[Albion] Police in Croydon yesterday

[Weststander]

I don’t know, I don’t know what was said by the older man that resulted in the ensuing melee. As for the others wading in, you don’t wait until a colleague has been seriously injured before you eliminate the risk...

Undoubtedly a difficult job, spat at and assaulted by low-life's every week.

The criminal case against the Brighton fan needs to be dropped now.

 

[rippleman]

I don’t know, I don’t know what was said by the older man that resulted in the ensuing melee. As for the others wading in, you don’t wait until a colleague has been seriously injured before you eliminate the risk...

"What was said......"

Exactly why the police reaction was wrong. Whatever was said surely did not necessitate such a violent response. Sticks and stones etc

 

[Hastings gull]

There is absolutely no need for police to police like that. I don't think anyone could argue with you.

However, as supporters, we already know this to be the case, has been for years. I have some sympathy for what [MENTION=33649]darkwolf666[/MENTION] is saying, as I'm not sure what to conclude from the footage. We don't know what's gone on before, what has been said. Let's be honest, most of us in that situation just take being shoved along, we don't like it, but any kind of verbals, pushing back, we know they just have very little tolerance for football fans, the moment you kick back, there is only one winner.

What I'd say about the beer bottle, is yes nothing illegal, but I think I'd have been a bit more discreet with it than just giving the police a reason to pick me out. They're on a heightened moment of finishing the job of escorting the Brighton fans away, fan with a bottle meandering around they're going to clock aren't they.

It all looked avoidable to me. Doesn't make it right, doesn't make the police innocent or not culpable, but it escalated when it could have been defused.

Good balanced post if I may say so! Yes, the police response did seem a bit OTT, and probably a different outcome could have been arrived at with a little more restraint all round. But the one thing that you can bet on when complaints are made about Police behaviour, is that you never hear really hear of what went on beforehand.

 

[rippleman]

Good balanced post if I may say so! Yes, the police response did seem a bit OTT, and probably a different outcome could have been arrived at with a little more restraint all round. But the one thing that you can bet on when complaints are made about Police behaviour, is that you never hear really hear of what went on beforehand.

And you can bet your life that by now they will have got their heads together and come up with an "explanation" of what happened that will caste the fan in the worst possible light in case a complaint is made........coz that's what they do. Poor fellas not got a snowflakes chance in hell.

 

[Billy the Fish]

I don’t know, I don’t know what was said by the older man that resulted in the ensuing melee. As for the others wading in, you don’t wait until a colleague has been seriously injured before you eliminate the risk...

The risk from a grey haired man with a limp and his teenage looking son - I bet the 10 tooled up coppers wearing body armor were shitting themselves at his harsh language!

 

[Hastings gull]

And you can bet your life that by now they will have got their heads together and come up with an "explanation" of what happened that will caste the fan in the worst possible light in case a complaint is made........coz that's what they do. Poor fellas not got a snowflakes chance in hell.

You are obviously an expert on the subject, so what chance has poor old me got.

 

[Eric Youngs Contact Lense]

Just a comment on the discreet drinking of beer : the reality was that the bars stayed open as we were all held back so beers are bought, and then the "column" sets off. I think its fair to say that 50% of the column all set off with beer in hand..there was no option to stay and finish your beer, then move - there was an option I guess to leave your beer behind, but nobody was so it was deemed perfectly alright, (no requests from stewards or police to do otherwise) to stroll up the street with everyone else, swigging your beer (plastic bottles) and singing songs in the sunshine. The context probably changed the closer the column got to the station - the job of the police at the back was to keep up so that the column and the police resources didn't get over-stretched. I am guessing the incident here took place pretty close to the station where the 2 sets of fans had something of a face off and the situation was at its most tense.
That said, the heavy-handed approach does to me look unnecessary given the general feel of the walk to the station. I do understand that the Officers only have a short time to decide if they see a situation developing that they want to nip in the bud before it escalates, and that we as the public sometimes need to adjust our behaviour to the context we are in - (side point - I always get annoyed at twerps who refuse to buckle seat belts on planes on a point of intellect/stubborness, flying in the face of those who have our best interests at heart.) but the consequent physicality of the reaction in this case looks unnecessary and one would hope that trained officers could have handled the situation with less confrontation if they really wanted to.

 

[Albion_Dave]

The walk back to the station was one of the most jovial and almost carnival like that I can remember due to the great result. Every where you looked people were drinking a beer, sold from the kiosks at Selhurst, myself included.
It was only when we got to the junction just up from the now closed Cherry Tree pub that you could see that there was going to be a flash point.
That’s when bottles from both sets of fans started to be thrown. I think if the crowd control had been better here then the problems that followed would of almost certainly been avoided.

 

[LlcoolJ]

I totally agree with you about the need for real world policing to be robust, assertive, to give control, to put trouble makers on the back foot. The vast majority I would hope would agree with that, understand that, unless they have an anti Police agenda from having a criminal past.

But don't you think one or two officers in this case, totally misjudged the non-event, and were unnecessarily aggressive against a non-criminal? Others then pile in, it gets out of control, in siding with their own.

A bit more grey matter, and less red mist, would have kept a non-event under control. Spoilt by a one or two officers who treated this as a riot situation.

Or perhaps they have an anti-police viewpoint due to seeing this sort of thing happening (or having had it happen to them) before? Where it's the police who are actually the aggressors against innocent fans.

I fully agree that having a strong police presence in football situations where it could kick off is sensible and completely necessary btw (and the rest of your post). But they need to behave as police officers whose job is to protect the public, not thugs out to batter anyone who slightly steps out of line. Seems as if football fans are some of the last easy targets of the thicko, bullied at school type of "officer" who fancies chucking their weight about.

