Political Situation in Northern Ireland.

[Kuipers Supporters Club]

Yesterday, Me, and my mate were having a good conversation and debate over this topic.
He comes from a Catholic Republican Family, and I have Unionist views, we were discussing Irish Independence, as he believes 'The North' should be reunified with the rest of the Ireland of Ireland.
I, share the view that Ulster should remain strongly attached to the United Kingdom.

So, what is your opinion on this highly disputed, and controversial topic NSC'ers??.
Poll to Follow...

 

[beorhthelm]

since im coming round to the idea of dropping the Scots, seems silly to keep hold of NI too.

problem is, democratically NI has always supported union since there are simply more Protestants than Catholics and most vote accordingly.

 

[Alex Alex Dawson oo! oo!]

Hardly a controversial issue is it? The people of NI should decide whether they want to remain part of the UK or not, nobody else's business imo. A united "Ireland" is a secondary question and is for the people of the Republic and NI to decide.

 

[strings]

I think we should sell Northern Ireland to the Republic of Ireland to cover the defecit. If Ireland's dodgey finances can't afford it, we should sell it to the highest bidder.

In all seriousness, I think any of the extreme two situations you suggest above are dangerous for the long term stability of Northern Ireland. I think we will see NI in a similar state to as it is now for the foreseeable future. Devolution in Northern Ireland has got all of the main political parties working together with varying degrees of success. As my Uni lecturer on Northern Ireland said, if you can get the two sides starting to agree on small things such as bin collections, it will very slowly start to break down barriers.

I think that over time we will see consocialist (forcing people together) approaches to rebuilding Northern Ireland slowly implemented - getting republican and nationalist kids to go to school together is an example of this - forcing them to make friends will bode well for the future. Trying to break down barriers between the older members of the community will take longer. How many of us hate Palace because our Dads told us to? People will still see themselves ideologically biased towards one side of the NI arguement for many, many years. The key, for me, is ensuring that the slow transition to a pernament peace is not interupted by the small minority that think violence is still the answer.

Northern Ireland will remain as it is - part of Britain, with devolved responsibility and close Irish cooperation - for a long, long time.

 

[bhaexpress]

Hardly a controversial issue is it? The people of NI should decide whether they want to remain part of the UK or not, nobody else's business imo. A united "Ireland" is a secondary question and is for the people of the Republic and NI to decide.

The problem is that Northern Ireland has a Protestant majority which has a lot to do with the problems in the first place, hence a referendum would end up with Northern Ireland staying part of the United Kingdom. I doubt that many hard line Republicans would accept such a vote under any circumstances.

 

[ATFC Seagull]

Hardly a controversial issue is it? The people of NI should decide whether they want to remain part of the UK or not, nobody else's business imo. A united "Ireland" is a secondary question and is for the people of the Republic and NI to decide.

Goes way beyond that. As mentioned above, it becomes an issue of to what extent sovereignty should be affected by immigration, and how many years must pass before an ethnic group is considered indiginous, and how to deal with problems of one ethnic group exerting control over another.

Anyways, most Republicans don't accept the legitimacy of the majority wish to stay in the UK, much as a few years down the line the Unionist MINORITY will not respect (although I am not sure what argument they will give) a referendum that decides upon unification.

Look at some of the secessions and referendums in the former Yugoslavia to see these things are far from simple.

 

[strings]

On the question of a referendum it will simply not work.

The republicans will not accept the result of a referendum unless it is a referendum of the whole of Northern and Southern Ireland together, which they would obviously win.

The Unionists would not accept a referendum on these terms.

It is too much of a political hot potato, which is why all sides know to avoid the issue.

 

[The Spanish]

you can see a point where succession or joint sovereignty is done by county, with only down and antrim remaining fully in the UK or having some sort of bonkers IOM status.

 

[Alex Alex Dawson oo! oo!]

The problem is that Northern Ireland has a Protestant majority which has a lot to do with the problems in the first place, hence a referendum would end up with Northern Ireland staying part of the United Kingdom. I doubt that many hard line Republicans would accept such a vote under any circumstances.

