[News] Post Office Scandal -

[beorhthelm]

You've got faith in the public inquiry? It will go the way of the covid inquiry with lost phones, Whatapp messages and no recollections.

i have more faith in the inquiry process uncovering real information and presenting it fairly, rather than the lazy media/politican narratives that going after low hanging fruit.

 

[timbha]

I don’t think the answer lies with the IT systems, it’s with the fear culture at PO, starting from the top.

Horizon’s contract programmers, testers, developers, etc will have moved on to make lots of money making similar errors at banks, insurers, and anyone desperate enough to hit an unreasonable implementation schedule, leaving the poor support staff to try and unpick their cover ups for years to come.

I expect the PO had an inherent lack of trust in the postmasters, hence the contract that any losses are their fault, dating back to a time when some postmasters might have had their hands in the till.

Prosecutions must follow.

 

[Shropshire Seagull]

View attachment 172453

Might be wrong but I don't believe details of the list of known bugs was ever handed over to the independent investigators. That list will exist tho

Inland Revenue used EDS as IT supplier and shortly after IR merged with Customs to become HMRC and EDS lost the contract to a consortium of Capgemini, Fujitsu & BT. Cap did software, Fujitsu did hardware & BT did comms. Accenture were also bought in selectively on some new systems.

With every new software development handover (at IR / HMRC cant speak for PO) there was a KEL (known error log) document which formed part of the project deliverables. This was reviewed and accepted by the business project director as part of sign-off. BPDs were senior heads of department, not a Vennells position, but more Van der Bogerd level.

Not all software testing is exhaustive (CAA / NATS ATC an exception) so even with a KEL there is potential for an "undocumented feature" aka a bug not yet found.

So the "list" may or may not help. Would still be nice for it to be made available ...

 

[Springal]

I’ve done quite a lot of work with Fujitsu over the years and it’s quite amusing how many people who work there previously mentioned their work on the Post Office account on their LinkedIns etc now quietly removing all trace

 

[Thunder Bolt]

i have more faith in the inquiry process uncovering real information and presenting it fairly, rather than the lazy media/politican narratives that going after low hanging fruit.

Yet, it was the 'lazy media' who kept bringing it back to the population's attention. Computer Weekly, Private Eye, BBC Panorama and eventually ITV.

Who kept sweeping it under the carpet and hoping it would fade away?

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

I’ve done quite a lot of work with Fujitsu over the years and it’s quite amusing how many people who work there previously mentioned their work on the Post Office account on their LinkedIns etc now quietly removing all trace

Be interesting to see how they explain away that gap in their CV

 

[Mellor 3 Ward 4]

I don’t think the answer lies with the IT systems, it’s with the fear culture at PO, starting from the top.

It's both.

 

[Mellor 3 Ward 4]

Prosecutions must follow.

100% agree.

 

[Lyndhurst 14]

So many BS honours being given out and its getting worse.

Its sad its been so degraded

Needs reform and get rid of the ridiculous "E"

Yes Minister - Doing the Honours

 

[Simster]

i have more faith in the inquiry process uncovering real information and presenting it fairly, rather than the lazy media/politican narratives that going after low hanging fruit.

I am willing to bet that an inquiry will simply conclude that there was systemic arse-covering at the expense of innocent sub-postmasters rather than name any names. That's the problem with inquiries; they often merely tell us what we already know, whilst failing to hold anyone truly accountable and make them punishable.

Under those circumstances, the public will want the arses on a plate of the people who had the power to make meaningful changes but chose to ignore the injustice, and rightly so IMO. So that means culpable politicians who initially ignored the issue (Labour), refused to meet the sub-postmasters at all (Davey, a slopey-shouldered LibDem), handed Vennells a CBE (Johnson, seeing as no other Tory is owning that one as of yesterday). Then Vennells should be paying back some of her obscene bonuses, Fujitsu should be excluded from govt contracts until a thorough review into their business practices has been undertaken. Shady people like Adam Crozier and Michael Keegan need to be investigated too.

Now these targets are all low hanging fruit in my eyes, but I'm struggling to see how any of them being brought to heel would be a bad thing.

