[News] Post Office Scandal -

[Westdene Seagull]

Awful 6 o’clock news summaries from bbc and itv meridian. Much mention that she apologised, also her “brought to tears”.

That was not the main message from today in any shape or form.

Instead; her callousness over the suicide, blaming others, damning texts and emails.

I don't like the printed press in this country but I suspect they will destroy her tomorrow - doesn't need the BBC or ITV.

 

[amexer]

If every corporate inquiry simply leads to strong words, recommendations (that nobody ever takes onboard because the next sociopaths are already in charge and know they can get away with) and other ‘soft’ measures…is there any point to any of this I wonder? Ever? For anything? It’s just all rather procedural and no amount of justice will ever be served by it. In the court of appeal she and others are already convicted, but their liberty and wealth gained by are completely untouched. Tax payers pay the compensation. Tax payers pay the cost of the inquiry. All for what exactly? So we can further understand what we already know? I’d rather save the cost of an inquiry. It’s not going to change anything not already known and generally established.

why do Post Ofice not pay the compensation

 

[Brian Fantana]

why do Post Ofice not pay the compensation

As they're a government-owned company, who won't be making enough profit themselves to cover the likely compensation bill, I'm not sure where else the money would come from apart from tax payers ultimately.

 

[BrightonCottager]

I once worked on a programme that isn't on anybody 's CV. There are people who would rather claim to have been in prison for the 3yrs it was running.

I also had someone apply to me for a job claiming he had done my job on a major programme.

It's true, failure is an orphan and success has many fathers.

Would that have been Tony Blair's NHS IT project which also involved Fujitsu? A mate of mine was working on it (for the NHS) and visiting their office in Hammersmith. One day, he rocked up and they'd just cleared out without telling any of their NHS partners. If I remember correctly, they sued the government for breaking the contract and won £Bs in compensation.

 

[South Stand Bonfire]

Exactly. Contrast that with Paul Barber, who probably knows the wattage of the floodlights amongst everything else, and you can tell she’s lying.

You should email him that question just to test that theory!

 

[Weststander]

Would that have been Tony Blair's NHS IT project which also involved Fujitsu? A mate of mine was working on it (for the NHS) and visiting their office in Hammersmith. One day, he rocked up and they'd just cleared out without telling any of their NHS partners. If I remember correctly, they sued the government for breaking the contract and won £Bs in compensation.

My sister in law was one of 1,000’s working as faux ‘consultants’ (operating through the tax ruse of one man band limited companies) on Blair’s NHS IT system. As a project manager she grossed £200k a year from it. She was in charge of bods on £300 per day, this was the 00’s so incredible money in real terms.

Abandoned, with £13b of taxpayers money down the drain.

 

[Seagull58]

My sister in law was one of 1,000’s working as faux ‘consultants’ (operating through the tax ruse of one man band limited companies) on Blair’s NHS IT system. As a project manager she grossed £200k a year from it. She was in charge of bods on £300 per day, this was the 00’s so even for them incredible money in real terms.

Abandoned, with £13b of taxpayers money down the drain.

Going a bit off topic here but I worked with off-the-shelf(ish) ERP and SCM systems for over 20 years as a supplier. I just cannot understand why these projects always choose to design and build a system from scratch, reinventing the wheel numerous times, instead of procuring the best, scalable OTS system they can find and applying customisations where necessary.
Yes, of course, there are projects of that type that fail dismally (Spend And Pray, for example) but there is a much better chance of success if you start with a template system and control the flights of fancy of the customer and the swarm of consultants that darken the sky when they fly in.
The Post Office requirement wasn't even that complicated, just distributed, multi-company sales, inventory management and accounting.

 

[Weststander]

Going a bit off topic here but I worked with off-the-shelf(ish) ERP and SCM systems for over 20 years as a supplier. I just cannot understand why these projects always choose to design and build a system from scratch, reinventing the wheel numerous times, instead of procuring the best, scalable OTS system they can find and applying customisations where necessary.
Yes, of course, there are projects of that type that fail dismally (Spend And Pray, for example) but there is a much better chance of success if you start with a template system and control the flights of fancy of the customer and the swarm of consultants that darken the sky when they fly in.
The Post Office requirement wasn't even that complicated, just distributed, multi-company sales, inventory management and accounting.

Scamming for decades. Ripping off SME’s too.

I knew a local tools retailer in the 90’s where they were wooed by a Southampton based software company that sold bespoke integrated accounting, POS and stock ledger system. Stubbornly and falling for the slick bullsh1t they signed up, an upfront cost of £90k. At the time reliable and well known names such as Sage had this software nailed, it would’ve cost low £100’s per month instead.

It turned out the £90k system was a piece of cr@p, within 18 months collecting dust. The local business owners didn’t even seem bothered.

 

[Right Back]

Like many at the top of organisations she would have spent years talking about how staff needed to follow values. Like many the problem is that those lower down the organisation do follow values and do the right thing. Those at the top shaft people to get to the top and have the least of any values. All she was interested in was her own career. Seen it many times and she is the opposite of what leadership is about. A total disgrace.

 

[Eric the meek]

Oh - something else she didn't read / understand at the time....

View attachment 182815

I've just watched that part. Marvelous.

A proper lightbulb moment at the end, when the judge asked her 'why?' (did that briefing document contain such an obvious - and completely intentional - contradiction?)