Ah, the gerrymandering associated with partition. True, there is currently still a small protestant majority but this has been reducing for decades and with increasing resentment towards devolved governments from England (eg "drop(?)" the scots - post#2), I can forsee NI voting on leaving the Union in my lifetime. It's all about the timing.

 

[FREDBINNEY]

NEVER,NEVER,NEVER !!

 

[coventrygull]

What about an Independent Ulster

 

[Lord Bracknell]

What about a community where the old-fashioned concept of a nation state has faded away?

 

[xenophon]

An Alternative Ulster

 

[User removed 4]

What about a community where the old-fashioned concept of a nation state has faded away?

Did they base the father in the viz cartoon ' the modern parents ' on you ?

 

[Lord Bracknell]

Did they base the father in the viz cartoon ' the modern parents ' on you ?

Not at all.

It's just that the old arguments seem totally irrelevant, once you've found yourself in Asda in Enniskillen, watching masses of customers spending their Euros.

 

[The Spanish]

Not at all.

It's just that the old arguments seem totally irrelevant, once you've found yourself in Asda in Enniskillen, watching masses of customers spending their Euros.

in all fairness LB i have seen countless brits spend sterling in calais supermarkets but i bet most of them would froth at the mouth if you got them on to europe.

 

[Simster]

What about a community where the old-fashioned concept of a nation state has faded away?

bushy is right, this is complete clap-trap, all about avoiding making a decision. Either you accept NI's right to self determination, or you believe it should be absorbed into the Republic.

Personally, I feel things have moved on too far to expect anything other than for NI to remain as a six county statelet for the time being, with concessions made to account for cross community politics, which is more or less what we have now.

I think the boat for a peaceful resolution was well and truly missed in the 1920s, when Ulster (in its entirety) could have been part of an Irish state, but that particular province given special concessions (a bit like Quebec in Canada) to recognise it's ties with Britain, possibly with the Queen remaining as some sort of figurehead but not an absolute monarch (similar to her status on the Isle of Man). I can't help thinking that back in the days of the British empire ruling the world, this sort of concensual thinking was overlooked at a dreadful cost for decades to come.

 

[Lord Bracknell]

bushy is right, this is complete clap-trap, all about avoiding making a decision.

The "decisions" that have been taken since the Good Friday agreement are staggering. They've been investment decisions taken by multinational companies, like Walmart, Tesco, Marks and Spencer - none of whom had any significant presence in Northern Ireland before or during the Troubles.

The people of the north are coming to terms with what's happening - more consumerism, more jobs, more prosperity and a real wish not to turn back. The only downside that I can detect is that some folk object to being pulled in by the police ... for speeding. That never used to happen.

If today's agenda is about "Avoiding Making A Decision" ... so what?

Erneside Shopping Centre Enniskillen

 

[Simster]

The "decisions" that have been taken since the Good Friday agreement are staggering. They've been investment decisions taken by multinational companies, like Walmart, Tesco, Marks and Spencer - none of whom had any significant presence in Northern Ireland before or during the Troubles.

The people of the north are coming to terms with what's happening - more consumerism, more jobs, more prosperity and a real wish not to turn back. The only downside that I can detect is that some folk object to being pulled in by the police ... for speeding. That never used to happen.

Yes, yes I know all that. Indeed, I agree with you - I'm a big fan of concensus politics.

If today's agenda is about "Avoiding Making A Decision" ... so what?

Well the question was "should NI be unified with the rest of the Ireland of Ireland or should it remain attached to the United Kingdom?"

Your answer was "what about the concept of a nation state fading away" which is complete bollocks, because quite clearly, there are issues that need to be made in either Dublin or London, such as taxation or defence.

And Jesus Christ. Posting a link to a shopping centre - what's that all about? So they take Euros? Big deal.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

I think one option might be to have each county within NI hold it's own referendum on the issue.

If say Derry's majority vote says the people of that county wish to return to being part of the Irish republic then grant it.

If the vote in Antrim says they wish to remain as part of the UK then leave it as such.

As it stands today Antrim and Down are the only protestant majority counties in NI.

Do it that way and at least the majority vote is more representative of an area.