 40 years age and always felt very uncomfortable about the privatisation of utilities and Public Services. Is this the logical extension of what can happen if you introduce a profit motive to things that matter? It’s all Thatcher’s fault.

The Post Office is still government-owned. Royal Mail was privatised.

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

I can see your point but I don't think more regulation is always the answer. My opinion is there is a belief in government that the regulator is effective and trustworthy and the workers aren't but what if it's the other way round? There was recently the teacher suicide case and Ofsted. In the health service we get CQC inspections which are a disaster for primary care - loads of admin/bureaucracy which force practices to merge/get larger, which ruins continuity of care (ie you never see the same doctor twice). The government seem to think we all need to be checked up on all the time but who regulates the regulators? Remember Carl Beech? He was convicted of child abuse, and accused others (falsely) of abuse. What was his job (at one point at least)? - A CQC inspector!

Mrs DiS spent a lifetime in education latterly at senior levels. She was constantly fulminating against the “one word” verdict of OFSTED inspections - outstanding, satisfactory, etc. This is precisely what led to the suicide.
Such things were often dictated by something in the nature of the School’s circumstances - the nature of the neighbourhood in which it worked, the social class of its intake. It could result in things like recognition of just how well you are doing with a difficult group of kids, but they can’t mark you highly because of something like the level of absences in the school.
at least if Labour come in to power they have said they will deal with this and make the process more nuanced and supportive.

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

The Post Office is still government-owned. Royal Mail was privatised.

Sorry - you’re right, but the climate where executives expect to be highly paid and receive huge bonuses still seems to prevail there.

 

[m20gull]

Sorry - you’re right, but the climate where executives expect to be highly paid and receive huge bonuses still seems to prevail there.

Absolutely.

 

[Eric the meek]

Although I am a Private Eye subscriber and have been for years, and so well aware of the continuing sage, I was staggered by the very deliberate delaying tactics and obfuscation, well illustrated when in the final episode the judge presiding over one of the enquiries had to step down - recuse himself - because the Post Office had complained that he was deliberately biased against them. As the lawyers made clear, that just DOESN’T happen. It deliberately delayed the whole thing by about a year.(?)

As others have mentioned, I would love to know what is going on in Paula Vennells head at the moment, given the Priest bit.

But another question in my mind is whether all this would have happened had the Post Office not been privatised. I used to work in the Gas Industry 40 years age and always felt very uncomfortable about the privatisation of utilities and Public Services. Is this the logical extension of what can happen if you introduce a profit motive to things that matter? It’s all Thatcher’s fault.

I know m20gull has pointed this out above, but when you wonder whether all this would have happened had the Post Office not been privatised, the answer is 'yes it would' because it has happened while the Post Office has not been privatised ! However, if you are wondering whether it would have happened in the event that the Post Office had been privatised, having seen the calibre of the witnesses, I would say that would have been quite likely.

A point about the recusal. While the Post Office applied for the recusal of the judge, Sir Peter Fraser, their application was denied in the Court of Appeal. Judge Fraser was able to carry on.

Look in here, (search on 'recused') https://davidallengreen.com/. Thanks to @Jim in the West for this link.

 

[A mex eyecan]

I know m20gull has pointed this out above, but when you wonder whether all this would have happened had the Post Office not been privatised, the answer is 'yes it would' because it has happened while the Post Office has not been privatised ! However, if you are wondering whether it would have happened in the event that the Post Office had been privatised, having seen the calibre of the witnesses, I would say that would have been quite likely.

A point about the recusal. While the Post Office applied for the recusal of the judge, Sir Peter Fraser, their application was denied in the Court of Appeal. Judge Fraser was able to carry on.

Look in here, (search on 'recused') https://davidallengreen.com/. Thanks to @Jim in the West for this link.

** The Post Office Has not been privatised ** edit: sorry, misunderstood your comment