Politically, are you left or right wing?

[zefarelly]

I don’t really like the very basic sliding scale of left vs right wing.

Everyone has differing opinions on policy issues etc, and that’s where we should start.

Should we privatise the NHS, or allocate more of our resources to make it better?
Do we need to move aggressively away from fossil fuels and act against climate change, or is it a hoax?
Do we live in a democracy, or another form of society? Does our voting system need to change?
Do we need to invest more in our infrastructure?
Is making sure large corporations pay their fair share in taxes important?
Do we need to invest more in our military?

A million questions, but I think we’d be surprised at the answers from people who believe they’re in the left wing or right wing tribes.

No, yes
Yes, no
Not really, yes
Yes
Yes very
No

 

[Baker lite]

There was a centrist party available to vote for in the last election. Change UK, a party made up of former Labour and Conservative MPs.
They all lost their seats.

All endorsed I believe by the floppy haired Hugh Grant, the man that offering the nation his pearls of wisdom.... wasn’t going to ever end well, why would we take advice from a man who was nicked on Hollywood Boulevard for receiving skull from a toothless brass, while Liz Hurley was sat at home in her frillys?...

 

[Bognor Seagull]

Almost 2:1 left v right

Thankfully NSC has ZERO reflection of the REAL world

 

[jamie (not that one)]

A few years ago I would've been considered left, but now without even changing any of my political ideologies, I'm probably more centre left.

 

[Steve Foster]

A few years ago I would've been considered left, but now without even changing any of my political ideologies, I'm probably more centre left.

Most hard working people who accumulate a little bit of wealth in pensions, savings or their home would portray a dislike in paying more tax/state intervention to those who have grafted/studied less in life - which is why most people become more sanguine about politics as they get older & move along the scale left-right; hence why the young tend to vote left & the retired right. Unfortunately for the Labour Party who are masters in losing elections - even swathes of the young saw through their empty promises last time around!

 

[The Camel]

I've voted Labour, Green and Lib Dems in my time. I'd never vote Tory, ukip etc.

I guess most of my friends would say I'm left wing, couldn't bring myself to vote for Corbyn though.

 

[pb21]

Most hard working people who accumulate a little bit of wealth in pensions, savings or their home would portray a dislike in paying more tax/state intervention to those who have grafted/studied less in life - which is why most people become more sanguine about politics as they get older & move along the scale left-right; hence why the young tend to vote left & the retired right. Unfortunately for the Labour Party who are masters in losing elections - even swathes of the young saw through their empty promises last time around!

If only it was the case that those who worked harder and/or studied more, earned more/payed more tax, or at the very least, the more they payed accurately reflected the objective economic cost of that additional graft and/or study.

In other words I don't believe a free market is 'fair'. Well a true free market would be, in a way, but IMO that is as idealistic as a socialist utopia.

 

[amexer]

No, it's not.

Capitalism is all about making profit through any legal means available to it. It does not take into account how hard someone works. It will pay an individual vast wealth for doing very little, if it is profitable for them to do so. At the same time, it pays many of the most crucial, difficult and dangerous jobs the least. There is no equality or fairness in capitalism, as far as individuals are concerned.

I'm not wholly against capitalism, but this criticism of it is one of the more obvious.

Just cant see what is wrong with profit. The more successful a business becomes the more people they employ and the more profit they make the more corporation tax they pay. Whether we like it or not the more successful business is the more money that can be put into public services. Where else is it coming from.

 

[Swansman]

Just cant see what is wrong with profit. The more successful a business becomes the more people they employ and the more profit they make the more corporation tax they pay. Whether we like it or not the more successful business is the more money that can be put into public services. Where else is it coming from.

A lot of businesses cost more than they give. Take fast food chains or tobacco companies as an example, they make massive profit of making A LOT of people unhealthy (very costly) and pay their taxes in like Cayman Islands or whatever, effectively moving money out of the country while at the same time being a huge burden on primarly tax financed services like the NHS.

 

[Lower West Stander]

I think I’m pretty much in the middle.

Ideologically, left wing politics sounds great. The problem is that it doesn’t work in practice. We are not all born equal and there has to be some reward for those who are harder working and more successful.

On the flip side, the more right wing you are, the less regard you tend to have for those less well off than yourself. And there has to be some support for the less well off in society.

Extremes are right wing nut jobs like Trump and left wing nut jobs like Kim Jong Un. Middle of the road politics is the compromise which satisfies most of the people most of the time.

At least in this country our politics tends to be variations on a theme. Corbyn for example was way too left wing - which is why he got tonked in the last election.


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[WATFORD zero]

If you think it Politics is that simple, I would respectfully suggest you don't understand it.

After all, If Governments change around you, does that mean where you sit politically has changed. It's all relative isn't it

 

[zefarelly]

Agreed, but there's something not quite right about giving to people who just can't be arsed despite there being nothing wrong with them . . . I know of a few people who work the sytem, claim incapacity benefit for a bad back or somesuch . .. . But still seem to manage to do as much or more as anyone else I Know.

I don't anyone of any political persuasion believes that anyone should be "rewarded" for doing nothing.

