[Football] Police call for cocaine users to be banned from football after Euros mayhem

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Shorthand for Professor David Nutt?

I think 'call me Dave' Nutt lacks nuance.

 

[pocketseagull]

How would that reduce crime committed by addicts to pay for drugs ? Or are you advocating ‘free’ drugs paid for by the taxpayer ?

If you're concerned with crime then heroin absolutely should again be prescribed by the NHS. It's what we used to do before getting sucked into America's War on Drugs.

 

[Happy Exile]

Millions of people are addicted to something me included just to get through the day. What does that tell us about living in this country is it really that shit we all need a little something to survive it? Or is it the world in general

I recommend the book Stealing Fire. It's a serious look at how humans have always found ways to "get out of their heads" since time began, why that's the case - it's literally human nature, and how everyone from Silicon Valley to Navy SEALS use different methods of altering mental states to achieve their goals. They put the global economy for getting out of our heads (legally and illegally) as worth $4 trillion a year.

 

[Billy the Fish]

Some people say alcohol is a drug.

It's not a drug, it's a drink!

 

[Whitechapel]

Same could be said for a lot of things. I'll let everyone's lurid imagination fill in the gaps. *cough* Glitter *cough*

No, the argument has to be based on risk benefit analysis.

The tide towards legalisation of cannabis is unlikely to turn (it will be legalized). Even the Isle of man has given up birching homosexuals.

But what will be next, if anything?

There is no such thing as the pejoritive entity 'drugs', though. Chemicals we ingest are drugs. I am a pharmacologist so I know of what I speak.

'War on drugs'

I think the 'drug culture' is exaggerated, though. Yes 95% of certain demographics are into it, balls deep, and in their echo chamber it will feel like everone is at it. But in other echo chambers there is equal certainty about resurrection, homosexuality and abortion being abominations, and drugs unavailable (even if they wanted some); take your pick.

I can tell you that in the pharmacology community there is total disinterest in legalising this or that. We see even pure drugs as risky. Why make clean heroin available? Have you never read Naked Lunch?

I would take more seriously the arguments of the pro legalization lobby if they weren't so nakedly 'me me me'. As a lapsed toofer, what's in it for me?

(and I'm looking at you, Swanny )

I might have completely misunderstood the point of your post but the positives for me are pretty numerous.

1) Legalising it means potency/purity can be controlled safely. This works both ways with high potency skunk being regulated as well as lower quality cocaine being cut with safer substances.

2) If drugs were legalised then people struggling with addiction issues would potentially feel more comfortable coming forward for help with their addictions. As hard as coming out and admitting you’re an alcoholic must be, it’s a tonne easier than admitting an addiction to an illegal substance due to the added stigma

3) The legal sale of substances would raise valuable taxes which can go in to both mental health and physical health services to deal with substance abuse issues

4) It would kick the legs of organised crime out from underneath it. The popularity of county line operations(entry level gang members sent from big cities to small towns to set up dealing hotspots) show how profitable it is. Removing 90% of their business would cripple both street gangs and their suppliers.

5) It would stop the police wasting time and money on a battle they are never going to win. I won’t use the ‘war on drugs’ phrase , but the police v drug dealers is like the frailest kid in Year 7 fighting the sixth form
Rugby team. He might be get the odd jab in, but he’s never going to come out on too. It would also stop overcrowding our prisons and court system over what many would see as petty crimes


Of course there is drawbacks too, and if this country was ever to legalise drugs then the first few months might turn the U.K. in to a massive version of Ayia Napa for a couple of months, but overall it would do a world of good in the long term. At the end of the day though, America are more advanced in their discussion or decriminalising drugs than we are… AMERICA!!! A country where they still care if the President is religious and abortion is a massive issue every election. To be less progressive on any issue than them is bloody mental

 

[faoileán]

Everything depends on moderation - alcohol / other drugs / gambling etc - none particularly good for you but if used sparingly can be ok. A lot of examples that come out are often extreme addicts. There’s a whole spectrum on absolutely everything in my opinion - I like to let people make their own decisions and not judge tbh.

