Poll : Scottish Independence vote and wanting to "Keep The Pound"

[beorhthelm]

So what you're saying is - a vote for Scottish independence while it is still tied with Sterling will put Scotland in a similar fiscal position as, say, Germany, France etc. - i.e. nominally independent, but financially tied?

comparison to Portugal or Ireland would be closer, they'd have no say as a very junior partner. as far as i can see, they'd have to defer powers to the BoE in case they do an Ireland and Portugal and run up a large tab on our credit card then not be able to pay. Or else not be able to borrow directly, in which case fiscal policy isn't independent anymore.

 

[cunning fergus]

So what you're saying is - a vote for Scottish independence while it is still tied with Sterling will put Scotland in a similar fiscal position as, say, Germany, France etc. - i.e. nominally independent, but financially tied? Though it will be more independent than these countries as - not being a member of the EU - it will decide all its own laws?

Have I got that right?

Kind of, they would nominally be like a country in the eurozone, but not Germany as within that monetary union, the Germans have the money/power/influence which is incidentally why the currency is not being devalued to an extent help the PIIGS economies.

Sure, the argument is that they are not de facto idependent now in the Union either, but that means they can only truly be independent with a scottish pound/dollar........an option that has been ruled out by the SNP.

In they voted "out" they would be able to introduce their own laws but they still be economically tied with the destiny of the remaining countries in the Union. If we had another crisis and the BOE instituted rounds of QE then the value of their currency would fall, and that would effect their exports and imports. This would effect their tax revenues, which would in turn would effect their ability to deliver their social policies and pay public sector employees. It would also effect their ability to borrow money on international markets by issuing GILTS etc.

The thing is, the question I understand they are to be asked is "Do you want Scotland to be an independent country".

If you vote "yes" this is not going to be the case.

 

[JetsetJimbo]

I'm not opposed to Scottish independence, but this currency union idea is barmy. There's only one recent comparator that comes to mind, that of the Czechs and Slovaks following their split. That currency union lasted six weeks, rather than the months-to-years planned, as a flight of capital from the weaker Slovak economy to the stronger Czech one made it completely untenable for Slovakia. If anything, the gap in the perceived weakness of the Scottish economy vs. that of the rump UK will be even greater. That the nationalists seem unaware of this makes me wonder whether they've skipped their homework on other issues.

 

[Lady Whistledown]

If Mel Gibson had made Braveheart based on historical fact rather than Hollywood Celtic whimsy we wouldn't even be having this blasted vote.

Ah yes, the ******* English, always the villains in any decent Hollywood piece.

 

[wardy wonder land]

This was in the Economist a while back;

http://www.economist.com/blogs/freeexchange/2013/09/scottish-independence

Does sound like we could saddle them with a lot of debt, thus meaning they would fail the criteria for the Euro (which Spain will block anyway) and tell them that Sterling is for the UK only.

addtionally can we not let them have RBS and BoS - with all the debts, as they are historically thiers ?

as a side note, i read at the weekend that ex-pat scotchies have a legal claim going to court to allow them to vote

(currently only residents of scotchland can vote including 16 year old s ?)

a nice little (if very unlikely) situation could arise from a yes vote

if yes, scotchies exist as a single country, EU membership is not a given, "newUK" can refuse dual nationality

ex-pats working in EU countries could be forceably repatriated to scotty as they have no open visa to work / live there

 

[jakarta]

There are too many people in Scotland who know how their Mars Bar gets Deep Fried for them to vote in favour of leaving.. surprisingly.

Tidied up for strict accuracy......

 

[maltaseagull]

There were always Scottish notes in circulation so they can use them. (= to €1)

Scots used to get really stroppy if a cashier asked if we could accept these notes!

 

[nicko31]

Really gets me that 8% of the UK population decide whether to break up the UK. If they vote yes, then next general election in England, Wales & NI the following should be asked...

Should the Scots be allowed to leave the UK?

