[Albion] Police in Croydon yesterday

[Return of the Rev]

The reason I do not go, you should be able to watch a game of football without IDs and police marching you to sometimes where you don’t want to go. I have a mate in the Met (BHA fan), he loves Palace games as he says ‘double time and I get to smack a Palace fan, I love my Job’ think that sums that game up and the attitude of some of the Mets finest.


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Are they still recruiting?

 

[portlock seagull]

Isn't part of the problem the legacy of the behaviour of a minority of fans back in the 70s and 80s? Doesn't make it right but when you have a bunch of morons like the HF, without any Police presence then there could well have been trouble and personally, as I had my 14 year old daughter with me, I don't want that and am prepared to put up with a little bit of kettling.

That’s nigh on 50 years ago - should we treat Germans similarly? You actually hit the nail on the head, authorities are stuck in a time warp and have yet to catch up with the vast majority of fans sadly.

 

[Napper]

Has he been banned for 5 years yet ?

 

[drew]

That’s nigh on 50 years ago - should we treat Germans similarly? You actually hit the nail on the head, authorities are stuck in a time warp and have yet to catch up with the vast majority of fans sadly.

Really!!!

I suppose I was only imagining an incident recently between Millwall and Everton.

Having said that, you hit the nail on the head when you refer to the vast majority of fans. Back in the 70s and 80s, the vast majority were not hell bent on a fight. Same today, but it only takes the ignorant minority to ruin it for everyone else.

 

[Hastings gull]

Really!!!

I suppose I was only imagining an incident recently between Millwall and Everton.

Having said that, you hit the nail on the head when you refer to the vast majority of fans. Back in the 70s and 80s, the vast majority were not hell bent on a fight. Same today, but it only takes the ignorant minority to ruin it for everyone else.

Bang on. It is a sad fact of life that a couple of hundred idiots will spoil it for 30,000 fans, hence what seems to be OTT policing/rules etc. If we don't provide adequate policing, then those idiots will be emboldened and cause more mayhem, assuming they can get away with it. The problem, as ever, is that the innocent vast majority feel that they are being unfairly and unnecessarily targeted, hence the furore over bottle tops .

 

[darkwolf666]

The Police will bullshit their way through this like they always do. It’s why the Hillsborough families are still awaiting justice. Courts will be scared shitless and pressurised to convict here and the CPS is the only hope for this guy. I doubt Barber will want to go against the police although the evidence is there for everyone to see.

Hate to raise my head above the parapet to get shot at, but there is no clear evidence there. The video from a less blue tinted point of view appears to show 2 men who don’t want to be harried along by the police, which is a clear and well used police tactic. The older of the two then appears to turn, shouting abuse in the officers face, at which point no-one knows what was said or done and the strong arm tactics start.

The police’s job is difficult enough, and yes it does seem heavy handed, but as said it has been done like this successfully for a long time, these are tried and tested tactics and not just for football matches.

I am not sure the Seargeant Wilson school of policing, “would you gentlemen, kindly move along, if it’s not too much trouble” tactic would work.

The evidence shows men, of a certain age (who should know better), swearing at the police, with the particularly nice gentleman with his “don’t push me, you c u next Tuesday” comment... and the idiot that strolls into camera carrying a bottle of beer...

Like I said, not sure this “evidence” video will be seen in the same light without our bias!

I am fairly sure, that unless the police admit they made a mistake then the club (not Paul Barber), will act accordingly.

 

[Questions]

Hate to raise my head above the parapet to get shot at, but there is no clear evidence there. The video from a less blue tinted point of view appears to show 2 men who don’t want to be harried along by the police, which is a clear and well used police tactic. The older of the two then appears to turn, shouting abuse in the officers face, at which point no-one knows what was said or done and the strong arm tactics start.

The police’s job is difficult enough, and yes it does seem heavy handed, but as said it has been done like this successfully for a long time, these are tried and tested tactics and not just for football matches.

I am not sure the Seargeant Wilson school of policing, “would you gentlemen, kindly move along, if it’s not too much trouble” tactic would work.

The evidence shows men, of a certain age (who should know better), swearing at the police, with the particularly nice gentleman with his “don’t push me, you c u next Tuesday” comment... and the idiot that strolls into camera carrying a bottle of beer...

Like I said, not sure this “evidence” video will be seen in the same light without our bias!

I am fairly sure, that unless the police admit they made a mistake then the club (not Paul Barber), will act accordingly.

So people become idiots for walking around with a bottle of beer on a football day out. ......... OK.
Having family members pushed around by the police is provocative. It riles people. I’ve been there.

 

[darkwolf666]

So people become idiots for walking around with a bottle of beer on a football day out. ......... OK.
Having family members pushed around by the police is provocative. It riles people. I’ve been there.

Er, yep!

My reply was before you edited your response. Yes it does rile, people to he pushed around, but is it worth getting arrested for, screaming abuse in a policemans face?

 

[GT49er]

If this does go to court I suggest you do a crowd funding page or similar and I would happily contribute. I really hope this gets overturned and the fella gets his season ticket back. Good luck!

Me too.

And if this guy is a STH - and has been without any previous hint of trouble - petition to PB too. This is one of those rare occasions when the club should be supporting the fans, not the police, or its zero tolerance policy (this isn't a case for zero tolerance as there is nothing to tolerate)

 

[Commander]

Hate to raise my head above the parapet to get shot at, but there is no clear evidence there. The video from a less blue tinted point of view appears to show 2 men who don’t want to be harried along by the police, which is a clear and well used police tactic. The older of the two then appears to turn, shouting abuse in the officers face, at which point no-one knows what was said or done and the strong arm tactics start.

The police’s job is difficult enough, and yes it does seem heavy handed, but as said it has been done like this successfully for a long time, these are tried and tested tactics and not just for football matches.

