[News] Post Office Scandal -

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Newsnight just spent some time on this. The PO were lying to PO ministers in the coalition period 2010 to 2015.

When it comes eventually to the CPS, please no traditional British cop out. This deserves a thorough and determined police investigation (hopefully well under way) and case to go to criminal trial. Conspiracy one of many possible charges.

CPS operates on probability of conviction. It isn't political.

Vide the Stephen Lawrence corrupt police case....

I don't agree with it (the decisions) but I understand it.

It is about not enough money being set aside for 'risky' prosecutions.

This is HMG saving ordinary working people's taxes. Something we are all apparently clamouring to vote for.

There is something to ponder.

 

[m20gull]

There’s still a big place for it for the RSPCA. Over 1,400 convictions for animal cruelty each year. Without this, the police/CPS would put animals at the bottom of the pile.

The enemies of the RSPCA (some Tory MP’s, also rural thugs, in a nutshell vile scum) have long called for an end to RSPCA powers. The reason is obvious.

I'm not sure I agree and I am happy to take this discussion elsewhere to avoid derailing an important thread about this scandal. The difference from the RSPCA is that the PO was the victim, the police, and the prosecutor (not, I admit, in all cases).

 

[Weststander]

I'm not sure I agree and I am happy to take this discussion elsewhere to avoid derailing an important thread about this scandal. The difference from the RSPCA is that the PO was the victim, the police, and the prosecutor (not, I admit, in all cases).

We might agree.

I follow the animal stuff a bit. There’s a longstanding thing of fox hunters and their henchmen calling for RSPCA to be removed of powers. Wonder why?

The PO prosecutions powers need to end. Plus much more internally.

 

[Surf's Up]

Post Office scandal: Police to deploy 80 detectives for criminal inquiry

Exclusive: Investigation will dig into potential perjury offences and perverting the course of justice by senior leaders and Fujitsu

www.theguardian.com

It's going to take another 3 years, at least, but maybe, just maybe, justice will be delivered.
I would love to see that lawyer in Australia who refused to participate in the enquiry extradited and flown in from Australia with a police escort.

I wouldn't-t bank on the Old Bills innate ability to cock things up - not the sharpest tools in the box etc etc.

 

[GT49er]

I agreed with his rebuke, but there is no need for that. Play the ball...

Ball was played. Bang on target too.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Ball was played. Bang on target too.

If you mean testicle, I'd agree

 

[rippleman]

And the Post Office scandal continues.

They have now published the details of every post office manager falsely prosecuted over Horizon. Yup, that's right. Some of those prosecuted had even kept it a secret from close family because they were embarrassed and ashamed.

Post Office accidentally leaks names of sub-postmasters

Former sub-postmasters react angrily as the company launches an urgent investigation into breach.

www.bbc.co.uk

Final act of vitriolic retribution against those they falsely accused?

Meanwhile the Post Office's victims are still waiting for their compo. Shameful.

 

[The Clamp]

And the Post Office scandal continues.

They have now published the details of every post office manager falsely prosecuted over Horizon. Yup, that's right. Some of those prosecuted had even kept it a secret from close family because they were embarrassed and ashamed.

Post Office accidentally leaks names of sub-postmasters

Former sub-postmasters react angrily as the company launches an urgent investigation into breach.

www.bbc.co.uk

Final act of vitriolic retribution against those they falsely accused?

Meanwhile the Post Office's victims are still waiting for their compo. Shameful.

I will never believe this was not done deliberately.

Scum of the earth.

 

[Bodian]

I will never believe this was not done deliberately.

Scum of the earth.

 

[Seagull58]

Post Office Ltd is a retailer offering its services through 11,500 branches, 99% of which are run by independent subpostmasters and 1% are run directly by Post Office Ltd. The Company employs around 5,000 people who, at the senior levels, appear to view the subpostmasters as a slave resource to be dominated, abused and misused as they like, despite the fact that they are almost totally reliant on them for their revenue and even for the company's very existence
Perhaps Post Office Limited should be replaced by a co-operative company owned by the subpostmasters? The relationship is toxic, broken and totally one-sided from a contractual viewpoint so why not cut out the toxic part and replace it with a company run for the benefit of its members who deliver its services to the general public? It's a tried and tested model e.g. The Co-op and John Lewis Partnership.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

And the Post Office scandal continues.

They have now published the details of every post office manager falsely prosecuted over Horizon. Yup, that's right. Some of those prosecuted had even kept it a secret from close family because they were embarrassed and ashamed.

Post Office accidentally leaks names of sub-postmasters

Former sub-postmasters react angrily as the company launches an urgent investigation into breach.

www.bbc.co.uk

Final act of vitriolic retribution against those they falsely accused?

Meanwhile the Post Office's victims are still waiting for their compo. Shameful.

Call me a cynic but that seems it might have been on purpose .... after all, who's going to pay the ICO fine ? Ah, of course, the taxpayer not the execs. Revenge from the execs.

 

[schmunk]

Call me a cynic but that seems it might have been on purpose .... after all, who's going to pay the ICO fine ? Ah, of course, the taxpayer not the execs. Revenge from the execs.

Nah, bollocks. Some dickhead's made a dickhead boo boo.

 

[rippleman]

Call me a cynic but that seems it might have been on purpose .... after all, who's going to pay the ICO fine ? Ah, of course, the taxpayer not the execs. Revenge from the execs.

