[Albion] Playing Devil’s advocate here but

[WATFORD zero]

It's clear something has changed.

Duffy only played the ball, the others mixed and matched between man to man and zonal.
Duffy papered over so many cracks, as he would do in any defence, in the in world football.


Been thinking about a comment earlier re Ryan and someone (rightly obvs) pointing towards Peter Schmichel as the perfect keeper.

I think Schmichel and Duffy together would have wasted one of theirs talents.

We had Duffy so we didn't need Schmichel.
The Albion needed a reflex keeper ready for the second or third rebound.

Now we don't have Duffy and crucially nobody filling in for him (BDB) and we don't have a Schmichel either.

Until such time as a different style of keeper arrives, it seems like GPott needs to be better at managing how he uses what he has got.

Basically Dunk needs to channel his inner Duffy until such time as he's clattered by his keeper as he takes out all before him.

Agree with a lot of this, but Duffy played less than a third of games last season, and I don't recall us struggling so much against set pieces last year ? Again Murray and Stephens were important defensively, but Murray hardly played last season and Stephens played less second half of the season. BDB was an ever present and may be a more significant miss defensively this season from last.

We have bought in White, March, Lamptey in defence, none of which are particularly big or physical and even though Montoya wasn't big, he had been around a long time and knew how to 'block' bigger attackers on set pieces.

For me, I think the biggest change is that White, Lamptey, Bissouma and Alzate simply don't have the experience at this level and may be a little naive at set pieces. Murray, Duffy, Stephens and BDB weren't. (And being units helped ).

Maybe it's something we will have to suffer to a degree while they get the experience and coaching.

 

[SIMMO SAYS]

It is too early to say for certain.

If White develops into an England international, and you sell him for seventy million in the future then it will have been a good decision.

If I were making the decision though, which obviously I'm not, I would have thought I don't have the information to know for sure, so it is a balance of probabilities. He might develop and appreciate in value or he could get a career ending injury next week. The £30 million though, that is cold hard cash. That is something certain. And that is money I could spend on a top notch striker which I need far more than a central defender of which I have too many.

He is a ball playing centre back, he is fantastic supporting the attack, which is why he was so prized by Bielsa, but he has severe limitations defensively, as you now know. Leeds could be taking the consequences of that, and have pissed thirty million down the drain. Which you have used to buy (say) Ollie Watkins, who would be transformational for you in a way White frankly will not be.

As for not helping a relegation rival, I am sorry to break it to you but Leeds will not be relegated. That is just not going to happen. You may want it desperately, but the wish is father to the thought. So that part of the decision was predicated on a false premise.

No one cares what you think

 

[Stat Brother]

Maybe it's something we will have to suffer to a degree while they get the experience and coaching.

Thankfully we can all see it for what it is and will stay on an even keel as the team adjusts.

 

[Silverhatch]

Stopping giving away stupid free kicks in silly areas would help with most of it !

Exactly, that's game management. Don't give away soft free kicks out wide 30 yards from goal when Rodriguez and Fernandes are laying in wait

 

[sydney]

30 million to go towards an area where we are lacking and keeping a player that may not suit potters agenda , but potters agenda has not worked against everton 100 % and it was shitty defensive errors/ lack of getting the head on the ball , i always thought it was Duffy yelling "away" at every corner but it seems like it was monsieur Dunk ......everton was maybe not a good day to judge our defence but feel free to get ****ed anyway .....****.

 

[WATFORD zero]

Thankfully we can all see it for what it is and will stay on an even keel as the team adjusts.

 

[sydney]

Agree with a lot of this, but Duffy played less than a third of games last season, and I don't recall us struggling so much against set pieces last year ? Again Murray and Stephens were important defensively, but Murray hardly played last season and Stephens played less second half of the season. BDB was an ever present and may be a more significant miss defensively this season from last.

We have bought in White, March, Lamptey in defence, none of which are particularly big or physical and even though Montoya wasn't big, he had been around a long time and knew how to 'block' bigger attackers on set pieces.

For me, I think the biggest change is that White, Lamptey, Bissouma and Alzate simply don't have the experience at this level and may be a little naive at set pieces. Murray, Duffy, Stephens and BDB weren't. (And being units helped ).