Well we're different then because I do judge people who ignore all the misery and death involved in the cocaine industry just for a buzz on a Saturday night.

 

[Easy 10]

Neither are great, but coked up mugs are on a different level to your general pissheads. They are an absolute nightmare to be around.

Weapons-grade dickheads.

 

[Whitechapel]

How would that reduce crime committed by addicts to pay for drugs ? Or are you advocating ‘free’ drugs paid for by the taxpayer ?

Three fold;

1) Legalising it makes getting help with addiction easier and reduces the stigma around it. I know people who want help with how much beak they get through but are terrified to talk to their doctor or their parents about it because they’re worried about their reaction to them taking an illegal substance.

2) Better education growing up. Being taught about drink and drugs at school is hilariously naive. Telling a bunch of 14/15 year olds who are already getting pissed that drink and drugs are bad for you sets people up in the wrong mindset. When I’ve already been down the park or the beach with my big bottle of strongbow and had a great time, trying to put me off drink & drugs by saying “they’re bad and evil and horrible and you should never touch them” is the entire wrong way to go about it. I already know getting pissed is fun, now I’m just going to assume all of it is fun too. My mum giving me the pros and cons of booze was much more effective than anything I was told in schools.

Sit kids down and teach them properly about the pros and cons of drink and drugs.

“Yeah, if you have a joint you’ll sit around eating pizza and pissing yourself at everything but the long term effects are X, Y & Z” “Coke will make you feel on top of the world, you’ll talk to everyone and be more levelled out if you’ve been drinking but it’s expensive, you run the risk of losing the middle of your nose and in the morning you’ll wake up and realised you text 20 girls you barely know saying you miss them and you need to go for a drink soon”

All the time drugs are illegal we’ll never see actual sensible education on them.

3) A drug dealer is much more likely to accept stolen goods instead of payment than a shop. Somebody really struggling with a heroine or crack addiction might see stealing an iPhone in exchange for a fix as a deal worth taking, whilst a dealer might take the risk because the potential profit is worth it. You’re not going to be able to walk in to Tesco and give them a locked phone in exchange for a hit. All of a sudden they’ve got to steal it, try and find somewhere to pawn it etc.

Obviously it doesn’t stop the risk of robbery to feed an addiction entirely, but it does make it much less likely that you will personally get robbed in order to feed a fix.

 

[Sheebo]

Well we're different then because I do judge people who ignore all the misery and death involved in the cocaine industry just for a buzz on a Saturday night.

Yes, having noticed several of your posts, we’re definitely different. I assume anyone who plays the lottery or has a bet on the football are also judged by you And I’m not even sticking up for myself here, just reality

I would say, there won’t be many people you won’t judge based on your posts and you seem like you need to let your hair down a little and live and let live. I won’t say the ‘I bet you’re fun at parties’ line - but I’m close

 

[Sheebo]

Neither are great, but coked up mugs are on a different level to your general pissheads. They are an absolute nightmare to be around.

Weapons-grade dickheads.

Agreed but also having been a little naive on my youth and not realising dozens of mates would dabble sometimes, there wasn’t any difference to being pissed from afar I noticed - some used it to be calmer or level headed - it affects different people in different ways for sure - eg some will be on it and not be coked up dickheads and you wouldn’t be able to even tell they were on it sometimes - trust me!

 

[clapham_gull]

I do wonder if the more snobby simple black and white comments come from those who have lived the most sheltered life with their heads in the sand. I guess it comes with the territory of an internet message board but why does everyone have to have an outlandish massive opinion on everything. Honestly, live and let live sometimes - got mates with all sorts of different lifestyles and vices and don’t feel the need to give an opinion to them on everything they do as long as they’re half sensible and happy

I agree with you and clearly haven't lived a sheltered life. We all need space to do something different and **** up every now and then.