Absolutely agree. That kind of info doesn't get passed around from dickhead to dickhead until someone decides to bang it on the website.

I'm with Clampy and you 100%. It was a final deliberate act of retribution.

 

[A1X]

 

[Thunder Bolt]

There’s still a big place for it for the RSPCA. Over 1,400 convictions for animal cruelty each year. Without this, the police/CPS would put animals at the bottom of the pile.

The enemies of the RSPCA (some Tory MP’s, also rural thugs, in a nutshell vile scum) have long called for an end to RSPCA powers. The reason is obvious.

RSPCA and also Customs & Excise.

 

[Official Old Man]

Graham Ward, day 154.
Mr Beer rips him apart. Mr Ward has to return following discovery of a document that proves he deleted evidence showing Postmasters were inocent.
First time I've seen actual evidence of this. This will make your blood boil.
Fast forward to 30 mins as the first 30 mins just covers his previous appearance.


Meanwhile, take next week off work, Gareth Jenkins, the man from Fujitsu whose evidence sent 100's to jail, is finally due to give evidence for 4 days.

 

[carlzeiss]

Wow apparently Graham Ward is currently employed by the Metropolitan Police no less

Graham Ward: a man in trouble

Graham Ward giving evidence remotely to the Post Office Inquiry today Graham Ward was the Post Office investigator who helped put former Subpostmaster Noel Thomas away. Whether he did so by pervert…

www.postofficescandal.uk

 

[Bodian]

Graham Ward, day 154.
Mr Beer rips him apart. Mr Ward has to return following discovery of a document that proves he deleted evidence showing Postmasters were inocent.
First time I've seen actual evidence of this. This will make your blood boil.
Fast forward to 30 mins as the first 30 mins just covers his previous appearance.


Meanwhile, take next week off work, Gareth Jenkins, the man from Fujitsu whose evidence sent 100's to jail, is finally due to give evidence for 4 days.

Thanks for posting this. Everyone remotely involved in any sort of legal work, or even amending stuff at whatever work you do should watch that - to fully understand the potential repercussions and consequences of our keyboard actions, and how they can come back to haunt us.

Mr Beer is rapidly becoming a hero of mine. How he manages to keep all this in his head is quite amazing (yes, I know he has support, but still). And the way he takes people through things makes it crystal clear what they were up to. Sometimes he skips over stuff, and the witness must think 'phew' - only for him to return to it. In this instance, he let Mr Ward say time and again that he wasn't aware of bugs or problems with Horizon etc. and hadn't been told. Only for Mr Beer to say at the end - Gareth Jenkins, the expert witness, was telling you here that there were system failures, so you were told - but you deleted it from his statement because it was potentially damaging to the prosecution. Ward kept trying to say he hadn't deleted it - but he clearly had - or even if he hadn't, he'd made it quite clear he wanted it deleted.

 

[Simster]

Wow apparently Graham Ward is currently employed by the Metropolitan Police no less

Graham Ward: a man in trouble

Graham Ward giving evidence remotely to the Post Office Inquiry today Graham Ward was the Post Office investigator who helped put former Subpostmaster Noel Thomas away. Whether he did so by pervert…

www.postofficescandal.uk

Thanks for posting this - he has been ripped apart so badly there that it was embarrassing. The Post Office appeared to be riddled with incompetent arse-coverers who didn't give a f**k about anybody whose lives were ruined by that organisation.

There must be dozens of people who deserve some form of retribution for the way they've behaved. Surely the public will demand these people's heads on a stick.

 

[Goldstone1976]

Thanks for posting this. Everyone remotely involved in any sort of legal work, or even amending stuff at whatever work you do should watch that - to fully understand the potential repercussions and consequences of our keyboard actions, and how they can come back to haunt us.

Mr Beer is rapidly becoming a hero of mine. How he manages to keep all this in his head is quite amazing (yes, I know he has support, but still). And the way he takes people through things makes it crystal clear what they were up to. Sometimes he skips over stuff, and the witness must think 'phew' - only for him to return to it. In this instance, he let Mr Ward say time and again that he wasn't aware of bugs or problems with Horizon etc. and hadn't been told. Only for Mr Beer to say at the end - Gareth Jenkins, the expert witness, was telling you here that there were system failures, so you were told - but you deleted it from his statement because it was potentially damaging to the prosecution. Ward kept trying to say he hadn't deleted it - but he clearly had - or even if he hadn't, he'd made it quite clear he wanted it deleted.

Two things about his examination that immediately screamed at me he could have said that would have sowed a bit of FUD:

1. Something that Beer himself picked up: having deleted the third reason, just why did he not delete the reference lower down the page that referred back to system failures?
2. Something that neither man brought up: if you delete the third reason, and your intention is truly to completely delete the point, why do you leave ‘three reasons’ in the text? If absolute deletion was the objective, he would have changed ‘three’ to ‘two’.

I’m left feeling that there are two reasonable conclusions to draw:

1. Ward was absolutely involved in a cover up at that point and he’s really rather stupid because he only changed one of the three things that needed changing.

2. Ward wanted point 3 re-worded to not look as bad. He deleted the words, but didn’t intend for the point to be completely deleted.

Personally, I think he was/is a not particularly sophisticated man who was more in camp 2 rather than 1. He lacked the sophistication in his second examining to provide some reasonable FUD.

The whole thing is an unmitigated clusterfuck and cover up. Several people should, and probably will, be jailed. I’m not completely convinced that Ward is one of them.