Police seek man who "repeatedly punched" cyclist on Brighton seafront

[Albion my Albion]

Was waiting for that.

I'm a motorist, cyclist and pedestrian, usually all in the same day and tend to err on the side of caution in each mode.

I think of it this way, which one of the three is most likely to survive a collision? Is it better to be correct or unhurt?

 

[trueblue]

It's not difficult is it. When you're in a car, you drive at a sensible speed making allowances for the fact that any cyclists or pedestrians you encounter could do something unexpected and you could seriously hurt them. When you're on a bike, you ride at a sensible speed making allowances for the fact that any pedestrians you encounter could do something unexpected and you could seriously hurt them.

 

[cooliobhafc]

I unfortunately struck a girl who was jogging with her b/f yesterday, down by Big Beach Cafe, just ran straight out over the path, neither of us could do anything about it, it just happened, but it is ridiculous on these paths. Kids, dogs stretching leads, people crossing. Broke her leg and is still in hospital.

I am now 100% road only its just too dangerous along there now.

 

[marshy68]

It's not difficult is it. When you're in a car, you drive at a sensible speed making allowances for the fact that any cyclists or pedestrians you encounter could do something unexpected and you could seriously hurt them. When you're on a bike, you ride at a sensible speed making allowances for the fact that any pedestrians you encounter could do something unexpected and you could seriously hurt them.

No its not, but there are plenty of nuts drivers, cyclists and unaware pedestrians.

 

[Lord Bracknell]

You actually highlight a pretty important point here. Cycle lane positioning varies so much in this country. How is anyone supposed to know where they are/when to look out for cyclists. In Brighton we have shared use pavements, the above mentioned promenade, by St Peter's church and the Level. We have cycle lanes marked on the road, Dyke Road (if you can see them for all the cars parked in them), some of Old Shoreham Road. Some even go behind bus stops ready for unsuspecting people getting off the bus. The Drive and First Avenue/Grand Avenue have cycle lanes behind parked cars (as you mentioned). Cycle Lanes come on and off the pavement all over the place. Some times there are advanced stop boxes at traffic lights, sometimes not, which adds in another argument about undertaking on the way to junctions. How is anyone really supposed to make sense of all that, and as you say be 'programmed' to deal with when and where they may be people riding a bike?

Equally ... we have roads of all shapes and sizes in the UK, ranging from narrow country lanes to the M25. Motorists have to adapt to what is put in front of them - and, for the most part, they succeed in doing so. There is no such thing as the "one size fits all" road and there is no such thing as the perfectly designed cycle facility that will be appropriate in all circumstances. If there was, it would be used as an excuse for providing nothing for cyclists in most locations.

You mention the cycle lanes that go behind bus stops and characterise them as "ready for unsuspecting people getting off the bus". This is what has been provided for one of the most heavily used (by cyclists) roads in the city, Lewes Road. As a regular driver, bus user and pedestrian in that street (sadly, no longer possessing the mobility to ride my bike), I can report that it now works well. The trick was to get people used to how it is supposed to work - and that points towards the solution:- education. Most of the buses now have audible warnings to advise passengers to watch out for cyclists when they leave the bus. The previous version of cycle lanes in Lewes Road was dreadful, with many more opportunities for crashes involving cyclists and motor vehicles than we have now.

Progress is slow, but is definitely happening.

 

[Stat Brother]

Some images of Southsea:-








Beach, pedestrians, 2 lane cycle path, parked cars, 2 lanes of traffic.

I'm sure there's 10m reasons (£) why this wouldn't be possible in Brighton.
I'm equally sure this isn't a 'perfect' scheme either, but it does prove room can be made for everybody.

The seafront also connects to the cycle path at Havant, some 10+ miles away, taking you round to Portsmouth harbour,


It doesn't just appear out of nowhere or stop for no apparent reason.


Why have a planned and committed infrastructure when you can just paint some tarmac.

 

[Lord Bracknell]

A two-lane, two-way cycle path? I can hear the complaints already.

I'm not saying that it won't work, but there is a real need to educate pedestrians that bikes, unlike cars, won't be following the same "keep left" rule of the road that motorists do.

It's a similar issue that applies in those "one way for cars" streets in Brighton that have a contraflow cycle lane. Have ALL pedestrians realised this?

 

[cooliobhafc]

They have done this on the old shoreham road but its only a few miles and the rest of that road, through Portslade is a nightmare but it can be done.

The seafront is awful, the Paramedic and ambulance driver both said they have had numerous call outs for incidents involving bikes.

The council has to sort this out, it really is very dangerous.

 

[Stat Brother]

A two-lane, two-way cycle path? I can hear the complaints already.

I'm not saying that it won't work, but there is a real need to educate pedestrians that bikes, unlike cars, won't be following the same "keep left" rule of the road that motorists do.

It's a similar issue that applies in those "one way for cars" streets in Brighton that have a contraflow cycle lane. Have ALL pedestrians realised this?

Oh absolutely, as said it ain't perfect, nothing ever is, but it's still an improved on randomly painted tarmac.

The A259 from Fishbourne to Havant has an incredibly poorly laid stretch of rotten green tarmac along the side of the road, for cyclists.
Some is still visible the rest has long since left the road while all that remains is crater sized potholes.

What could be a 20 mile stretch of flat, inviting safe cycling from Chichester to Portsmouth, is instead the ultimate advert for good and bad development.

Although I'm sure it's heralded as a massive success in County Council literature.

 

[jackanada]

Somewhere I read that the government guidance for cycle paths that are not physically separated from the pavement was not to use them if you were likely to consistently go above 12mph.
I wonder how many drivers would be considerate when stuck behind a cyclist doing 12mph on the road?
Also when they were still stuck behind them at a red light, and no one was crossing, would the cyclist speeding both their journeys by crossing carefully while the light was still red make them more or less furious?