If both votes get a "Yes" fair enough, they can go form their Scottish peso.

Why the hell did we let them have their own parliament in the first place, I blame the previous joke of a government..

 

[Insel affe]

Voted no, hope they vote for independence so we can invade them again and spank there sweaty backsides once again..... we all know history repeats its self again and again, will they never learn, Scotland belongs to the English.

 

[Elvis]

The latest opinion polls in Scotland suggest the result could be neck and neck as the campaign to garner a YES vote gathers momentum. Scotland should be allowed to retain the pound. With independence for Scotland this will shift the balance in favour of England , Wales and NI leaving the EU after a referendum of staying IN or OUT. There will be no referendum on leaving the EU if Labour return to power.

This is true, but it is interesting that the last time I viewed the bookies odds the No vote was 1-6 with the yes vote being 7-2. This surprised me and rather depressed me as I was rather hoping they would vote yes and bugger off.

 

[atfc village]

Banish him to the colonies?

Let him bask in his glory at Culloden.

 

[seagullsovergrimsby]

A research poll for The Times this week has revealed that if a referendum was held on leaving the EU right now the result would translate as 53-47 in favour of an exit. It looks like the recent poll on here doesn't truly reflect the picture elsewhere.

 

[Dandyman]

Yes, its simple.

You cannot be truly independent if you do not control your own currency.

In order for an independent country to exercise any level of meaningful control on its destiny, it must be able to influence the performance of its currency.

Those countries in the eurozone have materially deminished their independence by joining the euro and passed that influence to the ECB, and also (dare I say) those in institutions like the unelected EU Commission.

If we ignore the reasons why the PIIGS countries got into the eurozone and how they ended up in the financial cart, it is now evident that they have very little influence on their financial affairs, apart from how much they internally devalue to be more competitive at the behest of those in genuine control, which is the ECB, the EU Commission and ze Germans.

The tragedy is that politicians in those countries cannot offer their electorates any change (or hope) without influencing the ECB or EU Commission and consequently democracy has been thrown into the bin along with independence in those countries all as a direct consequence of having joined the euro.

Even worse is the fact that to resole the problems, deeper integration in the eurozone is required.............which means even less independence and even less deomcracy.

What else do you need to know?

Is any country genuinely in control of it's own economy when international capital is allowed to run riot ?

 

[Footsoldier]

There were always Scottish notes in circulation so they can use them. (= to €1)

Scots used to get really stroppy if a cashier asked if we could accept these notes!

Was going to ask about the Scottish note. Was in Waitrose Friday and they said we don't accept them so my question that I wanted to know is if they have Scottish notes then haven't they got their own currency anyway or am I missing something.

 

[Dandyman]

There is a currency union in place in most of Europe. I don't happen to want the UK to join the Euro but I suspect there are a fair number of companies who would. By the same token I suspect if Scotland was independent then most big companies would support a currency union unless they saw advantages in a devalued Scottish currency undercutting the rUK.

 

[easynow]

We love Scotland. We are ambitious for Scotland's people and Scotland's possibilities. Our case is not that Scotland could not survive as a separate country - it is that there's a better choice for our future.

A strong Scottish Parliament within the United Kingdom gives us the best of both worlds: real decision making power here in Scotland, as well as a key role in a strong and secure UK. Now and in the future Scotland is stronger as part of the United Kingdom and the United Kingdom is stronger with Scotland as a partner.

In the UK the BBC and the Bank of England were founded by Scotsmen. The NHS was founded by a Welshman. The State Pension system was founded by an Englishman. Partners in these islands. Working together, better together.

We are proud that we fought together to defeat fascism, and worked together to build a welfare state. But the case we make is about what's best for Scotland's future.

Prosperity
Times are really tough at home and really turbulent internationally. In the future Scotland's prosperity will be strengthened by keeping the British connection. We need more growth, more jobs, and more prosperity in Scotland. We don't need uncertainty, instability, and barriers for our businesses.