The fact that it took her by surprise, says it all.

 

[Seagull58]

Scamming for decades. Ripping off SME’s too.

I knew a local plant hire business in the 90’s where they were wooed by a Southampton based software company that sold bespoke integrated accounting, POS and stock ledger system. Stubbornly and falling for the slick bullsh1t they signed up, an upfront cost of £90k. At the time reliable and well known names such as Sage had this software nailed, it would’ve cost low £100’s per month instead.

It turned out the £90k system was a piece of cr@p, within 18 months collecting dust. The local business owners didn’t even seem bothered.

They could have stuck Sage into each post office and written batch integration to the PO central system. Job done in a few months, easy to maintain snd upgrade. Too simple for Fujitsu and nowhere near enough billable hours.

 

[Weststander]

For many, many years she “wasn’t aware” that the PO engaged a 100+ investigators, nor that the prosecutions were private cases under special statute brought by her business. Despite heading up that function, before her promotion.

 

[Weststander]

They could have stuck Sage into each post office and written batch integration to the PO central system. Job done in a few months, easy to maintain snd upgrade. Too simple for Fujitsu and nowhere near enough billable hours.

I remember a comment 25 years ago by Alan Sugar about management consultants such as McKinsey and Deloitte’s. Not joking, he said their first meet every Monday morning was how many billable hours they could make out of their client that week. He ditched using them early on.

 

[Iggle Piggle]

For many, many years she “wasn’t aware” that the PO engaged a 100+ investigators, nor that the prosecutions were private cases under special statute brought be her very entity. Despite heading up that function, before her promotion.

This highlights our culture in the UK quite neatly. Institutions and some schools teach kids to be "successful" generally by teaching the wrong values and behaviours. Meanwhile, competent people don't rise at the same pace due to face fitting issues or just not wanting to deal with all the wankers at the top and their behaviours.

Vennells neatly encapsulates this. Seemingly entitled, a bit thick but could sleep at night because she was a person of faith who told herself that made everything alright. I mean, no one wanted to employ anyone at that level at that time, that asked difficult questions did they? She's the management version of Andy Dunks (there is a great private eye article on him). A useful idiot

 

[raymondo]

As they're a government-owned company, who won't be making enough profit themselves to cover the likely compensation bill, I'm not sure where else the money would come from apart from tax payers ultimately.

Would be nice if SOMETHING would be clawed back from their bonuses... I know it won't happen.

 

[Weststander]

Would be nice if SOMETHING would be clawed back from their bonuses... I know it won't happen.

By civil action?

 

[raymondo]

By civil action?

Yes, if it's possible.
I can't imagine it actually happening...many different things conspiring to give me a feeling of despondency in the 'structures' at the moment: Post Office, Blood scandal, Water companies ...

 

[clapham_gull]

Scamming for decades. Ripping off SME’s too.

I knew a local tools retailer in the 90’s where they were wooed by a Southampton based software company that sold bespoke integrated accounting, POS and stock ledger system. Stubbornly and falling for the slick bullsh1t they signed up, an upfront cost of £90k. At the time reliable and well known names such as Sage had this software nailed, it would’ve cost low £100’s per month instead.

It turned out the £90k system was a piece of cr@p, within 18 months collecting dust. The local business owners didn’t even seem bothered.

Many organisations in the public sector think they know better.

When confronted by external existing successful software their instant reaction is that doesn't do what we need it to do, rather than confronting the reality that what they are doing is wrong. I'm observed it for years.

Bad business analysis and the proliferation of "soft skills" IT jobs doesn't help either. Far too many in that arena have limited technical ability simply gathering "user requirements" that embed and systemise existing bad practice into software.

They measure their success on delivering what the users want rather than adequately questioning whether they needed it in the first place. I've long held the belief that as a business you'd be better off training the technical how the business works, rather than spending your time simply fooling the non technical how technology works.

 

[Weststander]

Yes, if it's possible.
I can't imagine it actually happening...many different things conspiring to give me a feeling of despondency in the 'structures' at the moment: Post Office, Blood scandal, Water companies ...

Regarding impoverishing the corrupt individuals.

The problem with the blood scandal was it centred on arrogant to evil ‘experts’ 40 years ago, the main doctor long dead. Then governments of all colours, probably influenced by cocky Whitehall NHS mandarins to ignore the noise and save £b’s. So no individuals to go after.

Hillsborough … the passage of corrupt decades plus weak manslaughter laws at the time, allowed the overtly corrupt to get away with it.

Water companies. Two issues .. the Australian former owners of Thames Water borrowed £10b’s then drew it as dividends, selling and running off. All the businesses should be state owned. But that won’t stop the second issue of leaks and disgraceful pollution because public owned Welsh Water have a shocking record too.

Starmer has an opportunity to deal with this to prevent future institutional corruption, wasted £b’s, theft of public money. Has he got the laser focus to do something about it? Please no more expensive commissions where the only winners are lawyers and the years roll by.

 

[Saunders]

So she cried fake tears and whilst doing so said "other issues where involved" from the suicide when she talked to the father of her fake friend. By the time any prosecutions go through they will all be suffering illness and old age and we will have to foot the bill for the money they ferreted away as bonuses paid from suspense account funds that belonged to the sub postmasters