I am not sure the Seargeant Wilson school of policing, “would you gentlemen, kindly move along, if it’s not too much trouble” tactic would work.

The evidence shows men, of a certain age (who should know better), swearing at the police, with the particularly nice gentleman with his “don’t push me, you c u next Tuesday” comment... and the idiot that strolls into camera carrying a bottle of beer...

Like I said, not sure this “evidence” video will be seen in the same light without our bias!

I am fairly sure, that unless the police admit they made a mistake then the club (not Paul Barber), will act accordingly.

That is nonsense. There is no need for the police to police it like that. If you treat people like animals then don't be surprised when they behave like animals. As for someone being an idiot for having a bottle of beer at a football match...

 

[Questions]

Er, yep!

You sound like my kind of guy.

 

[Commander]

Er, yep!

Why?

 

[darkwolf666]

Why?

Do I really need to explain why in that situation the video showed, if so then he clearly isn't the only idiot...

 

[Commander]

Do I really need to explain why in that situation the video showed, if so then he clearly isn't the only idiot...

Clearly you do, or I wouldn't have asked. What is it about carrying a bottle of beer (clearly not illegal as otherwise the police would have confiscated it) that makes you question his intellect?

I have also dared to drink beer before and after football matches before, does that make me an idiot?

 

[Bold Seagull]

That is nonsense. There is no need for the police to police it like that. If you treat people like animals then don't be surprised when they behave like animals. As for someone being an idiot for having a bottle of beer at a football match...

There is absolutely no need for police to police like that. I don't think anyone could argue with you.

However, as supporters, we already know this to be the case, has been for years. I have some sympathy for what [MENTION=33649]darkwolf666[/MENTION] is saying, as I'm not sure what to conclude from the footage. We don't know what's gone on before, what has been said. Let's be honest, most of us in that situation just take being shoved along, we don't like it, but any kind of verbals, pushing back, we know they just have very little tolerance for football fans, the moment you kick back, there is only one winner.

What I'd say about the beer bottle, is yes nothing illegal, but I think I'd have been a bit more discreet with it than just giving the police a reason to pick me out. They're on a heightened moment of finishing the job of escorting the Brighton fans away, fan with a bottle meandering around they're going to clock aren't they.

It all looked avoidable to me. Doesn't make it right, doesn't make the police innocent or not culpable, but it escalated when it could have been defused.

 

[Gazwag]

Sadly the Met are a law unto themselves. As others have said a solid back up story would have been concocted to cover all eventualities. Sadly Balkham will back this up as all stick together and PB will just ban for the sake of it.

To be fair, there was an incident at the Lincoln away cup match where a Brighton fan was detained by the police after an incident during the game where he was trying to protect his elderly father. A little bit similar to this incident, without the OTT policing though. DB got this sorted out, the fan released and gave him a lift down to the service station half way home where he re-joined the coach.

 

[rippleman]

The police’s job is difficult enough, and yes it does seem heavy handed, but as said it has been done like this successfully for a long time, these are tried and tested tactics and not just for football matches.

Yup. Ian Tomlinson RIP

As I said earlier, the Met still police football matches like it was still late 70s/80s where there was regular violent disorder at matches. Today that is far from the case. They don't need to be violent thugs to police a football crowd.

 

[drew]

Yup. Ian Tomlinson RIP

As I said earlier, the Met still police football matches like it was still late 70s/80s where there was regular violent disorder at matches. Today that is far from the case. They don't need to be violent thugs to police a football crowd.

And the problem is there are still fans that would love it to be the 70s and 80s.

 

[Weststander]

Hate to raise my head above the parapet to get shot at, but there is no clear evidence there. The video from a less blue tinted point of view appears to show 2 men who don’t want to be harried along by the police, which is a clear and well used police tactic. The older of the two then appears to turn, shouting abuse in the officers face, at which point no-one knows what was said or done and the strong arm tactics start.

The police’s job is difficult enough, and yes it does seem heavy handed, but as said it has been done like this successfully for a long time, these are tried and tested tactics and not just for football matches.

I am not sure the Seargeant Wilson school of policing, “would you gentlemen, kindly move along, if it’s not too much trouble” tactic would work.

The evidence shows men, of a certain age (who should know better), swearing at the police, with the particularly nice gentleman with his “don’t push me, you c u next Tuesday” comment... and the idiot that strolls into camera carrying a bottle of beer...

Like I said, not sure this “evidence” video will be seen in the same light without our bias!

I am fairly sure, that unless the police admit they made a mistake then the club (not Paul Barber), will act accordingly.

I totally agree with you about the need for real world policing to be robust, assertive, to give control, to put trouble makers on the back foot. The vast majority I would hope would agree with that, understand that, unless they have an anti Police agenda from having a criminal past.

But don't you think one or two officers in this case, totally misjudged the non-event, and were unnecessarily aggressive against a non-criminal? Others then pile in, it gets out of control, in siding with their own.

A bit more grey matter, and less red mist, would have kept a non-event under control. Spoilt by a one or two officers who treated this as a riot situation.

 

[darkwolf666]

I totally agree with you about the need for real world policing to be robust, assertive, to give control, to put trouble makers on the back foot. The vast majority I would hope would agree with that, understand that, unless they have an anti Police agenda from having a criminal past.

But don't you think one or two officers in this case, totally misjudged the non-event, and were unnecessarily aggressive against a non-criminal? Others then pile in, it gets out of control, in siding with their own.

A bit more grey matter, and less red mist, would have kept a non-event under control. Spoilt by a one or two officers who treated this as a riot situation.

I don’t know, I don’t know what was said by the older man that resulted in the ensuing melee. As for the others wading in, you don’t wait until a colleague has been seriously injured before you eliminate the risk...