 

[Birdie Boy]

Fujitsu also manage TFL's network/ systems. Seems like they've managed to bag lot of big contracts...

 

[KZNSeagull]

There will be an act of parliament to quash their convictions. Details to be announced after PMQs.

 

[WATFORD zero]

I don’t think the answer lies with the IT systems, it’s with the fear culture at PO, starting from the top.

Horizon’s contract programmers, testers, developers, etc will have moved on to make lots of money making similar errors at banks, insurers, and anyone desperate enough to hit an unreasonable implementation schedule, leaving the poor support staff to try and unpick their cover ups for years to come.

I expect the PO had an inherent lack of trust in the postmasters, hence the contract that any losses are their fault, dating back to a time when some postmasters might have had their hands in the till.

Prosecutions must follow.

It really won't be the programmers, testers or developers (contract or otherwise) responsible for this. To make a cock up/cover up on this scale you have to be pretty senior

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

Fujitsu also manage TFL's network/ systems. Seems like they've managed to bag lot of big contracts...

Fujitsu are balls-deep in core IT systems for major government departments, including (to use the names they had when the contracts were awarded) Inland Revenue, DHSS, HMCE, as well as a huge number of local authorities. Main reason being that contracts for those systems were awarded to ICL, a British-owned computer company, who were - for that reason - on the government's list of Preferred Suppliers. Then Fujitsu acquired an 80% stake in ICL...

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Fujitsu also manage TFL's network/ systems. Seems like they've managed to bag lot of big contracts...

They bagged them all on the back of the PO one, which was rushed through knowing it wasn't fit for purpose with a view to fixing it later, and making better solutions for all the contracts that tumbled in after the PO 'success'. This is what happened.

The motivation to lie (pretending to every postmaster it was only them who had missing money, which is how every prosecution was managed) was so as to not undermine Horizon. The rubric for this must have involved the exchange of money for mendacity. This needs to be exposed.

 

[WATFORD zero]

Fujitsu also manage TFL's network/ systems. Seems like they've managed to bag lot of big contracts...

It will be mere coincidence that the Education Secretary Gillian Keegan's husband, Michael Keegan was Head of Fujitsu UK and Ireland during the awarding of lots of those big contracts and the latter part of the Post Office Scandal.

But he's obviously moved on and is currently employed as a crown representative to the Cabinet Office, managing cross-government relationships with BAE Systems as a strategic supplier to the Government.

(And is probably keeping his head down and hoping his name isn't mentioned)

 

[portlock seagull]

Gareth Jenkins, architect of Post Office scandal, demands immunity

The former Fujitsu engineer's testimony about the faulty Horizon IT system was central to convictions

www.telegraph.co.uk

Interesting development…

 

[beorhthelm]

I am willing to bet that an inquiry will simply conclude that there was systemic arse-covering at the expense of innocent sub-postmasters rather than name any names. That's the problem with inquiries; they often merely tell us what we already know, whilst failing to hold anyone truly accountable and make them punishable.

Under those circumstances, the public will want the arses on a plate of the people who had the power to make meaningful changes but chose to ignore the injustice, and rightly so IMO. So that means culpable politicians who initially ignored the issue (Labour), refused to meet the sub-postmasters at all (Davey, a slopey-shouldered LibDem), handed Vennells a CBE (Johnson, seeing as no other Tory is owning that one as of yesterday). Then Vennells should be paying back some of her obscene bonuses, Fujitsu should be excluded from govt contracts until a thorough review into their business practices has been undertaken. Shady people like Adam Crozier and Michael Keegan need to be investigated too.

Now these targets are all low hanging fruit in my eyes, but I'm struggling to see how any of them being brought to heel would be a bad thing.

going to be a big haul of fruit.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

going to be a big haul of fruit.

We're gonna need a bigger plate

 

[portlock seagull]

Someone has said a former senior manager at Fujitsu, at the time, now works for the Albion. Obviously there are thousands of jobs worldwide in such an organisation and whomever might never have worked on or had anything to do with Horizon. Be interesting to see if whoever gets called as a witness if public enquiry sanctioned