[Football] Possible return of fans for some Pre-Season games? (Times article)

[BLOCK F]

Wow, this thread is getting quite 'frothy', but one thing is certain, social distancing is unsustainable on both economic and normal human interaction grounds.
When it will end, I have absolutely no idea, but I sincerely hope it isn't going to be too long a wait.
What conditions will have to be met before the powers that be, the world over, say,' you are now free'?
Anyway, I reckon that nothing much will change before winter is over. Governments will want to see how things go during the colder weather.

 

[PeterOut]

There are currently more NHS hospital in England than there are Covid patients in them. For this we’ve trashed our economy, which will lead to health issues, and then there’s the ticking time bomb of undiagnosed and untreated cancer. And then there’s the mental health aspect too.

I find this selective quoting of 'facts' to support an argument (often copied and pasted from something else posted on the internet, almost never with any with any verifiable link to the source) beyond iritating.

Covid patients are highly likely (but not certainly) to be treated in a Cat 1 A&E hospital. There are about 180 of these A&E depts in England - see https://www.kingsfund.org.uk/projects/urgent-emergency-care/urgent-and-emergency-care-mythbusters#:~:text=As%20of%20March%202020%2C%20there,1%20emergency%20departments%20in%20England.

On 14th Aug there were 925 patients being treated for Covid (75 on ventilators) - https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/

Yes, there are more hospitals than the number of A&E depts mentioned above. They will include specialist cancer centres, childrens hospitals, mental health hospitals, minor 'cottage hospital' sites, and plenty of others. The total number of hospitals often includes private hospitals that perform procedures for the NHS (such as the Horder Centre in Crowborough).

Please consider the use of stats - wild statements do not make your arguments any stronger and for me, in this case, very much the opposite.

 

[darkwolf666]

You’re the one that believes everything the Tory government tells you.

And three million dying?

Were you one of these people that said that if people had VE Day celebrations then there’d be a second wave? Or if they went to the beach? Or if they went to a protest in London? If so, get someone to explain this to you.

View attachment 127161

Ok, the government asked over 2.2 million people to shield. These were people who have conditions that make it very likely to become extremely ill if they contract Covid-19.

My understanding is those with underlying serious health issues (shielders), who end up in hospital, have a less than 20% chance of recovery.

So as you are clearly a conspiracy theorist, can you explain why governments all around the world have all been duped into destroying their economies - is this a dual grab for world domination organised by China and Sweden?

 

[drew]

But where does my duty of care to other people end? Should everyone be banned from driving in case they hit somebody? I’m perfectly healthy yet, along with everyone else, has been treated as a biohazard this year and that’s insane.

If this was an actual pandemic, everyone would know someone who’d died of Covid and the hospitals would be full. That’s not the case though, is it? In fact, if it wasn’t for the masks and the constant media coverage, would anyone even know about this?

So you've been regularly tested and they've all been negative.

As for lockdown, you have no idea what the issues could have been if everyone had continued on as they did before lockdown. Had the infection rate been above 1 and more people required ITU intervention then in all likelihood the beds wouldn't have been available.

As for your crass comment about your responsibility to others! Perhaps we shouldn't give a damn about you and your family. Maybe, if any of your family do have underlying conditions then, based on your comments, they might as well shuffle of their mortal coil now! However, I would suggest most posters on here don't take that view.

 

[drew]

We were told the lockdown was to flatten the curve. The curve is completely flat (and there’s a big question mark against the death figures as they are. Died with is not the same as died from.)

The narrative now seems to be no normality until people stop dying of anything.

Oh and notice how the media and politicians now talk of coronavirus not Covid-19 (the common cold is a coronavirus) and of infections instead of hospitalisation sand deaths.

That comment about died with and not from is trotted out so many times. The figures that have been presented are people that died and had had a positive Covid test. It is not saying they didn't die of Covid or that they did. The best way to measure is the excess deaths.

As for nit picking about whether it is called covid or coronavirus, we all know what they mean.

Finally, there is a slow return to normality, but it is a cautious approach.

 

[LamieRobertson]

Wow, this thread is getting quite 'frothy', but one thing is certain, social distancing is unsustainable on both economic and normal human interaction grounds.
When it will end, I have absolutely no idea, but I sincerely hope it isn't going to be too long a wait.
What conditions will have to be met before the powers that be, the world over, say,' you are now free'?
Anyway, I reckon that nothing much will change before winter is over. Governments will want to see how things go during the colder weather.

Almost a candidate for the bear pit

 

[BeHereNow]

I just want to get back to the ground, singing our songs and watching us win. I’m not sure if we ever will be allowed to again.

 

[drew]

I just want to get back to the ground, singing our songs and watching us win. I’m not sure if we ever will be allowed to again.

What exactly is the point of posting that chart? It is meaningless as it it shows the effect of Covid taking into account the lockdown. In none of the cases of flu was a lockdown initiated. Different situations. What you need to consider is what would have been the global effect if countries didn't use lockdown.

 

[BeHereNow]

What exactly is the point of posting that chart? It is meaningless as it it shows the effect of Covid taking into account the lockdown. In none of the cases of flu was a lockdown initiated. Different situations. What you need to consider is what would have been the global effect if countries didn't use lockdown.

I wasn’t supposed to post it, but it shows it’s nowhere near as bad as they said it would be. I happen to think the lockdown has killed and will kill more people in the long run.

 

[drew]

I wasn’t supposed to post it, but it shows it’s nowhere near as bad as they said it would be. I happen to think the lockdown has killed and will kill more people in the long run.
View attachment 127189

A link to the article would be nice rather than a selective quote.