[Albion] Possible return of fans to the Amex (incorporating the Q and A forum on 17th August)

[Uter]

Are you saying my predicted A* has been downgraded to a C?

Yes sorry. But it was overturned on appeal.

 

[Gazwag]

So most of us might see 6 matches next season, I hope that's not the 6 somebody might opt out of

 

[Giraffe]

Out of curiosity I looked at the distribution for every possible outcome, 0 - 19 successes.

If it was in place ballot was in place for the whole season at the same 30% rate, and every STH applied for every match, they'd be about 1000 unlucky people who were only successful for 2 or fewer matches.

Obviously there are many factors in play here, so it won't pan out like this. But it does demonstrate that a ballot system that takes no account of previous successes or failures can still generate a lot of winners and losers for 19 events, and possibly doesn't even out in the medium term as much as people might instinctively think.

*assuming I got my numbers right.

View attachment 127318

This is very interesting. I imagine Tony Bloom has a very similar spreadsheet. Given this I am surprised there is not even a token effort to recognise a level of loyalty even for a very small number of tickets. Imagine if the bloke who has gone to every home and away game for 20 years or whatever it was only gets to go twice whilst JCL ex Chelsea fan turns up to over half the games. I appreciate as I said before this is not a perfect world anymore though so perhaps this is inevitable.

 

[WilburySeagull]

This is very interesting. I imagine Tony Bloom has a very similar spreadsheet. Given this I am surprised there is not even a token effort to recognise a level of loyalty even for a very small number of tickets. Imagine if the bloke who has gone to every home and away game for 20 years or whatever it was only gets to go twice whilst JCL ex Chelsea fan turns up to over half the games. I appreciate as I said before this is not a perfect world anymore though so perhaps this is inevitable.

The point has been made before that loyalty points were only ever relevant for away games. Every ST paid for and expected access to every home game so we are all equally entitled to ballot. As a practical point the club has emphasised going for a simple solution to minimise admin.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

This is very interesting. I imagine Tony Bloom has a very similar spreadsheet. Given this I am surprised there is not even a token effort to recognise a level of loyalty even for a very small number of tickets. Imagine if the bloke who has gone to every home and away game for 20 years or whatever it was only gets to go twice whilst JCL ex Chelsea fan turns up to over half the games. I appreciate as I said before this is not a perfect world anymore though so perhaps this is inevitable.

All things considered, I’m happy I’m safe and well and able to enter the ballot. Anything else is a bonus these days.

 

[Giraffe]

All things considered, I’m happy I’m safe and well and able to enter the ballot. Anything else is a bonus these days.

Very fair comment. It does put football into perspective doesn't it.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Very fair comment. It does put football into perspective doesn't it.

Ask me again if an ex-Chelsea twunt gets my seat!

 

[BeHereNow]

What about the ‘We don’t open parts of the ground if we can’t get enough fans in there’ rule?

How many fans will be in the West Upper? 2,000?

 

[Uter]

This is very interesting. I imagine Tony Bloom has a very similar spreadsheet. Given this I am surprised there is not even a token effort to recognise a level of loyalty even for a very small number of tickets. Imagine if the bloke who has gone to every home and away game for 20 years or whatever it was only gets to go twice whilst JCL ex Chelsea fan turns up to over half the games. I appreciate as I said before this is not a perfect world anymore though so perhaps this is inevitable.

Yeah, I am sure they have analysed it. Given that we don't know how long restrictions will be in place and the capacity is highly likely to be variable for this period, I think the random approach is fair enough for now. Complicating it could be a big admin burden. They must be juggling a million and one things at present.

 

[Driver8]

So most of us might see 6 matches next season, I hope that's not the 6 somebody might opt out of

I imagine mid week games will see the most opt outs (especially for long distance ST holders like me).

 

[Uter]

What about the ‘We don’t open parts of the ground if we can’t get enough fans in there’ rule?

How many fans will be in the West Upper? 2,000?

I assumed they will have to open all areas of the stadium. If they shut parts of the stadium then the total seats they can sell will be proportionally reduced I'd imagine.

 

[kevo]

I sent an email to PB about this yesterday. I have posted the contents and reply below.


Dear Mr Barber.

I have noticed in the information concerning future attendance of the Amex, that one of the conditions of entry will be that we all must have the App live on their phones.
This will present a major problem for the majority of your fans.
The app will only run on the latest version of the IOS. Only a small minority of us have the shiny new IPhone running IOS13.5. The rest of us have older phones that are incapable of accessing this option. I think you will find that a significant number of older members of the population (such as my Father-in-Law) don't even have smartphones at all.
Some of us are not in the financial position to purchase a £1000+ phone just to enable us to attend our club’s matches. I realise that you are not responsible for creating an app that will not run on the vast majority of the population’s hardware.
I am afraid that the government have made a grave error by commissioning the writing of this app and are guilty of using the general public’s money to ostracise most of the people paying for it. I know this is not your fault and that you are trying to follow the guidelines and protect your match goers at the stadium, but if we have no access to one of the main requirements then something is very wrong and very unfair.
I hope you will bring this to the attention of the powers that be because someone needs to shed light on this inequity.

This was the reply.


Thank you for your email.

I haven’t seen any details for the Government’s track and trace app, and neither am I a technology expert, so I’m afraid I am unable to comment.