In these tough and turbulent times, the size, strength and stability of the UK economy is a huge advantage for Scotland's businesses. Scotland's largest market is the rest of the UK. The UK is the world's oldest and most successful single market and the UK has the oldest and most successful currency - the pound.

Scottish businesses are increasingly having to win orders against smart, efficient and productive firms in foreign markets. These competitive challenges will only get tougher in the years ahead. The UK is better placed than a separate Scotland or England to help our businesses find and win new orders across the world.

Security
In an uncertain world Scotland's security will be strengthened as part of the United Kingdom. The British Armed Forces that protect us are the best in the world. In Scotland we are proud of the Forces and proud of the vital contribution that Scotland makes to them. As part of the UK we have real clout in the UN Security Council, NATO, the EU, and we have Embassies around the world.

Interdependence
As Scots we believe there's nowhere better, but we understand there's something bigger. By contributing to and benefiting from the multi-national, multi-ethnic and multi-cultural United Kingdom of the years ahead, Scotland's society and culture will be enriched.

Hundreds of thousands of Scots and English have made their homes in each other's nation. Half of us have English neighbours. Hundreds of thousands of Scots were born in England. This interdependence - the coming together of family, friends, ideas, institutions and identities - is a strength not a weakness, and is an ideal worth celebrating. The truth is we're better together.

Our case is that Scotland is stronger now and will be stronger in the future - economically, politically, and socially - as a partner in the United Kingdom.

http://bettertogether.net/

 

[happypig]

Salmons is an egomaniac who sees himself as Ghandi in a kilt, liberating the oppressed Scots from the tyrannical yoke of Westminster's imperialist oppressors. His "policies" for an independent Scotland are, for the big ones at least, just a wish list.
Keeping the pound would mean (even if we agree to let him) Scotland's economy being controlled by London.
EU membership isn't a given, there have been rumblings already, with the Croatian president saying he would not be minded to agree to membership (and AIUI letting a new state join needs a unanimous vote) unless the Scots make a full contribution; Salmond seems to think they will be entitled to the same rebate the UK currently enjoys.

A while back I spoke to a (rather dim) lad in a pub up there and I asked him why he waned independence. His said he wanted Freedom. "Freedom to do what ? What can you not do now that you wold be able to if independent ?" He thought for a minute and just said "FREEDOM". I gave up

I'm probably more left wing than most and I think that the SNP's social and economic policies are to be admired, but this bid to break up the union will be bad for England but absolutely disastrous for the people of Scotland.

 

[cunning fergus]

Is any country genuinely in control of it's own economy when international capital is allowed to run riot ?

I would say a country that has full control of its currency has much better chance to manage the riot than one who does not.

Frankly that is a matter of democracy to, in that the electorate can exercise choice.

What choice do the electorates of countries in the euro zone have?

 

[Seagull on the wing]

Close the door on your way out....


They seem to think that they deserve special treatment, keep the pound although they have graciously offer to accept a share of the national debt for this. Which is good of em since they have been taking a greater share of national spending for decades. I would like to see the English have some say in what happens rather than be passive observers and bankrolling people who resent us for doing so....

If they decide that they want to go it alone, good luck to em...

If they get their independence will they (please) withdraw ALL the Scottish MPs from Parliament...just how many English MPs in the Scottish Parliament ? Just a thought...

 

[Gary Leeds]

We should ship as many of the Polish, Romanians and Bulgarians as we can get together up to the border now and get them extending Hadrians Wall.

Scotland are the national equivalent to a big name, lower league manager. They have a bit of history to fall back on when times get bad, managed one or two victories in meaningless minor competitions, but has got too big for their boots and think they are better than what they actually are and want to move on to bigger things and will trample on those that have helped them look good for years.

And as for the oil and gas, I'm sure the good old US of A will be very interested in a small country with a deposit of gas and oil