I draw the line with cocaine though. It's a nasty little drug and I known many who have taken it with a sense of guilt. At the end of day if you buy it or deal it you are partly responsible for all sorts of nonsense that goes on abroad that ruins lives and communities.

I flip all the time on the issue of the legalisation of drugs. As a society we are completely hypocritical allowing alcohol to ruin more lives than cannabis, cocaine and heroin combined.

However the reality is that if you legalised drugs, you'd never remove the criminality. Alcohol and fags are legal but the black market (to undercut legal supplies) are worth billions.

I've no answer and sadly those in power don't have one either.

What I do know cocaine is generally taken in this country recreationally to allow you to drink more. It's an enabler for the alcohol problem in this country rather than being about the effects of cocaine itself.

It allows you to drink ten pints rather than five and turns you into a c@@@. Anyone who takes it in such a manner knows that as do their mates.

 

[Sheebo]

I agree with you and clearly haven't lived a sheltered life. We all need space to do something different and **** up every now and then.

I draw the line with cocaine though. It's a nasty little drug and I known many who have taken it with a sense of guilt. At the end of day if you buy it or deal it you are partly responsible for all sorts of nonsense that goes on abroad that ruins lives and communities.

I flip all the time on the issue of the legalisation of drugs. As a society we are completely hypocritical allowing alcohol to ruin more lives than cannabis, cocaine and heroin combined.

However the reality is that if you legalised drugs, you'd never remove the criminality. Alcohol and fags are legal but the black market (to undercut legal supplies) are worth billions.

I've no answer and sadly those in power don't have one either.

What I do know cocaine is generally taken in this country recreationally to allow you to drink more. It's an enabler for the alcohol problem in this country rather than being about the effects of cocaine itself.

It allows you to drink ten pints rather than five and turns you into a c@@@. Anyone who takes it in such a manner knows that as do their mates.

Yes agreed. Although whatever drug or whatever vice, there’s often deeper reasons as to why people have problems with it for sure. Eg those with issues who smoke a joint daily from habit rather than those who occasionally have a smoke. It’s sad as I’ve known people who have developed addictions from shit life changing events and a sense of ‘**** it I need something’. So can’t generalise everyone who has issues or those that don’t but do dabble in things into one bracket - like the poster earlier using the term ‘druggies’ - way too broad and also unempathetic imo.

 

[Easy 10]

Agreed but also having been a little naive on my youth and not realising dozens of mates would dabble sometimes, there wasn’t any difference to being pissed from afar I noticed - some used it to be calmer or level headed - it affects different people in different ways for sure - eg some will be on it and not be coked up dickheads and you wouldn’t be able to even tell they were on it sometimes - trust me!

I speak from experience, and believe me, being around the herberts who have been on the Columbian marching powder will see my very rapid exit. They are manic, hyped and absolutely insufferable. Out of control animals, I just cannot tolerate it.

 

[Sheebo]

I speak from experience, and believe me, being around the herberts who have been on the Columbian marching powder will see my very rapid exit. They are manic, hyped and absolutely insufferable. Out of control animals, I just cannot tolerate it.

Deffo depends on their personality to start with though as to how dickish they can be…! I’ve had mates for years who would have beers with and had no idea they were on gear most of the times. Certainly weren’t like you describe but that’s life - everyone’s different. One lad I knew was an absolute nightmare if he DIDN’T have some and just drank - if he did he was a lot more sensible - I think al drugs including alcohol, make people behave differently. I smoked a fair bit of weed as a kid and it just made me addicted to nicotine and completely go quiet and spaced out decided it really wasn’t one for me as was so anti social - alcohol was much better for having a laugh..!

 

[clapham_gull]

Yes agreed. Although whatever drug or whatever vice, there’s often deeper reasons as to why people have problems with it for sure. Eg those with issues who smoke a joint daily from habit rather than those who occasionally have a smoke. It’s sad as I’ve known people who have developed addictions from shit life changing events and a sense of ‘**** it I need something’. So can’t generalise everyone who has issues or those that don’t but do dabble in things into one bracket - like the poster earlier using the term ‘druggies’ - way too broad and also unempathetic imo.

