Possible bad news for a B777 [Malaysian MH370]

[Bold Seagull]

Neal Stephenson's book - 'Reamde' has a plot line in which a terrorist hijacks a plane and through a controlled dive and doubling back at the point at which one air traffic control passes the plane onto another, the plane effectively disappears. In the story they crash land in a remote location in Canada after flying from China passing over Indonesia. Their disappearance is a mystery.

 

[beorhthelm]

I think they have more information than they are letting on, they are being very cagey

or they don't have a scooby. as i understand it, radar doesn't cover that far out, they rely on the transponder. if there was a sudden failure or other reason for loss of height one has to assume the captain may not be capable to communicate or the comms is down as a result of the failure. so far it all seems very similar to the France Air incident that went down in the South Atlantic, when they recovered the black box and investigated, iirc they found it was likely sudden icing on the wings, a not unheard of problem. fact is the only weird thing here so far is the passenger passport matter.

Shot down?

the conspiracist are trying to work this in, with the story that an IBM and other software company executive where on the plane and had to be got at.

 

[Cian]

Neal Stephenson's book - 'Reamde' has a plot line in which a terrorist hijacks a plane and through a controlled dive and doubling back at the point at which one air traffic control passes the plane onto another, the plane effectively disappears. In the story they crash land in a remote location in Canada after flying from China passing over Indonesia. Their disappearance is a mystery.

Which is completely impossible, and in a scifi book.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

or they don't have a scooby. as i understand it, radar doesn't cover that far out, they rely on the transponder. if there was a sudden failure or other reason for loss of height one has to assume the captain may not be capable to communicate or the comms is down as a result of the failure. so far it all seems very similar to the France Air incident that went down in the South Atlantic, when they recovered the black box and investigated, iirc they found it was likely sudden icing on the wings, a not unheard of problem. fact is the only weird thing here so far is the passenger passport matter.



the conspiracist are trying to work this in, with the story that an IBM and other software company executive where on the plane and had to be got at.

Traveling on a stolen passport in Asia isn't that rare.

 

[Icy Gull]

or they don't have a scooby. as i understand it, radar doesn't cover that far out, they rely on the transponder. if there was a sudden failure or other reason for loss of height one has to assume the captain may not be capable to communicate or the comms is down as a result of the failure. so far it all seems very similar to the France Air incident that went down in the South Atlantic, when they recovered the black box and investigated, iirc they found it was likely sudden icing on the wings, a not unheard of problem. fact is the only weird thing here so far is the passenger passport matter.



the conspiracist are trying to work this in, with the story that an IBM and other software company executive where on the plane and had to be got at.

The Air France flight was in severe turbulence wasn't it and it transpired that it was pilot error in panicking when warning lights flashed up??

EDIT Just googled it

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/missing-ma...ance-flight-447-that-killed-all-board-1439572

 

[Guinness Boy]

or they don't have a scooby. as i understand it, radar doesn't cover that far out, they rely on the transponder. if there was a sudden failure or other reason for loss of height one has to assume the captain may not be capable to communicate or the comms is down as a result of the failure. so far it all seems very similar to the France Air incident that went down in the South Atlantic, when they recovered the black box and investigated, iirc they found it was likely sudden icing on the wings, a not unheard of problem. fact is the only weird thing here so far is the passenger passport matter.



the conspiracist are trying to work this in, with the story that an IBM and other software company executive where on the plane and had to be got at.

Oi, stop it with the rational common sense, this is NSC!

 

[Bold Seagull]

Which is completely impossible, and in a scifi book.

It's not a sci fi book. It is fiction though, so yes it could well be impossible, or even completely impossible if impossible isn't impossible enough.

 

[Stumpy Tim]

or they don't have a scooby. as i understand it, radar doesn't cover that far out, they rely on the transponder. if there was a sudden failure or other reason for loss of height one has to assume the captain may not be capable to communicate or the comms is down as a result of the failure. so far it all seems very similar to the France Air incident that went down in the South Atlantic, when they recovered the black box and investigated, iirc they found it was likely sudden icing on the wings, a not unheard of problem. fact is the only weird thing here so far is the passenger passport matter.

The passport thing isn't that weird either. A plane in India went down a few years ago and there were 15 passengers on stolen passports on the flight. It's highlighted the illegal immigration problem, but I doubt very much it is relevant in the plane going down. I suspect wreckage will be found

 

[Bold Seagull]

or they don't have a scooby. as i understand it, radar doesn't cover that far out, they rely on the transponder. if there was a sudden failure or other reason for loss of height one has to assume the captain may not be capable to communicate or the comms is down as a result of the failure. so far it all seems very similar to the France Air incident that went down in the South Atlantic, when they recovered the black box and investigated, iirc they found it was likely sudden icing on the wings, a not unheard of problem. fact is the only weird thing here so far is the passenger passport matter.

It wasn't icing on the wings, it was icing of the pitot tubes (pressure sensors) that led to the autopilot being switched off that in turn led to the pilots (probably in an emotionally charged panicked state) making some fatal corrections that caused the plane to climb, eventually stall, then fall out of the sky.

