Politically, are you left or right wing?

[amexer]

I turned from a Tory voter to a socialist as my personal situation improved. By improved I mean my world broadened and my finances got better. This seems quite a natural and logical progression to me; not the opposite.

Unfortunately I have not yet become secure enough to afford to vote labour

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I did put MAYBE.

I have worked at all levels with a good variation. I know some that have done the same job all their lives, just maybe I have a better overview than some.

Maybe I don't, but I do always gather up the whole jigsaw, before taking an overview.

Work is only a part of one’s life experiences though. A significant part, but just one part none the less. You seem to be completely dismissing all other aspects of what contributes to ones political make up.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Unfortunately I have not yet become secure enough to afford to vote labour

I’m not necessarily saying my finances are brilliant, but they have improved.

 

[pb21]

I did put MAYBE.

I have worked at all levels with a good variation. I know some that have done the same job all their lives, just maybe I have a better overview than some.

Maybe I don't, but I do always gather up the whole jigsaw, before taking an overview.

You have gathered up the whole jigsaw? You really are an enlightened being aren't you

 

[SULLY COULDNT SHOOT]

I have ever only voted once and my vote was the wrong one.

I am left, staunchly left but know that the path of the left is doomed to disaster, as much as is the right. Yeats had it right: perns and gyres but I do not want to be the one who supports the right or any of its forms.... yet neither will I ram my leftist views down another's throat.

I know where I stand, you can stand anywhere you like and when it comes to elections, the majority will have the right of it, even if i don't agree.

I am a minority... and a majority... of one.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

FWIW I think Boris has done an admirable job in unprecedented times.

- ignored the findings of Operation Cygnus
- disbanded the parliamentary pandemic response group
- ignored the warnings from Italy and Spain
- sat on his hands for two weeks too long, until forced into partial lockdown
- chased catastrophic herd immunity theory, then lied about it
- rejected sources of PPE from the EU and universities, then lied about the reasons
- issued conflicting, or deliberately ambiguous advice, to the public, and business
- missed targets for testing, then lied about it
- lost further public faith through refusal to admit wrongdoing in shameless actions of his advisor
- recalled Parliament physically, from working remote system - disenfranchising large parts of the electorate
- all resulting in tens of thousands of unnecessary deaths - amongst the very worst outcome of the entire world, despite the natural advantages of being an island, a well developed economy and health system, and weeks of warning.

“An admirable job”?

I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt, and assume you are taking the piss.

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

- ignored the findings of Operation Cygnus
- disbanded the parliamentary pandemic response group
- ignored the warnings from Italy and Spain
- sat on his hands for two weeks too long, until forced into partial lockdown
- chased catastrophic herd immunity theory, then lied about it
- rejected sources of PPE from the EU and universities, then lied about the reasons
- issued conflicting, or deliberately ambiguous advice, to the public, and business
- missed targets for testing, then lied about it
- lost further public faith through refusal to admit wrongdoing in shameless actions of his advisor
- recalled Parliament physically, from working remote system - disenfranchising large parts of the electorate
- all resulting in tens of thousands of unnecessary deaths - amongst the very worst outcome of the entire world, despite the natural advantages of being an island, a well developed economy and health system, and weeks of warning.

“An admirable job”?

I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt, and assume you are taking the piss.

Bitter doesn't even cover it , oh well a few more years for you to get your head around it
Regards
DF

 

[hans kraay fan club]

Bitter doesn't even cover it , oh well a few more years for you to get your head around it
Regards
DF

Grow up, you stupid little man.

Are you NOT ‘bitter’ about thousands of unnecessary deaths?

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Same here. My political compass has been a journey from fairly hard right to soft left. It's stayed in the same place for about 15 years now. I guess that's it now. I use the term 'progressive socialist'.

I voted Tory up until 1997 and have not done so since. Been a member of the Green Party for 9 years now. I would be placed in the 'moderate' wing. It's not even that I agree with all their policies, I just like the good intentions of most.

I voted Tory at 18 in ‘87. I was still living at home with no real life experiences. I then moved away to study, meet people with different lives, from different places, with different experiences and stories. I also started to see London, started to travel etc. This, as well as a greater understanding of myself, has all informed my political views which changed to red. Numerous posters, the majority it seems, mention work as their catalyst for political change; I genuinely can’t see what part my employment plays in my politics, other than to think I’m okay*, many aren’t, and that’s wrong.

* I’m fit, healthy, can put a roof on my head and food on my table.

 

[nicko31]

- ignored the findings of Operation Cygnus
- disbanded the parliamentary pandemic response group
- ignored the warnings from Italy and Spain
- sat on his hands for two weeks too long, until forced into partial lockdown
- chased catastrophic herd immunity theory, then lied about it
- rejected sources of PPE from the EU and universities, then lied about the reasons
- issued conflicting, or deliberately ambiguous advice, to the public, and business
- missed targets for testing, then lied about it
- lost further public faith through refusal to admit wrongdoing in shameless actions of his advisor
- recalled Parliament physically, from working remote system - disenfranchising large parts of the electorate
- all resulting in tens of thousands of unnecessary deaths - amongst the very worst outcome of the entire world, despite the natural advantages of being an island, a well developed economy and health system, and weeks of warning.