Yep, it's far too easy to label those who take drugs as addicts. The majority clearly aren't although heroin users probably are. It should be clear that the vast majority of cocaine plus alcohol users are neither addicts of either.

I know many people who drink far less alcohol than me (over a month) but use theirs to get completely smashed (still they shit themselves) over a weekend.

Medically the affects of alcohol are probably worse on those who are older drink in moderation, but continually. However, the smashed weekenders are clearly having an effect on others.

This issue is completely missing from the debate.

 

[Sheebo]

Yep, it's far too easy to label those who take drugs as addicts. The majority clearly aren't although heroin users probably are. It should be clear that the vast majority of cocaine plus alcohol users are neither addicts of either.

I know many people who drink far less alcohol than me (over a month) but use theirs to get completely smashed (still they shit themselves) over a weekend.

Medically the affects of alcohol are probably worse on those who are older drink in moderation, but continually. However, the smashed weekenders are clearly having an effect on others.

This issue is completely missing from the debate.

Yeh I’m a binge drinker prob one night a week on average and 3 weekends out of 4. Don’t drink at all other than then really. Prob is worse than a few glasses of wine most nights but that’s def not my thing!

 

[herecomesaregular]

Yes, having noticed several of your posts, we’re definitely different. I assume anyone who plays the lottery or has a bet on the football are also judged by you And I’m not even sticking up for myself here, just reality

I would say, there won’t be many people you won’t judge based on your posts and you seem like you need to let your hair down a little and live and let live. I won’t say the ‘I bet you’re fun at parties’ line - but I’m close

It obviously doesn't bother you one bit how that coke got to you? **** them eh, I want to let my hair down.

But then again there are few certainties in life other than:

- people will take chemical mind orientating substances (booze, drugs, whatever)
- people will gamble
- people will pay for sex

We still haven't worked out effective education for children re the first two and a safe environment for all three, as adults, re supply, demand and addiction.

edit - and you seem just as judgemental on the other side, seems odd to call faoileán judgemental

 

[Sheebo]

It obviously doesn't bother you one bit how that coke got to you? **** them eh, I want to let my hair down.

But then again there are few certainties in life other than:

- people will take chemical mind orientating substances (booze, drugs, whatever)
- people will gamble
- people will pay for sex

We still haven't worked out effective education for children re the first two and a safe environment for all three, as adults, re supply, demand and addiction.

edit - and you seem just as judgemental on the other side, seems odd to call faoileán judgemental

Not me no! I’m not talking me. Others, not a clue how it got there etc. And whilst there’s demand and there’s money to be made there will always be horrible parts to it and people getting ****ed over or whatever it is you say happens - unfortunate fact of life now. There will always be a market for highs - that’s just not gonna stop. You could dig down into just about any industry and there’s dark areas - I’d love to have morals on everything but it would stop an awful lot things we take for granted - eg isn’t there issues on coffee and slave trade? No chance I won’t buy it based on that as it won’t make any difference whatsoever to the problem.

I haven’t been judgemental at all - a bit of humour and comments based on a number of their posts..!

 

[e77]

I make no morale judgement on how people get their kicks and there is certainly a debate to be had about decriminalising possession of drugs. However you can't have people openly taking drugs and causing problems with people who aren't taking them, as happened last Saturday.

If people don't show discretion then they will prod the bear and the Police will get involved, which unfortunately will include the likes of me who enjoy a McDonalds breakfast on the Euston Road to perk themselves up on an away trip.

 

[herecomesaregular]

Not me no! Others, not a clue how it got there etc. And whilst there’s demand and there’s money to be made there will always be horrible parts to it and people getting ****ed over or whatever it is you say happens - unfortunate fact of life now. There will always be a market for highs - that’s just not gonna stop. I haven’t been judgemental at all - a bit of humour and comments based on a number of their posts..!

Nah, you played the I'm Cool card and him/her as The Square.