 

[The Wizard]

All very strange really how a plan vanishes without a trace in this day an age of Radars and the like. Talking from a realistic perspective it's probably gone down in the sea somewhere but who knows in reality? It could have been hijacked and flown somewhere as yet unknown. Unlikely, but can't rule it out yet.

Quite horrendous for relatives though, the hope of something like that is probably going to make it more difficult to accept if the expected has indeed happened.

 

[Kuipers Supporters Club]

It wasn't icing on the wings, it was icing of the pitot tubes (pressure sensors) that led to the autopilot being switched off that in turn led to the pilots (probably in an emotionally charged panicked state) making some fatal corrections that caused the plane to climb, eventually stall, then fall out of the sky.

Exactly, Air France was Pilot error. As for being in an emotionally charged state - they did the opposite of what they were supposed to do, The Captain left the flight deck and 15 minuets later everyone on board had been killed. I read the transcript, when they eventually find this plane - that will make for very sad, but interesting listening.

 

[Bold Seagull]

Exactly, Air France was Pilot error. As for being in an emotionally charged state - they did the opposite of what they were supposed to do, The Captain left the flight deck and 15 minuets later everyone on board had been killed. I read the transcript, when they eventually find this plane - that will make for very sad, but interesting listening.

It was normal to have a captain and 2 co-pilots for these flights, so the captain going for a nap was perfectly normal. What they'd never been trained for was realising the speed sensors were unreliable beyond a certain altitude. They just didn't have the experience to deal with split second decisions that needed to be made. It was concluded that the errors that followed were the outcome of a confluence of factors beyond the competence of any individual pilot.

 

[half time scores]

It wasn't icing on the wings, it was icing of the pitot tubes (pressure sensors) that led to the autopilot being switched off that in turn led to the pilots (probably in an emotionally charged panicked state) making some fatal corrections that caused the plane to climb, eventually stall, then fall out of the sky.

The co-pilot was at the controls who was inexperienced.

The frozen pitot tubes meant that he believed that his airspeed was higher than it was and kept pulling back on the stick.

 

[Bozza]

All very strange really how a plan vanishes without a trace in this day an age of Radars and the like. Talking from a realistic perspective it's probably gone down in the sea somewhere but who knows in reality? It could have been hijacked and flown somewhere as yet unknown. Unlikely, but can't rule it out yet.

Radar operates on line of sight. The curvature of the Earth is such that radar does not cover big expanses of ocean.

The planes have GPS, of course, but that tells the plane (and crew) where it is - that location is not broadcast back to anywhere during the flight.

 

[Cian]

The planes have GPS, of course, but that tells the plane (and crew) where it is - that location is not broadcast back to anywhere during the flight.

Well it is - over ADS-B, unless the transponder is turned off, and that's also of no use if its not in coverage for an ADS-B receiver. (not posting to contradict here). The amount of people who assume that GPS is two-way still astounds me.

 

[SeagullinExile]

It was normal to have a captain and 2 co-pilots for these flights, so the captain going for a nap was perfectly normal. What they'd never been trained for was realising the speed sensors were unreliable beyond a certain altitude. They just didn't have the experience to deal with split second decisions that needed to be made. It was concluded that the errors that followed were the outcome of a confluence of factors beyond the competence of any individual pilot.

Here's a good documentary on the crash. Be warned though, it has some very harrowing voice recordings from the cockpit.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-hzuV570Hk0

 

[SeagullinExile]

Here's a good documentary on the crash. Be warned though, it has some very harrowing voice recordings from the cockpit.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-hzuV570Hk0

I forgot to add, the recordings are re-enacted (accurately supposedly), but harrowing none the less.

 

[Icy Gull]

I forgot to add, the recordings are re-enacted (accurately supposedly), but harrowing none the less.

As I'm flying long haul on Wednesday I think I'll give that a miss....I'm a shit flyer at the best of times

 

[Guy Fawkes]

The Air France flight was in severe turbulence wasn't it and it transpired that it was pilot error in panicking when warning lights flashed up??

EDIT Just googled it

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/missing-ma...ance-flight-447-that-killed-all-board-1439572

There was a very good documentary on the Air France crash on channel 4 called 'Fatal flight 447: Choas in the cockpit'

The cause of the crash was that the speed sensors froze up and the auto pilot could not longer tell how fast the plane was going and handed control back to the pilots.

The captian was asleep but the co-pilot and the junior pilot were at the controls, the junior pilot was flying the plane and given the information he had, thought that the plane was travelling too fast so lifted the nose to try to slow it down but this caused a stall and the plane lost altitude. The other pilot took over but didn't give the usual audio i have control and the junior pilot was still pulling back on the controls trying to slow the plane without the co-pilot knowing until they realised and it was too late. They could have saved themselves by diving a bit to gain speed again but the co-pilot didn't know that the plane was stalling because of this climb.

The part that froze has been replaced on all planes that used to have them and training of pilots has been altered because pilots arn't used to flying planes as it's normally left to the auto pilot

well worth a watch on youtube
[yt]reaYqrdCRMg[/yt]

 

[Leighgull]

Broke up at 30k.the wreck will be tiny bits over about 1,000 sq miles of open ocean. Poor, poor people.