But this is an argument for Universal Basic Income, a promising theoretical system where every person is guaranteed a small liveable income.

If everyone got a flat rate income, then there would be no resentment towards those that get something for nothing - as everyone gets the same amount too. Work is then truly rewarded and incentivised.

...or we could give them nothing. No benefits, nothing. Imagine the increase in crime we would see, or otherwise good citizens doing bad things if they lose their jobs, purely out of desperation.

Work-shy people will always exist. It's just a lack of ambition and the ability to find something that resembles contentment in a low quality of life. I wouldn't want to live that way, so just let them get on with it.

 

[zefarelly]

Just cant see what is wrong with profit. The more successful a business becomes the more people they employ and the more profit they make the more corporation tax they pay. Whether we like it or not the more successful business is the more money that can be put into public services. Where else is it coming from.

Are you tripping or something ?

 

[The Merry Prankster]

Just cant see what is wrong with profit. The more successful a business becomes the more people they employ and the more profit they make the more corporation tax they pay. Whether we like it or not the more successful business is the more money that can be put into public services. Where else is it coming from.

I really don't think you've been paying attention to the last 20 odd years where neoliberal capitalism has been stripping money out of the system at a frightening rate putting it in the hands of a very small number of people who then pay minimal, if any, tax on it. On top of that, as someone else has pointed out, many of them are massively subsidised further by the state (using actual taxpayers money) clearing up the health, environmental or social costs that their businesses create.

 

[beorhthelm]

I really don't think you've been paying attention to the last 20 odd years where neoliberal capitalism has been stripping money out of the system at a frightening rate putting it in the hands of a very small number of people who then pay minimal, if any, tax on it. On top of that, as someone else has pointed out, many of them are massively subsidised further by the state (using actual taxpayers money) clearing up the health, environmental or social costs that their businesses create.

you say this and yet the tax revenues increase, more than ever is spent by government. money doesnt sit in a warehouse with bankers swiming in it like Scrooge McDuck, its invested to build the new buildings, infrastructure, new businesses employing people. productive parts of the economy pay for the unproductive but necessary parts of the economy.

 

[Jim Van Winkle]

My Gawd! I got through 10 pages of a politics thread on NSC without it turning into a binfest.

Standards are slipping lads.

For the record, I would class myself as slightly left of centre.

 

[zefarelly]

I really don't think you've been paying attention to the last 20 odd years where neoliberal capitalism has been stripping money out of the system at a frightening rate putting it in the hands of a very small number of people who then pay minimal, if any, tax on it. On top of that, as someone else has pointed out, many of them are massively subsidised further by the state (using actual taxpayers money) clearing up the health, environmental or social costs that their businesses create.

A brilliant example of this is the cement works at Beeding . . . .blue circle sucked the downs dry over 50 odd years then shut down and swanned off scott free. . . . . Leaving behind not only a massive hole in the now south down national park, but an environmental shit hole full of asbestos. Who let that happen how and why ? There are terraces of houses which all got sold off as well . . . .

 

[amexer]

I really don't think you've been paying attention to the last 20 odd years where neoliberal capitalism has been stripping money out of the system at a frightening rate putting it in the hands of a very small number of people who then pay minimal, if any, tax on it. On top of that, as someone else has pointed out, many of them are massively subsidised further by the state (using actual taxpayers money) clearing up the health, environmental or social costs that their businesses create.

Lived in Sussex last 20 years. I have no time for tax avoiders. However have great admiration for anybody who has built up a company.and is now employing loads of people Fair enough if you think this is neoliberal capitalism or stripping money from system. To me even if they have become wealthy what they have created is making a great contribution to public finances. Where would you get tax income from if profit is so bad

 

[Baker lite]

Almost 2:1 left v right

Thankfully NSC has ZERO reflection of the REAL world

Be thankful for that, you should peruse the Brexit thread, full of shouty clever boys, if that was a reflection of the UK opinion We would never have left.

 

[BBassic]

I think I’m pretty much in the middle.

Ideologically, left wing politics sounds great. The problem is that it doesn’t work in practice. We are not all born equal and there has to be some reward for those who are harder working and more successful.

On the flip side, the more right wing you are, the less regard you tend to have for those less well off than yourself. And there has to be some support for the less well off in society.

Extremes are right wing nut jobs like Trump and left wing nut jobs like Kim Jong Un. Middle of the road politics is the compromise which satisfies most of the people most of the time.

At least in this country our politics tends to be variations on a theme. Corbyn for example was way too left wing - which is why he got tonked in the last election.


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Agree with this bit to a point.

If you've worked hard and become successful then of course you want to be economically rewarded for that. However there are people who are born into massive privilege and afforded opportunities that others simply do not have access to like entrance into the "best" universities, a different level of social strata giving them access to well placed contacts which in turns opens the doors for cushy jobs straight out of uni etc etc.

The other side of that are people who work their fingers to the bone and just about manage to put food on the table to feed their kids, kids who themselves will have to put a bloody shift in to do one better than their parents.

That's where my left of centre leanings show - we are absolutely not all born equal so we should be doing as much as we possibly can to redress that inequality and bring some balance.