[Football] Poor old Bury

[Bold Seagull]

Then start listing some of the legitimate solutions that might avoid this happening again. As for the rest of your post, that's football, like it or not. There are plenty of teams with history playing in the national league, some have even bounced back others haven't. Or would you rather we had a system back in the day when teams had to be elected into the league. Bury have been badly run and without a saving consortium the sad end was inevitable. That said, there may well be a new team that will rise like AFC Wimbledon.

Also, hardly a ponzi scheme where a very small minority benefit from the demise of many. This is a case of one in one out.

Aldershot had to start again in tier 10, 5 leagues below the National league. It was 15 years before the shots got back to their previous level, and mainly down to the council owning their ground and working with them to retain their home. AFC is a different case entirely.

Admission to the EFL is through promotion, not the demise of another club as you seem to suggest is perfectly fine.

You’ve already suggested greater financial scrutiny, you could also look at rules making it far easier for clubs to get rid of failed owners - something we know all about and after running a club into near extinction and selling their ground from under them, it was still extremely difficult to remove the owner.

You can’t on the one hand say football clubs are at the heart of their communities and have a community value, and on the other hand simply shrug your shoulders when an incompetent owner destroys them. I’m surprised any of us can look at it without real empathy and in some ways anger that it’s starting to happen again.

 

[beorhthelm]

You can’t on the one hand say football clubs are at the heart of their communities and have a community value, and on the other hand simply shrug your shoulders when an incompetent owner destroys them. I’m surprised any of us can look at it without real empathy and in some ways anger that it’s starting to happen again.

it also seems difficult to keep saying clubs are part of the community when they rarely owned and run by the said community.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

The german model of ownership is, I assume, what you're leaning to and it may work but how would you introduce that. Existing owners/investors aren't just going to hand over control, especially if they are managing their finances adequately. The Premier League is never going to vote for a change like that and then you have the problem of a supporters trust club progressing through promotion and not being able to compete financially!

That's all well and good for teams with no ambition but how, using ourselves as an example, would we have ended up with the Amex and, probably as a consequence of that, premier league football, if the stadium wasn't owned by TB. Brighton and Hove authority would never have spent the money on a stadium fit for purpose and I suspect in these austere times, neither would any other local authority.

Surely, taking into account where we are now in terms of ownership, the best way forward would be better rules regarding governance by the EFL. eg. monitoring of loans, more transparency over transfer fees, tighter definition of fit and proper etc. However, for there to be changes, I presume the existing owners would have to vote for it!!

Then you need to look at the cost of that ambition and decide whether it is a price worth paying. Football is run for the benefit of the wealthy and I’m sure you are correct that at the moment that will not change. You asked for suggestions though and mine would make a difference if people cared enough about the game to pressure the league into taking action.

 

[Bold Seagull]

it also seems difficult to keep saying clubs are part of the community when they rarely owned and run by the said community.

Very true, but the same could be said of pubs, village halls and the like which might all be privately owned but considered community value. It’s a bit like heritage assets, they maybe privately owned but they are protected by law whether through historical listings or planning policy.

We’re at an unprecedented time of wealth and money in the game, and yet kids don’t have the grass cut on their local rec. for their Sunday morning matches, and well established historical clubs are going out of business. I don’t think now is the time for antipathy.

 

[drew]

Then you need to look at the cost of that ambition and decide whether it is a price worth paying. Football is run for the benefit of the wealthy and I’m sure you are correct that at the moment that will not change. You asked for suggestions though and mine would make a difference if people cared enough about the game to pressure the league into taking action.

Not entirely sure I agree with your first assertion. As far as I can tell, football is run for the benefit of the tv subscribers.

I'm not saying your suggestions wouldn't work just that for there to be change someone would need to vote for it and those that vote are the owners of the clubs, particularly in the premier league. Turkeys voting for xmas and all that.

 

[drew]

Aldershot had to start again in tier 10, 5 leagues below the National league. It was 15 years before the shots got back to their previous level, and mainly down to the council owning their ground and working with them to retain their home. AFC is a different case entirely.

Admission to the EFL is through promotion, not the demise of another club as you seem to suggest is perfectly fine.

Not necessarily. Due to Bury's demise, one less club will be relegated from the football league this season so the club finishing 91st is benefiting from the situation.

You’ve already suggested greater financial scrutiny, you could also look at rules making it far easier for clubs to get rid of failed owners - something we know all about and after running a club into near extinction and selling their ground from under them, it was still extremely difficult to remove the owner.

The problem is that the club is a business owned by the failed owner. Tighten the rules so clubs don't reach that point

You can’t on the one hand say football clubs are at the heart of their communities and have a community value, and on the other hand simply shrug your shoulders when an incompetent owner destroys them. I’m surprised any of us can look at it without real empathy and in some ways anger that it’s starting to happen again.

Football clubs are part of their communities but that is not dependent on them being in the football league or are you saying that those communities with national league teams (or leagues below that level) aren't equally the heart of their community. No one quite knows what will happen in Bury but history suggest there will be a team that rises from the ashes.

The reality of this situation is that it is, thankfully, not an everyday occurrence. Bury are the first team to be ejected from the league since Maidstone 27 years ago. Prior to that, Aldershot were forced to resign due to bankruptcy and in 61 Accrington Stanley went bust. That's three teams in 58 years. In the case of the first two, they both still have teams in those communities.

 

[Lenny Rider]

What did Steve Dale get for his £1 last December?

Just the debts, or the freehold of the ground?