The club will however be required to follow whatever guidelines are determined by the Government to allow supporters returning to the stadium.

Best wishes, Paul

There is another issue with using the track and trace app (for me, at least). The club have stipulated that the app MUST be used (under the insistence of the government), and people will not be able to sign in manually, etc. I can't be the only one reluctant to give my data to Dominic Cummings and the cabal currently running the country. According to this article in the Civil Service journal, your personal data will be kept by a private company for seven years. What are they going to use this for?



https://www.civilserviceworld.com/n...ose-and-narrative-for-new-test-and-trace-body

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

There is another issue with using the track and trace app (for me, at least). The club have stipulated that the app MUST be used (under the insistence of the government), and people will not be able to sign in manually, etc. I can't be the only one reluctant to give my data to Dominic Cummings and the cabal currently running the country. According to this article in the Civil Service journal, your personal data will be kept by a private company for seven years. What are they going to use this for?

View attachment 127329

https://www.civilserviceworld.com/n...ose-and-narrative-for-new-test-and-trace-body

Agreed. But as [MENTION=6886]Bozza[/MENTION] stated earlier, policing such an app, even under reduced capacity, would be nigh on impossible. And all the smaller children would also have to be overlooked. I still can't think the club or govt would stop older people going to matches if they were chosen. My parents will never own a smartphone and although they don't go, I know a few older fans do who also don't want them.

 

[Bozza]

Yeah, I am sure they have analysed it. Given that we don't know how long restrictions will be in place and the capacity is highly likely to be variable for this period, I think the random approach is fair enough for now. Complicating it could be a big admin burden. They must be juggling a million and one things at present.

Whilst I agree with this approach, and see that some sort of ongoing "fairness" variable to ballots on a match by match basis is not practical, it would be good to have some sort of check-point, say after nine games, whereby any imbalances could be addressed by trying to give greater priority to those who have come out of the first half of the season badly.

It's not inconceivable that come Christmas there could be some fans who wanted to go to every game but missed out on every ballot.

 

[Uter]

There is another issue with using the track and trace app (for me, at least). The club have stipulated that the app MUST be used (under the insistence of the government), and people will not be able to sign in manually, etc. I can't be the only one reluctant to give my data to Dominic Cummings and the cabal currently running the country. According to this article in the Civil Service journal, your personal data will be kept by a private company for seven years. What are they going to use this for?

View attachment 127329

https://www.civilserviceworld.com/n...ose-and-narrative-for-new-test-and-trace-body

You are not the only one. I don't want the app. I think there are too many people in government who view the pandemic as an opportunity to circumvent the usual procedures and checks for their own political or financial gain. Maybe my distrust is unwarranted but I am uneasy about using it.

 

[kevo]

Agreed. But as [MENTION=6886]Bozza[/MENTION] stated earlier, policing such an app, even under reduced capacity, would be nigh on impossible. And all the smaller children would also have to be overlooked. I still can't think the club or govt would stop older people going to matches if they were chosen. My parents will never own a smartphone and although they don't go, I know a few older fans do who also don't want them.

What I also don't undertand is that if ALL tickets are accounted for and assigned to named season ticket holders with photo ID, the club already know who is in the ground, where they are sitting, and have their contact details. Why do they need this information again?

I think it's a government data-gathering exercise.

 

[kevo]

You are not the only one. I don't want the app. I think they're are too many people in government who view the pandemic as an opportunity to circumvent the usual procedures and checks for their own political or financial gain. Maybe my distrust is unwarranted but I am uneasy about using it.

And, as I say above, there is no need to do it. The club will know who is in the ground and have our contact details already. So if anyone is later discovered to be Covid-19 positive, they can easily contact the people who were sitting near them at the match.

 

[BeHereNow]

I assumed they will have to open all areas of the stadium. If they shut parts of the stadium then the total seats they can sell will be proportionally reduced I'd imagine.

I just find it a bit funny that they used to make such a big deal out of it before and are now willing to do it for a whole season. Maybe it’s easier to budget for this time.

 

[Uter]

Whilst I agree with this approach, and see that some sort of ongoing "fairness" variable to ballots on a match by match basis is not practical, it would be good to have some sort of check-point, say after nine games, whereby any imbalances could be addressed by trying to give greater priority to those who have come out of the first half of the season badly.

It's not inconceivable that come Christmas there could be some fans who wanted to go to every game but missed out on every ballot.

Yes, the longer it drags on the more impetus there will be to do something along the lines of your suggestion, otherwise we are going to have a lot of people at the extremes. I think if they knew it was going to last that long then they'd do that from the outset. In the short and medium term, randomness does not equate to fairness. In the short term I think (which to me is 4 or 5 matches) people will have some goodwill and be understanding, but after that the losers may get more and more aggravated with each unsuccessful ballot.

 

[BeHereNow]

There is another issue with using the track and trace app (for me, at least). The club have stipulated that the app MUST be used (under the insistence of the government), and people will not be able to sign in manually, etc. I can't be the only one reluctant to give my data to Dominic Cummings and the cabal currently running the country. According to this article in the Civil Service journal, your personal data will be kept by a private company for seven years. What are they going to use this for?

View attachment 127329

https://www.civilserviceworld.com/n...ose-and-narrative-for-new-test-and-trace-body

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