 

[Hastings gull]

Or perhaps they have an anti-police viewpoint due to seeing this sort of thing happening (or having had it happen to them) before? Where it's the police who are actually the aggressors against innocent fans.

I fully agree that having a strong police presence in football situations where it could kick off is sensible and completely necessary btw (and the rest of your post). But they need to behave as police officers whose job is to protect the public, not thugs out to batter anyone who slightly steps out of line. Seems as if football fans are some of the last easy targets of the thicko, bullied at school type of "officer" who fancies chucking their weight about.

Contributed by someone genuinely impartial, who only wants the truth to come out and with no agenda at all. Really heart-warming to know such people exist.

 

[Weststander]

Or perhaps they have an anti-police viewpoint due to seeing this sort of thing happening (or having had it happen to them) before? Where it's the police who are actually the aggressors against innocent fans.

I fully agree that having a strong police presence in football situations where it could kick off is sensible and completely necessary btw (and the rest of your post). But they need to behave as police officers whose job is to protect the public, not thugs out to batter anyone who slightly steps out of line. Seems as if football fans are some of the last easy targets of the thicko, bullied at school type of "officer" who fancies chucking their weight about.

I’ve got lucky, the Police have always been fantastic when I needed them.

But I accept there are some bullies and liars in the police (SYP spring to mind for obvious reasons ... and I do remember that you’ve got your own experience of them), and I’d already said the one or two officers bringing this fan down was a case of unjust red mist. Thank god for camera phones, hopefully the case against the fan will be thrown out.

 

[Hastings gull]

I’ve got lucky, the Police have always been fantastic when I needed them.

But I accept there are some bullies and liars in the police (SYP spring to mind for obvious reasons ... and I do remember that you’ve got your own experience of them), and I’d already said the one or two officers bringing this fan down was a case of unjust red mist. Thank god for camera phones, hopefully the case against the fan will be thrown out.

I know what you mean when you say that - but in the grand scheme of things, it is not luck. You have been helped as have hundreds of thousands of other folk by the professionalism of Police Officers who genuinely care for the public whom they serve. Of course there are some bad eggs in the force ( and the response in the video did seem OTT) as there are in every organisation, but please don't forget that in charged situations, it can bring out the worst in everyone, and it is all too easy to lodge complaints, when what went on beforehand is rarely filmed.

 

[LlcoolJ]

Contributed by someone genuinely impartial, who only wants the truth to come out and with no agenda at all. Really heart-warming to know such people exist.

You should probably show your own, totally biased, cards before attempting another dig. You are a police sympathiser due to your family being in the force. It's no surprise whatsover to see you attempting to defend their actions. Yet again.

Yes, I have no love for the police after they ruined three years of my life with lies, vindictiveness and incompetence. I already mentioned on here that it's all over now and look, I'm not in prison. I was right. You stated that "I must have done something wrong to be in that situation". You were wrong. Of course, when I mentioned this to you, I never received an apology, you just scuttled away from the thread......

In this case, I wasn't even talking about me. There are plenty of first hand accounts of such incidents on this thread! I guess you choose to ignore them as they don't fit your agenda that the police can do no wrong (oh or maybe they did but they must have been provoked and 'we'll never know what happened first'). Such delusion would be quaint if you didn't try to convince other people with it.

 

[LlcoolJ]

I know what you mean when you say that - but in the grand scheme of things, it is not luck. You have been helped as have hundreds of thousands of other folk by the professionalism of Police Officers who genuinely care for the public whom they serve. Of course there are some bad eggs in the force ( and the response in the video did seem OTT) as there are in every organisation, but please don't forget that in charged situations, it can bring out the worst in everyone, and it is all too easy to lodge complaints, when what went on beforehand is rarely filmed.

"All too easy to lodge complaints"? FFS. This bloke has been assaulted by the police, arrested, charged with a spurious offence, spent the night in hospital and lost his season ticket.

But it's "too easy" to make a complaint against the police? AMAZING.

 

[PILTDOWN MAN]

Has a charge of supporter or complaint against the police been confirmed? As for the season ticket has this been confiscated and under what law?

 

[Seasidesage]

No one other than the protagonists know what happened before the video. However, it is clear that there was no visible problem until the WPC noticed that he was behind her and chose to make that an issue. That is clear with or without sound. The chap was making his way in the direction required and whatever was said, if anything was said it clearly did not merit the complete overreaction that followed. I have been to Palace games since the 70's and have seen similar many times. That said I have also seen considerable trouble there too, caused by both sets of fans. None of which warrants the complete over reaction. It will be interesting to see how this is spun in court and what the final outcome will be.

I would hope that the club at the very least hold fire until the court outcome which is clearly open to interpretation.

 

[drew]

Has a charge of supporter or complaint against the police been confirmed? As for the season ticket has this been confiscated and under what law?

There doesn't need to be a law for the confiscation or withdrawal of the season as that is down to Brighton.

 

[Weststander]

Have the Albion withdrawn the fan’s season ticket?

 

[origigull]

"What was said......"

Exactly why the police reaction was wrong. Whatever was said surely did not necessitate such a violent response. Sticks and stones etc

Could he have said 'hey you are assaulting me with your pushing me in the back, this is the 3rd or 4th time you have done this, there is no need for I am complying with your instructions.' or very similar words. Totally police OTT. The police still treat all football fans as thugs and low life and treat them accordingly.

 

[PILTDOWN MAN]

There doesn't need to be a law for the confiscation or withdrawal of the season as that is down to Brighton.

Previous posts have stated it was taken by the police. They can’t do that. That’s why I asked