Maybe it's something we will have to suffer to a degree while they get the experience and coaching.

so you just fp'd me and then you're agreeing with me .....****sake mate ....nobhead

 

[WATFORD zero]

30 million to go towards an area where we are lacking and keeping a player that may not suit potters agenda , but potters agenda has not worked against everton 100 % and it was shitty defensive errors/ lack of getting the head on the ball , i always thought it was Duffy yelling "away" at every corner but it seems like it was monsieur Dunk ......everton was maybe not a good day to judge our defence but feel free to get ****ed anyway .....****.

I'll correct you this one last time, but then I can't be arsed and will just leave you your inane ramblings of random words and lines of full stops

It's Ryan who shouts 'away'

 

[sydney]

It is too early to say for certain.

If White develops into an England international, and you sell him for seventy million in the future then it will have been a good decision.

If I were making the decision though, which obviously I'm not, I would have thought I don't have the information to know for sure, so it is a balance of probabilities. He might develop and appreciate in value or he could get a career ending injury next week. The £30 million though, that is cold hard cash. That is something certain. And that is money I could spend on a top notch striker which I need far more than a central defender of which I have too many.

He is a ball playing centre back, he is fantastic supporting the attack, which is why he was so prized by Bielsa, but he has severe limitations defensively, as you now know. Leeds could be taking the consequences of that, and have pissed thirty million down the drain. Which you have used to buy (say) Ollie Watkins, who would be transformational for you in a way White frankly will not be.

As for not helping a relegation rival, I am sorry to break it to you but Leeds will not be relegated. That is just not going to happen. You may want it desperately, but the wish is father to the thought. So that part of the decision was predicated on a false premise.

in the championship maybe moosh....he's got a bit to learn

 

[AmexRuislip]

Hasn't anyone forgotten that White has only had a minimal of PL experience, only Championship.
It's going to take time for him to adapt, mistakes will be made, even Dunk made mistakes when he started playing permanently for the first team.
GP has been given time, so let's us do the same.

 

[Stato]

We made a £20m+ bid for Nunez after refusing to sell White and if we had needed money to buy a striker we couldn't have done this. We could have insisted that Duffy be sold rather than loaned, but did the deal that the player wanted and avoided strengthening a direct opponent at the cost of not getting an immediate return on the deal. This would also suggest that we don't need to bolster the transfer kitty. We are being strongly linked with a £6m purchase of a midfielder as a future investment. Once again suggesting that if a deal is to be done, transfer funds are available. Nothing suggests that if a striker our management and recruitment team wanted was available, that we could not bid for him.

My suspicion is that the key economy here is on weekly wages. The club are losing revenue every week that fans cannot be admitted and, as Paul Barber indicated in his interview before the MU game, are trying to find ways to manage to see all of the employees, not just the players, through this awful situation. My guess is that Tony Bloom is of the mind that the club being in the position of having to release the least well paid in the organisation at the same time as finding massive wages for a new arrival is not the best move for a business that takes community responsibility seriously. I'd agree. As fans, we can't, on the one side complain about the moral bankruptcy of football paying enormous salaries to players whilst furloughing or laying off those people who rely on a wage from their job to feed their families, and on the other side complain that we won't sign a striker who will demand massive wages.

With the releases of Schelotto, Kayal & Montoya, sales of Mooy, Stephens & Button, and loans of Murray & Duffy we have presumably done a lot to reduce the wage bill to a point where we could pay the wages of a striker and still see ourselves through this period, but finding a striker who is the finished article, but yet is willing to sign for us for a wage we're willing to tie ourselves to looks like a massive challenge. Youngsters that demand smaller salaries and have the potential for medium term payback are an investment that can be justified in the current financial climate. Hence Zeqiri, but not the likes of Callum Wilson. We may think that the latter would provide more immediate return on the pitch, but Bloom has always been clear that he wants a model that can be sustainable. If we are to achieve this, we will have to risk saying that we won't play the same financial game as clubs who have no intention of ever letting the fact that they can't afford something stop them from having it.

 

[Stat Brother]

Hasn't anyone forgotten that White has only had a minimal of PL experience, only Championship.
It's going to take time for him to adapt, mistakes will be made, even Dunk made mistakes when he started playing permanently for the first team.
GP has been given time, so let's us do the same.

12 months ago Webster was far from the player he is now.

Even the perma-moaners are struggling to single him out.

