[Other Sport] Poor Serena

[hart's shirt]

Yep!

"Novak Djokovic, who won a third men's US Open title on Sunday, said the interventions by Ramos were "unnecessary" and that they "changed the course of the match".

"I have my personal opinion that maybe the chair umpire should not have pushed Serena to the limit, especially in a Grand Slam final," the Serb said.

But Djokovic said he did not agree with Simon's comments, adding: "I don't understand from where he's coming with that statement."

The 14-time Grand Slam champion also described the situation as "tough" for the umpire and said "we have to empathise with him"."

As it's important to quote fully in the interests of balance, this is from the same article:

British former player Andrew Castle said Simon should be "ashamed" of his comments.

"The accusation of sexism which was levelled by Serena Williams in her press conference after the woman's final needs to be backed up," he told BBC Radio Four's Today programme.

"Otherwise she could be accused of bringing the game into disrepute."

Zimbabwean Cara Black, winner of 10 Grand Slam titles in doubles and mixed doubles, said she felt sorry for Ramos.

"He was just doing his job out there and calling Serena on what he saw. She lost control of her emotions. I don't think sexism was a part in it," she said.

"She had a match on her hands against Naomi. I've seen it happen a few times where she starts to bully the situation and try to intimidate her opponents a little bit and she comes with these outbursts."

 

[Springal]

About time Serena Williams was bought down a peg or 2. She thinks she is bigger than the game

 

[chimneys]

As it's important to quote fully in the interests of balance, this is from the same article:

British former player Andrew Castle said Simon should be "ashamed" of his comments.

"The accusation of sexism which was levelled by Serena Williams in her press conference after the woman's final needs to be backed up," he told BBC Radio Four's Today programme.

"Otherwise she could be accused of bringing the game into disrepute."

Zimbabwean Cara Black, winner of 10 Grand Slam titles in doubles and mixed doubles, said she felt sorry for Ramos.

"He was just doing his job out there and calling Serena on what he saw. She lost control of her emotions. I don't think sexism was a part in it," she said.

"She had a match on her hands against Naomi. I've seen it happen a few times where she starts to bully the situation and try to intimidate her opponents a little bit and she comes with these outbursts."

Eh? I fully quoted the section about Djokovic, as that was the point raised by the poster I was responding to.

You are clearly mixing quotes with whole articles now.

 

[hart's shirt]

Eh? I fully quoted the section about Djokovic, as that was the point raised by the poster I was responding to.

You are clearly mixing quotes with whole articles now.

Ok then, would you like to respond to this part of the same article which I quoted for purposes of balance?

Other players are coming out against Serena now.

 

[chimneys]

Ok then, would you like to respond to this part of the same article which I quoted for purposes of balance?

Other players are coming out against Serena now.

There are lots of for/against in that article (e.g Azarenka at the end) and all over social media. Its going to need a forensic investigation to determine whether she was treated differently from a male player.

All I do know is that I was at the Wimbledon Quarter this year when Serena played, and you could feel the elitist tennis establishment willing Serena to lose. No thought to where she's come from, the prejudice she's faced (and I'm sure subliminally still does) and the fact she had very recently come back from childbirth. She is light years from their archetypal best female women's tennis player ever. And I love her for that!

 

[hart's shirt]

There are lots of for/against in that article (e.g Azarenka at the end) and all over social media. Its going to need a forensic investigation to determine whether she was treated differently from a male player.

All I do know is that I was at the Wimbledon Quarter this year when Serena played, and you could feel the elitist tennis establishment willing Serena to lose. No thought to where she's come from, the prejudice she's faced (and I'm sure subliminally still does) and the fact she had very recently come back from childbirth. She is light years from their archetypal best female women's tennis player ever. And I love her for that!

Thanks for the the response. We're largely in agreement here, which is refreshing. I always enjoy reading your posts, so nothing personal at all from my side and apologies if it came across that way.

IMO Serena's the greatest female player since Graf combining power, athleticism and strokeplay. When she's on her game, she's very difficult to beat. I certainly admire the way how she's juggling motherhood with her tennis, for the most part very successfully. And the stories that one hears about the sisters stepping over hypodermic needles to access the courts as children certainly inspires respect for making it despite the odds stacked heavily against them.

It's more than a shame that tennis and a few other sports are still perceived to be 'off-limits' to young players of colour. There have been some initiatives in recent years, but there's still some way to go. In answer to the question of 'where are all the young English black cricketers' on the BBC website comments section, someone else posted 'they're all playing football'. Many a true word spoken in jest and all that.

All of that said, with power (and athleticism and strokeplay) comes responsibility. Regardless of background, gender and match circumstance, I think she should apologize for her verbal and racquet abuse now that the chalk dust has settled. She talks about her daughter a lot and being a good example, so it's time to recognize that there are other young daughters (and sons) watching her actions. As we all know from football and parenting, children imitate adults in many ways. The coach should certainly shoulder his part of the blame too here. Whether coaching should be allowed or is not is a fair question now. It happens in most other sports, so why not? However, that's not the rules now so he doesn't really have a leg to stand on.