 

[drew]

Very true, but the same could be said of pubs, village halls and the like which might all be privately owned but considered community value. It’s a bit like heritage assets, they maybe privately owned but they are protected by law whether through historical listings or planning policy.

We’re at an unprecedented time of wealth and money in the game, and yet kids don’t have the grass cut on their local rec. for their Sunday morning matches, and well established historical clubs are going out of business. I don’t think now is the time for antipathy.

Pubs and village halls are part of their communities but they don't have any protected status.

 

[drew]

What did Steve Dale get for his £1 last December?

Just the debts, or the freehold of the ground?

Presumably both but I'm guessing if the club goes into administration then the freehold will mean jackshit to him as it will merely be offset to pay creditors. The one thing that is in the clubs interest is that they could still be sold and prepare for life lower down the pyramid. Dale tried a bit a brinkmanship with the league but got it catastrophically wrong.

 

[Bold Seagull]

Football clubs are part of their communities but that is not dependent on them being in the football league or are you saying that those communities with national league teams (or leagues below that level) aren't equally the heart of their community. No one quite knows what will happen in Bury but history suggest there will be a team that rises from the ashes.

The reality of this situation is that it is, thankfully, not an everyday occurrence. Bury are the first team to be ejected from the league since Maidstone 27 years ago. Prior to that, Aldershot were forced to resign due to bankruptcy and in 61 Accrington Stanley went bust. That's three teams in 58 years. In the case of the first two, they both still have teams in those communities.

Around the end of the 80s, start of the 90s, the whole game was struggling and bankrupt, it wasn't awash with the finances it is now, the TV and sponsorship money, worldwide coverage etc. The alarming situation here is that 2 historically longest serving members of the football league are going under in a climate of unprecedented wealth in the game.

And back when we faced extinction, and when Maidstone and Aldershot went, the rules of ownership were changed, the game acted. You seem to be suggesting no action is required, whereas I am saying alarm bells should be ringing, fans up and down the country should realise it could be them next.

A team MAY rise from the ashes, but is that really an acceptable result of gross mismanagement when so many will have lost their jobs, so many creditors to the club will not be paid, the clubs assets will be liquidated.

Lets not sit back and accept this is just how it is. There has to be alternatives from the status quo. Fans need to start showing a bit more collective action I think.

 

[Bold Seagull]

Pubs and village halls are part of their communities but they don't have any protected status.

Some do under planning policy.

The Bury local authority have already stated they consider Gigg Lane protected under Assets of Community Value policy.

 

[drew]

And back when we faced extinction, and when Maidstone and Aldershot went, the rules of ownership were changed, the game acted. You seem to be suggesting no action is required, whereas I am saying alarm bells should be ringing, fans up and down the country should realise it could be them next.

A team MAY rise from the ashes, but is that really an acceptable result of gross mismanagement when so many will have lost their jobs, so many creditors to the club will not be paid, the clubs assets will be liquidated.

Where have I said no action is necessary? I have suggested tighter monitoring and regulation re fit and proper etc.

Exactly what can be done with regard to the Bury jobs, creditors etc? I suggest nothing as the horse has bolted. What the EFL need to do is try to ensure it doesn't arise again but whatever they do they will probably never be able to eliminate it 100%

 

[ukpolska]

This song was written and performed by a Bolton fan (Steven Millington) who was angry and upset with what has happened to Bury FC.



https://www.facebook.com/steven.millington.9/videos/2011622722273105/

 

[Thunder Bolt]

[tweet]1167435274567241729[/tweet]

 

[beorhthelm]

"the EFL failed to give a late rescue bid from a Brazilian millionaire enough of a chance"... hmmm. its fine these people saying the EFL haven't given them a chance, why was the bid so late in the day?

 

[Icy Gull]

Just imagine....Saturday comes and there is no Brighton and Hove Albion game and there won’t be at league level for a number of years at best. How absolutely gutting to be a Bury fan going into this weekend

I know we came close but there is a world of difference between that and what has happened to Bury. We feared it, they are living it.

 

[Nottseagull]

Football clubs are part of their communities but that is not dependent on them being in the football league or are you saying that those communities with national league teams (or leagues below that level) aren't equally the heart of their community. No one quite knows what will happen in Bury but history suggest there will be a team that rises from the ashes.

The reality of this situation is that it is, thankfully, not an everyday occurrence. Bury are the first team to be ejected from the league since Maidstone 27 years ago. Prior to that, Aldershot were forced to resign due to bankruptcy and in 61 Accrington Stanley went bust. That's three teams in 58 years. In the case of the first two, they both still have teams in those communities.

Nonsense, Accrington still play in the town!

 

[Ernest]

This song was written and performed by a Bolton fan (Steven Millington) who was angry and upset with what has happened to Bury FC.



https://www.facebook.com/steven.millington.9/videos/2011622722273105/

Haven't they suffered enough this week

 

[Ernest]

Just imagine....Saturday comes and there is no Brighton and Hove Albion game and there won’t be at league level for a number of years at best. How absolutely gutting to be a Bury fan going into this weekend

I know we came close but there is a world of difference between that and what has happened to Bury. We feared it, they are living it.

If the Bury fans in the town had actually gone to matches maybe they wouldn't have gone bust

 

[Seasider78]

"the EFL failed to give a late rescue bid from a Brazilian millionaire enough of a chance"... hmmm. its fine these people saying the EFL haven't given them a chance, why was the bid so late in the day?

All sounds a bit like the emails from the prince of Nigeria trying to deposit millions into my account