[News] Post Office convictions quashed.

[el punal]

A pregnant woman was sent to jail, another woman had her children taken away, and some of the accused/convicted wrongly have died. It was horrendous and all because the PO wouldn't admit their new software had a problem.

I worked for Royal Mail for nearly twenty years. Initially they were a good organisation to work for but around the early 2000s changes were afoot. Computerisation of every facet of running the business took over. The computer says no/yes and that was it - there was no redress, even when problems were obvious and needed to be rectified. Nothing was taken into consideration and as a consequence many staff left to be replaced by agency workers with no experience and next to no training.

So am I surprised by the calamitous events involving those unfortunate sub postmasters/mistresses? Not in the slightest. The sheer arrogance and spite of Post Office management beggared belief - and so it proved by today’s findings.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

I was wondering this. Surely if there was such a big doubt over the evidence the judiciary should take a slice of the blame?

The PO did their own prosecutions, not the CPS.

 

[Nitram]

An absolute scandal, the CEO at the time walked away Scot free, just shows how people at the top are unaccountable when protected by the establishment. Hope this is revisited.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paula_Vennells

 

[Shropshire Seagull]

This is a huge slur on Fujitsu plc as they wrote the dodgy Horizon software.

Remaining question for me is, so WHERE did the money go? And if there was no missing money, how come a manual audit didn't show this up?
Questions to be asked?

 

[clapham_gull]

This is a huge slur on Fujitsu plc as they wrote the dodgy Horizon software.

Remaining question for me is, so WHERE did the money go? And if there was no missing money, how come a manual audit didn't show this up?
Questions to be asked?

There was probably no "missing money", it was made up by the system. Where is was paid back it ended up the Post Offices accounts.

 

[amexer]

Why has it taken 14 years to get to court.
Very strange. Hard to understand when system was showing nearly all Post Offices were short they didnt accept computers wrong

 

[maltaseagull]

It should have been blindingly obvious to PO management retards as soon as more than a few were deemed to be allegedly "defrauding" that a computer fault
was likely to be the blame. It makes me so angry to see people mistreated through sheer idiocy and incompetence.

Absolutely this. Surely anyone with the slightest degree of common sense would question why suddenly hundreds of Post Office were being run by "thieves" having been honest for years beforehand.

Such a pity that the real guilty ones will get away unpunished.

 

[Arthritic Toe]

I really haven't understood this story so maybe someone can correct my understanding?

These people were accused of stealing thousands of pounds but surely a good audit would have shown that was not the case and that the money didn't ever exist? Surely their daily figures would very strictly show the movement of all transactions and they would be able to track the closing position each day and pinpoint when the books were last correct. Which makes it easier to pinpoint any discrepancies? I can't understand why they weren't able to show all transactions were correctly logged and accounted and that no money was actually missing. Alternatively, surely the individuals could have shown that they didn't have any of the additional cash which was allegedly missing?

You'd have thought so wouldnt you - but as I understand it, the Horizon system was used as the source of truth against which the balance movements were compared for audit purposes.

The really scandalous (and criminal) thing is that they knew there were flaws in the system, but deliberately hid that information and threw the postmasters under the bus rather than suffer the embassassment of having to admit they had completely inadequate financial systems and audit processes.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Why has it taken 14 years to get to court.
Very strange. Hard to understand when system was showing nearly all Post Offices were short they didnt accept computers wrong

Absolutely this. Surely anyone with the slightest degree of common sense would question why suddenly hundreds of Post Office were being run by "thieves" having been honest for years beforehand.

Such a pity that the real guilty ones will get away unpunished.

As I understand it, there weren’t hundreds but around 50, as the glitch was random. The tragedy was the head honchos just wouldn’t believe there was a possibility of a random glitch. As commented the sub postmasters were thrown under the bus.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

I've only just heard about this for the first time today, saw it on the BBC news this morning and just read about it online. Can't believe I've missed a story as big as this, has it been under-reported or have I just missed it?

I'm struggling to believe what I've just read though, it is absolutely scandalous. Those poor, poor people having to go through this over all these years. Thank god there is some justice now though I'm not sure any amount of compensation will make up for what they've had to go through. And I feel so incredibly sorry for those who died and their families with this still hanging over them.

And to think Priti Patel and some on here advocate bringing back the death penalty!

Under reported. I can understand this, while trials and appeals are underway, but there have been at least 2 windows where reporting should have been frenzied. Either we had a whole load of crooks running post offices, or there had been a cock up or conspiracy (looks like it was the latter), and the media should have been all over it.

Edit: I knew about it from a radio feature about 2 years ago. Never heard about it before or (till now) since. Perhaps I should get out more. Or stay in more.

 

[maltaseagull]

As I understand it, there weren’t hundreds but around 50, as the glitch was random. The tragedy was the head honchos just wouldn’t believe there was a possibility of a random glitch. As commented the sub postmasters were thrown under the bus.

"There were more than 700 prosecutions based on Horizon evidence. The commission and the Post Office are asking anyone else who believes their conviction to be unsafe to come forward."

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-56859357

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Absolutely this. Surely anyone with the slightest degree of common sense would question why suddenly hundreds of Post Office were being run by "thieves" having been honest for years beforehand.

Such a pity that the real guilty ones will get away unpunished.

Common sense you say? I worked in a big pub in Crawley in the early 80s. The manager would physically put the takings in the bank. The manager told me that every 12-15 months he would pay in exactly a grand or two short. The brewer would make enquiries, shrug their shoulders and pass it off as some sort of error. No idea how long he got away with it. Soon after I left, his missus was done for shoplifting. I'm told that the thing about common sense is that it is . . . uncommon.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

"There were more than 700 prosecutions based on Horizon evidence. The commission and the Post Office are asking anyone else who believes their conviction to be unsafe to come forward."

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-56859357

Sorry, you’re right.

 

[Falmer Wizard]

A pregnant woman was sent to jail, another woman had her children taken away, and some of the accused/convicted wrongly have died. It was horrendous and all because the PO wouldn't admit their new software had a problem.

How many PO management have been dismissed as a result of their knowledge that their staff were not guilty of the charges against them

 

[South Stand Bonfire]

Must have been a living nightmare. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-56859357

I think the worst bit is the PO not admitting it’s guilt. Just imagine in your own workplace, you see your customers every day for years, in your own community. Your customers also become your friends.

And then they are told you are a thief; you have cheated them ; you cannot be trusted; all because a f***g computer glitch that could never be wrong. This is a disgrace and should not end with today’s verdict.

 

[Cian]

Justice won't be served here without significant compensation, particularly to the families of those that are now dead; and to have senior execs from the Post Office and *particularly* from Fujitsu behind bars for the coverup.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

I think the worst bit is the PO not admitting it’s guilt. Just imagine in your own workplace, you see your customers every day for years, in your own community. Your customers also become your friends.

And then they are told you are a thief; you have cheated them ; you cannot be trusted; all because a f***g computer glitch that could never be wrong. This is a disgrace and should not end with today’s verdict.

One story I read today was a sub postmistress who couldn’t get a job following her conviction, but the people in her village believed her. She earned a living by cleaning for them. The local vicar even went to the trial with her for moral support.

 

[Razzoo]

The government is facing huge legal costs. Not only was the Post Office publicly owned at the time of the scandal but the Department for Business is the subject of a complaint currently being investigated by the parliamentary ombudsman.

So taxpayers will end up footing the bill?

 

[Gwylan]

So taxpayers will end up footing the bill?

The government has already paid out a big whack of compensation but, yes, they're about to pay out a lot more

 

[The Wookiee]

Panorama covered it last year.