Fining Serena less than 1% of her winnings is laughable and certainly wouldn't encourage any lasting behavioural change. Footballers get fined a week's wages, cricketers get docked 50% of their match fee. I don't know how they've come up with that figure. Certainly the sexism argument will linger on and will hopefully inspire some changes. The stats on the penalties given in that article look about 50-50 with men getting the most in some areas and women the most in others. Consistency from umpires is essential here. It didn't help with Kyrgios getting some special attention earlier in the men's competition.

The question of whether women play 5 sets or men play 3 is probably on the table now too. Personally, I'd hate it if men played only 3 having been to see the 2001 Ivanisevic v Rafter final at Wimbledon. 9-7 in the 5th to Goran who won it as a Wild Card. Great game!

 

[Weststander]

Yep!

"Novak Djokovic, who won a third men's US Open title on Sunday, said the interventions by Ramos were "unnecessary" and that they "changed the course of the match".

"I have my personal opinion that maybe the chair umpire should not have pushed Serena to the limit, especially in a Grand Slam final," the Serb said.

But Djokovic said he did not agree with Simon's comments, adding: "I don't understand from where he's coming with that statement."

The 14-time Grand Slam champion also described the situation as "tough" for the umpire and said "we have to empathise with him"."

We can keep quoting third parties and there are countless others who think her behaviour was appalling. At the end of the day, they are just opinions and no one will ever agree on this.

Ex tour official Mike Morrissey on 5live was good value this evening. Rather than jumping on one side or another, he very calmly went through the events and related each step to the rules and sprirt of the rules. He explained that:
1. Williams's attack on the ref, was a prima facie higher breach of a personal attack. That is dealt with more severely than general profanities uttered during games, because they are aimed at an individual.
2. The umpire took a step back to allow Williams's red mist to clear. That is commonly done to defuse player red mist. But Williams came back at him again and again, wanting more, culminating in the abuse. With that, the umpire had no other recourse.

 

[Saunders]

If United will smash everyone, that suggests that it's not a competitive league (at least this season) and isn't comparable to the men's equivalent.

That's the point.

It will be a competitive league just that this season it wont because of the changing of the rules it has nothing to do with womens football not being competitive. Thats why its a terrible comparison.

Next year the newly founded United team will be promoted to where they should be.

 

[PILTDOWN MAN]

It will be a competitive league just that this season it wont because of the changing of the rules it has nothing to do with womens football not being competitive. Thats why its a terrible comparison.

Next year the newly founded United team will be promoted to where they should be.

So unlike every other football league you're saying they should just rise to the top.

 

[PILTDOWN MAN]

All of this is a tad silly all she needs to do is put the kettle on. make us all a nice cup of tea and we'll sort it out. There's a good girl off you pop.

Easiest thing to do in all seriousness is only use same sex officials.

 

[Weststander]

All of this is a tad silly all she needs to do is put the kettle on. make us all a nice cup of tea and we'll sort it out. There's a good girl off you pop.

Easiest thing to do in all seriousness is only use same sex officials.

That would be caving in to bad loser Williams.

Besides, her abuse against officials in losing at the US Open in 2009 and 2011 ..... was against women. No one can acuse Williams of being sexist.

 

[Lower West Stander]

All of this is a tad silly all she needs to do is put the kettle on. make us all a nice cup of tea and we'll sort it out. There's a good girl off you pop.

Easiest thing to do in all seriousness is only use same sex officials.

Nah - all that would happen then is Williams would get penalised the same but say it wasn’t fair because a woman was the umpire and not a man.




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[GT49er]

It will be a competitive league just that this season it wont because of the changing of the rules it has nothing to do with womens football not being competitive. Thats why its a terrible comparison.

Next year the newly founded United team will be promoted to where they should be.

They've got to get past Lewes yet - they started off pretty well too! Brighton Ladies could be playing them at the Dripping Pan next season.

 

[hart's shirt]

It will be a competitive league just that this season it wont because of the changing of the rules it has nothing to do with womens football not being competitive. Thats why its a terrible comparison.

Next year the newly founded United team will be promoted to where they should be.

Yes, women's football is competitive at the very top WSL level, but from Championship downwards with that United score, it's questionable.

And the further down one goes, the more the evidence is clear on this.

Here are some selected scores from last weekend's Women's FA Cup - 1st Round Qualifying

Leicester City Women 15, Coalville Town 0
Cambridge City 14, Riverside 0
Bishop's Stortford 0, Royston Town 11
Ashford Town 15, Wargrave 0
Basingstoke Town 0, Bournemouth 13
Marine Academy 13, Exeter 1

6 teams had a walkover as the other team either withdrew or were not accepted in the competition.

http://www.thefa.com/competitions/womens/the-sse-womens-fa-cup/results

The equivalent stage for this year's men's competition?