 

[The Oldman]

It's weird because I've hardly ever seen actual cyclists using shared use paths. They're rarely suitable. Far more likely to be a drunk teenager on a mountain bike or similar.

They do along Seaford prom. Seems to work ok.

 

[perseus]

What is big red and dangerous? A bus! That's for cyclists. They are a menace!

They pull out without signalling, they signal without pulling out, and they have passengers who can all sorts of strange things when getting off a bus.

Not very practical in Brighton, but best choose a route where buses don't go. Bus drivers don't even notice when they run over bicycles. Not until the passengers start banging on the window.

 

[studio150]

You mention the cycle lanes that go behind bus stops and characterise them as "ready for unsuspecting people getting off the bus". This is what has been provided for one of the most heavily used (by cyclists) roads in the city, Lewes Road. As a regular driver, bus user and pedestrian in that street (sadly, no longer possessing the mobility to ride my bike), I can report that it now works well. The trick was to get people used to how it is supposed to work - and that points towards the solution:- education. Most of the buses now have audible warnings to advise passengers to watch out for cyclists when they leave the bus. The previous version of cycle lanes in Lewes Road was dreadful, with many more opportunities for crashes involving cyclists and motor vehicles than we have now.

Progress is slow, but is definitely happening.

Alternatively you could still look at the cycle lane as poorly designed given that audio warnings have to be given to bus passengers.

if you compare the design to the London Underground, there are audio warnings to mind the gap on the Central Line at Bank station given the gap between the platform and the tube given that the platform is curved. If you then compare this to the Jubilee Line there are no such warnings as the platforms are straight at the same height as the tube carriage floor and there is a barrier between the edge of the platform and the line.

Therefore the problems with the mind the gap and stand behind the yellow line have been designed out, making the use of the tube on the Jubilee Line far safer.

If the cycle lanes around Brighton and Hove had been better designed the audio warnings and other issues would not arise.

 

[halbpro]

Alternatively you could still look at the cycle lane as poorly designed given that audio warnings have to be given to bus passengers.

if you compare the design to the London Underground, there are audio warnings to mind the gap on the Central Line at Bank station given the gap between the platform and the tube given that the platform is curved. If you then compare this to the Jubilee Line there are no such warnings as the platforms are straight at the same height as the tube carriage floor and there is a barrier between the edge of the platform and the line.

Therefore the problems with the mind the gap and stand behind the yellow line have been designed out, making the use of the tube on the Jubilee Line far safer.

If the cycle lanes around Brighton and Hove had been better designed the audio warnings and other issues would not arise.

I'm not sure how you could better design them. If you run them through the bus lane that causes problems at bus stops. Running them behind the bus stop is probably the best option for everyone concerned.

 

[Notters]

They do along Seaford prom. Seems to work ok.

See I cycle along there regularly. The road is wide and smooth so I always use it.

 

[Lord Bracknell]

Alternatively you could still look at the cycle lane as poorly designed given that audio warnings have to be given to bus passengers.

if you compare the design to the London Underground, there are audio warnings to mind the gap on the Central Line at Bank station given the gap between the platform and the tube given that the platform is curved. If you then compare this to the Jubilee Line there are no such warnings as the platforms are straight at the same height as the tube carriage floor and there is a barrier between the edge of the platform and the line.

Therefore the problems with the mind the gap and stand behind the yellow line have been designed out, making the use of the tube on the Jubilee Line far safer.

If the cycle lanes around Brighton and Hove had been better designed the audio warnings and other issues would not arise.

I'm not sure how you could better design them. If you run them through the bus lane that causes problems at bus stops. Running them behind the bus stop is probably the best option for everyone concerned.

If I recall rightly, the concept was borrowed from award-winning schemes developed in Scandinavia.

It was possible to do the same thing in Brighton, because the Department for Transport was prepared to fund the substantial extra costs of installing what for the UK was a revolutionary design.

As I said earlier, my regular observations of Lewes Road, as a driver, bus user and pedestrian, convinces me that the design is safer than what went before.

 

[halbpro]

If I recall rightly, the concept was borrowed from award-winning schemes developed in Scandinavia.

It was possible to do the same thing in Brighton, because the Department for Transport was prepared to fund the substantial extra costs of installing what for the UK was a revolutionary design.

As I said earlier, my regular observations of Lewes Road, as a driver, bus user and pedestrian, convinces me that the design is safer than what went before.

Completely agree. They're excellent and really have made it much safer. I'm a regular bus rider along Lewes Road and it always looked awful for cyclists before, seems much better now.

Only improvement would be make it work at every bus stop, but that'd require significantly narrowing the pavement at those spots.

 

[Stat Brother]

Not really worthy of it's own thread, so soon after the last can of worms was opened, but I did enjoy this:-

Video: "If you are cycling on the road then I'll drive on the path"

http://road.cc/content/news/203537-video-if-you-are-cycling-road-then-ill-drive-path

Well worth clicking on the video.

 

[FishPie]

Not really worthy of it's own thread, so soon after the last can of worms was opened, but I did enjoy this:-

Video: "If you are cycling on the road then I'll drive on the path"

http://road.cc/content/news/203537-video-if-you-are-cycling-road-then-ill-drive-path

Well worth clicking on the video.

That driver will more than likely end up killing someone one day with his attitude.

 

[Mayonaise]

That driver will more than likely end up killing someone one day with his attitude.

Now thats what I call 'nailing your colours to the mast!'

I'll bet half the people on here will be saying 'good on yer mate' whilst the other half are shaking their heads in disgust.

Nothing like car driver vs cyclist for a clear line in the sand