“An admirable job”?

I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt, and assume you are taking the piss.

The going on holiday for half of February is the biggie and missing five cobra meetings, just criminal negligence

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

Grow up, you stupid little man.

Are you NOT ‘bitter’ about thousands of unnecessary deaths?

No one wants to see people die but you're the king of the blame game and win hands down every time
Regards
DF

 

[BBassic]

No one wants to see people die but you're the king of the blame game and win hands down every time
Regards
DF

If not the Government, who do we blame for the Government's response to the pandemic?

 

[hans kraay fan club]

The going on holiday for half of February is the biggie and missing five cobra meetings, just criminal negligence

Admirable

 

[hans kraay fan club]

No one wants to see people die but you're the king of the blame game and win hands down every time
Regards
DF

There are no winners. None.

 

[BBassic]

There are no winners. None.

Well...there are some people who made some "educated guesses" in the stock market who did OK.

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

Bitter doesn't even cover it , oh well a few more years for you to get your head around it
Regards
DF

Bitter about what?

Our prime Minister and his bumbling cabinet have made some very dubious decisions which means that this country's performance in terms pf Pandemic deaths is one of the worst in the world.

BREXIT and election results - which I presume is what you mean - has got nothing to do with it. They are just not capable of running the proverbial pi55 up in a brewery.

 

[cunning fergus]

i could have written more but not sure if anyone reads my comments.My left and right was about movement in thinking rather than just a static left wing or right wing place on a spectrum. The short bit I wrote missed off large chunks of political groups and concepts however we are polarising to the left and the right and whilst the extremes of these are small minorities they are the most vocal. I get what you are saying regards change versus as is' but again that is a little too simple.

What it all comes down to is resources and decisions around who gets what and forming groups to 'fight' for that. But what that statement ignores is how and why you form those groups and what cannot be ignored is the way humans think and react, flight or fight is deep within all of our subconscious thoughts and that is all about identifying similar and what you feel bonded to. Decision making is not always rational or consistent. You mentioned BREXIT, I was/am a remainer not because i love the EU as it is but why view is why change? No one has presented me with an economic argument for leaving . Guesses and comments that are whimsical yes, but most debate came to a 'taking back power' position which I can't relate to whereas a simple you will be £2k better off I can.

I really wouldn’t worry about if people do or not, I think there is a basic equality with all contributions, no doubt some posters who have a long winding contribution baggage train of posts may feel a kind of ownership of threads and a sense of some status amongst the wider contributors but I think most on here see that sadness for what it is.......when the fun stops, stop as they say!

I think in contemporary British society defining political views as left and right has been over used, over simplified and under explained. It is a crude tool to deal with what is inherently personal and complex. My point on it in this thread is to reflect on how the references came about.

I don’t think it necessarily follows that the references are completely insoluble to events, and more importantly The sands of time, however I think it’s a more flexible point of reference than Labour = left and Tory = right. If, for example the more updated references are socialism = left and capitalism = right that still misses nuance and ideological context.

For example, on basis of above how many deeply left minded Corbyn voters, either own their own houses, have mortgages or aspire to own property? How many have more than 1 property and are landlords?

Doesn’t work does it, this new constituency of socialist capitalists that essentially are not what they believe, which makes what they believe in terms of left and right nothing more than a figment of their imagination. For the more muscular neo socialist capitalist, they would use the reference to being left in the same way as someone will say they are a vegan or pansexual. It’s part of their own sense of identity, but means nothing.

Which brings me back to why I think the origins of left and right remain helpful, are you a moderate or a radical. If you understand what needs to change do you do that on a radical basis, (risk polarising the moderates) or a moderate basis (risk polarising the radicals).

BLM like Brexit are radical, both polarising...........if we want radical politics going forward we better get used to the upheaval that comes with it.

 

[Hampster Gull]

You mentionedI we BREXIT, I was/am a remainer not because i love the EU as it is but why view is why change? No one has presented me with an economic argument for leaving.

That’s because there isn’t one. We will be economically poorer which on average may not matter BUT our most vulnerable will be the ones hit the hardest, that’s the unacceptable bit. Anyway it’s all done now. Let’s see how our Brexit govt does, let’s hope it’s not at the same competency level of its Covid response. Left, right, too simplistic in a modern social media world

 

[beorhthelm]

Which brings me back to why I think the origins of left and right remain helpful, are you a moderate or a radical. If you understand what needs to change do you do that on a radical basis, (risk polarising the moderates) or a moderate basis (risk polarising the radicals).

BLM like Brexit are radical, both polarising...........if we want radical politics going forward we better get used to the upheaval that comes with it.

understand your thinking, trouble with the conclusion is the terms have diverged from the historical context. left/right is about broad socio-economic views, nothing about being moderate or radical, we have those two really good words to use for that.

 

[Goldstone1976]

Well...there are some people who made some "educated guesses" in the stock market who did OK.

There certainly are. Some of the guesses were pretty bloody obvious tbh - didn’t need much in the way of ‘educated’.