 

[WATFORD zero]

Hasn't anyone forgotten that White has only had a minimal of PL experience, only Championship.
It's going to take time for him to adapt, mistakes will be made, even Dunk made mistakes when he started playing permanently for the first team.
GP has been given time, so let's us do the same.

A lot of people have said, he is where Webster was a year ago, and look how much he has improved in 12 months

As somebody posted on here a couple of days ago

What do we want ?
We want the future
When do we want it ?
NOW

 

[Birdie Boy]

Duffy & Murray hardly played last season, and I don’t recall us lacking for physical presence last season really

That's because Burn was playing regularly, he isn't now. He won most defensive headers from corners, free kicks etc than anyone.

 

[Springal]

That's because Burn was playing regularly, he isn't now. He won most defensive headers from corners, free kicks etc than anyone.

So it’s not a Duffy thing then

 

[keaton]

12 months ago Webster was far from the player he is now.

Even the perma-moaners are struggling to single him out.

You're right, he was quite decent in the air when he joined us

 

[zefarelly]

Here is a good stat. We conceded 60 goals in 2018/2019 (Dunk & Duffy, played every game I think?)

Last season we conceded 54 goals. Duffy hardly played. So why are we all now convinced that Duffy is the answer to our defensive problems (based off Everton putting 4 past us)

If the new arrangement doesn't gel quickly we'll ship over 90 this season . . . . although we'll score nearly 80 so it will be entertaining!

 

[peterward]

It is too early to say for certain.

If White develops into an England international, and you sell him for seventy million in the future then it will have been a good decision.

If I were making the decision though, which obviously I'm not, I would have thought I don't have the information to know for sure, so it is a balance of probabilities. He might develop and appreciate in value or he could get a career ending injury next week. The £30 million though, that is cold hard cash. That is something certain. And that is money I could spend on a top notch striker which I need far more than a central defender of which I have too many.

He is a ball playing centre back, he is fantastic supporting the attack, which is why he was so prized by Bielsa, but he has severe limitations defensively, as you now know. Leeds could be taking the consequences of that, and have pissed thirty million down the drain. Which you have used to buy (say) Ollie Watkins, who would be transformational for you in a way White frankly will not be.

As for not helping a relegation rival, I am sorry to break it to you but Leeds will not be relegated. That is just not going to happen. You may want it desperately, but the wish is father to the thought. So that part of the decision was predicated on a false premise.

You're looking at purely from a money perspective. Our club isn't.

You're also making sweeping judgements after 4 Games.

4 games in which White has done well but made 2 mistakes against top 6 oppo, 4 games in which Koch has given away two stupid pens by his mistakes.

It wasn't by chance White was sent to any of Newport, Peterborough or Leeds. Each of those clubs was chosen by our development team because of style of play, you are aware the other championship club we'd earmarked Derby wanted him too!

Potter has wanted to play 352,343 since he's been here but didn't have the players left behind after Hughton. We played a back 4 most often last season, he very much needed/wanted white to complement the other two ball playing CBs we have Dunk and Webster. Neither Duffy or Burn are natural ball players who can thread or ping long passes.

So whilst, I agree 25 million was a very decent offer for an untested player at PL level, having the right players to enable Potter to play his preferred 3 at the back system was more important than hard cash.

Yes White has had a couple of difficult moments, any sensible person would understand he would, playing against Rashford and James Rodriguez is not the same as against Barnsleys finest.

Luckily for Ben, if you listen to what Aaron Connolly said on signing his new 4 year deal.... He said Potter told him not to worry about mistakes, they will happen, he believes in him and he will learn from them..... It gave him more freedom to play without fear of losing place for inevitable mistakes that any young player will make when adapting to the pace and quality of the PL.

He's in good hands, he'll make more mistakes, but we're not toxic like Leeds, he won't be slaughtered, he'll be encouraged and nurtured except for a few lone Muppets on our forum.

 

[Stat Brother]

So it’s not a Duffy thing then

I reckon he's the start off point.
But only now is the full effect of the transition into a younger team (as Watford said) taking effect.


The Albion's starting XI on Saturday had an average age of 23.9.

There's gonna be bumps in the road.

 

[Dorset Seagull]

Yes we have been poor defensively recently but did anyone else notice that Liverpool shipped 7 and Man U 6 at the weekend