No team scored double figures - the highest number of goals scored was 7. No team had a walkover. Much more competitive.

http://www.thefa.com/competitions/thefacup/results

That's not sexist, a reflection on whether or not women's football should be played or supported or a comment on the football quality.

It's an observation that it can't really be compared in terms of competitiveness with the men's game for a number of reasons.

Only a year ago, Notts County Women's top-flight team folded due to financial pressures.

All that said, the good work that many clubs including the Albion are doing to support women's football is to be welcomed for sure.

 

[Dave the OAP]

Without being accused by serena of being a sexist, did anyone clock the comic keeping for Bristol city's goal by our keeper?

It was a hoof towards goal and our keeper did a Seaman ...flapping comically at the ball as it dropped in

 

[portlock seagull]

All of this is a tad silly all she needs to do is put the kettle on. make us all a nice cup of tea and we'll sort it out. There's a good girl off you pop.

Easiest thing to do in all seriousness is only use same sex officials.

Is it time to send in an expert in gender equality?

https://youtu.be/imr8WKuqFZo

 

[chimneys]

Thanks for the the response. We're largely in agreement here, which is refreshing. I always enjoy reading your posts, so nothing personal at all from my side and apologies if it came across that way.

IMO Serena's the greatest female player since Graf combining power, athleticism and strokeplay. When she's on her game, she's very difficult to beat. I certainly admire the way how she's juggling motherhood with her tennis, for the most part very successfully. And the stories that one hears about the sisters stepping over hypodermic needles to access the courts as children certainly inspires respect for making it despite the odds stacked heavily against them.

It's more than a shame that tennis and a few other sports are still perceived to be 'off-limits' to young players of colour. There have been some initiatives in recent years, but there's still some way to go. In answer to the question of 'where are all the young English black cricketers' on the BBC website comments section, someone else posted 'they're all playing football'. Many a true word spoken in jest and all that.

All of that said, with power (and athleticism and strokeplay) comes responsibility. Regardless of background, gender and match circumstance, I think she should apologize for her verbal and racquet abuse now that the chalk dust has settled. She talks about her daughter a lot and being a good example, so it's time to recognize that there are other young daughters (and sons) watching her actions. As we all know from football and parenting, children imitate adults in many ways. The coach should certainly shoulder his part of the blame too here. Whether coaching should be allowed or is not is a fair question now. It happens in most other sports, so why not? However, that's not the rules now so he doesn't really have a leg to stand on.

Fining Serena less than 1% of her winnings is laughable and certainly wouldn't encourage any lasting behavioural change. Footballers get fined a week's wages, cricketers get docked 50% of their match fee. I don't know how they've come up with that figure. Certainly the sexism argument will linger on and will hopefully inspire some changes. The stats on the penalties given in that article look about 50-50 with men getting the most in some areas and women the most in others. Consistency from umpires is essential here. It didn't help with Kyrgios getting some special attention earlier in the men's competition.

The question of whether women play 5 sets or men play 3 is probably on the table now too. Personally, I'd hate it if men played only 3 having been to see the 2001 Ivanisevic v Rafter final at Wimbledon. 9-7 in the 5th to Goran who won it as a Wild Card. Great game!

Thanks for that well considered post.

 

[chimneys]

We can keep quoting third parties and there are countless others who think her behaviour was appalling. At the end of the day, they are just opinions and no one will ever agree on this.

Ex tour official Mike Morrissey on 5live was good value this evening. Rather than jumping on one side or another, he very calmly went through the events and related each step to the rules and sprirt of the rules. He explained that:
1. Williams's attack on the ref, was a prima facie higher breach of a personal attack. That is dealt with more severely than general profanities uttered during games, because they are aimed at an individual.
2. The umpire took a step back to allow Williams's red mist to clear. That is commonly done to defuse player red mist. But Williams came back at him again and again, wanting more, culminating in the abuse. With that, the umpire had no other recourse.

If you’d have bothered to respond to my last post before yours, would have saved you having to type most of your first paragraph!

 

[Surrey Phil]

All of this is a tad silly all she needs to do is put the kettle on. make us all a nice cup of tea and we'll sort it out. There's a good girl off you pop.

Easiest thing to do in all seriousness is only use same sex officials.

But there is another solution. How about separating the majors for men and women (like golf etc) and hold them at different times of the year. Then they can have whatever officials they want and best of all whatever they generate in revenue will dictate how much to pay the players. In truth, we all know the women’s game would generate a lot less revenue if this happened!

 

[carlzeiss]

But there is another solution. How about separating the majors for men and women (like golf etc) and hold them at different times of the year. Then they can have whatever officials they want and best of all whatever they generate in revenue will dictate how much to pay the players. In truth, we all know the women’s game would generate a lot less revenue if this happened!

Wimbledon for women only in June , the mens tournament held later in the year would be just great .