[Albion] Player Ratings - Burnley (H)

[Gritt23]

Maybe I could never snap myself out of the Hyypia-like depression I sunk into during the first 15 mins, but I never thought we got above "ok" in this one.

That is what Burnley do to you, so it's not just from this performance, but it left me really worrying about the paper-thin squad depth and lack of creativity in there. I sincerely hope we never see that same 11 take the field again (good chance with Potter, who does love to tinker) as the formation just never worked for me.

At this level, it's not one person breaking forward, beating a man and sticking a ball in to feast on. You open teams up with good combination play, such as the way Websters run, lay-off to Propper, back to March and in to Maupay for the goal, played out. But far too often the initial advance was from, say March, and the over lap pass and combination down the wing I'm screaming was, for example, "to Burn, skin him Dan" before I caught myself and realised what I'm asking of a giant centre half.

Murray didn't have a great game, Maupay was pretty effective until the goal, and we only had one winger out there in March, and no full backs. I left the Southampton defeat much more upbeat. Wasn't so much poor performances from individuals that worried me, as a very odd line up, and formation, with the realisation of just how lacking in depth we are now. Watford was brilliant because we had a 1-0 lead and were able to throw on two pacy strikers to give them more problems. Those days are gone already, and we need Trossard back ASAP, as without him, I can't see us creating the chances, or scoring the goals to keep the relegation zone the no-go area it's been for us the last couple of years.

 

[blue-shifted]

Maybe I could never snap myself out of the Hyypia-like depression I sunk into during the first 15 mins, but I never thought we got above "ok" in this one.

That is what Burnley do to you, so it's not just from this performance, but it left me really worrying about the paper-thin squad depth and lack of creativity in there. I sincerely hope we never see that same 11 take the field again (good chance with Potter, who does love to tinker) as the formation just never worked for me.

At this level, it's not one person breaking forward, beating a man and sticking a ball in to feast on. You open teams up with good combination play, such as the way Websters run, lay-off to Propper, back to March and in to Maupay for the goal, played out. But far too often the initial advance was from, say March, and the over lap pass and combination down the wing I'm screaming was, for example, "to Burn, skin him Dan" before I caught myself and realised what I'm asking of a giant centre half.

Murray didn't have a great game, Maupay was pretty effective until the goal, and we only had one winger out there in March, and no full backs. I left the Southampton defeat much more upbeat. Wasn't so much poor performances from individuals that worried me, as a very odd line up, and formation, with the realisation of just how lacking in depth we are now. Watford was brilliant because we had a 1-0 lead and were able to throw on two pacy strikers to give them more problems. Those days are gone already, and we need Trossard back ASAP, as without him, I can't see us creating the chances, or scoring the goals to keep the relegation zone the no-go area it's been for us the last couple of years.

I agree with all of that. Especially the points you make about the paper thin squad and players playing out of position. (I was wondering this morning what Dan Burn would have said if you’d have told him a couple of years ago that he would be playing left wing back in the premier league).

It was very unlucky to lose Bernardo and Montoya in addition to the longer standing injuries, but by letting our squad run down we’ve left ourselves hostage to this kind of bad fortune.

The Newcastle game will tell us a lot about where we are.

 

[Milano]

From the ESL:

Ryan 5 - looks low on confidence IMO, not making mistakes as such but not making saves either. Swap keepers with Burnley and we win that about 3-0.
Webster 7 - I really like the look of him. Improved when we went to a more orthodox shape, as did almost everyone.
Duffy 6 - I suspect he only played due to absence of Montoya. Some good (anything in the air) some not so (not comfortable at all with possession)
Dunk 6.5 - Not up to high standards, improved as the game went on
Burn - 6 Difficult for him, looked excellent at left CB, moved due to injuries and didn’t work.
March - 6.5 Massive improvement when he moved up the field, starting him at RWB was utterly bizarre and didn’t work. Should NOT have been subbed.
Stephens - 7 - Different player to last season.
Propper - 7.5 - Different player to last season.
Gross - 7 - Got better as the game went on, another who should not have been subbed.
Murray - 6 - Out of position and still works so hard. Should have hit the target first half and that’s what he’s there for, first touch was off.
Maupay - 7 - I like him. Quick, good touch and can finish. Will get better.

Mooy - 6 - Played OK, good touch and movement, unlucky with a great run but not spotted by Connelly.
Connelly - 6 - Has the potential, no doubt IMO. Raw though, I understand why he shot in the circumstances but if he’d rolled it to Mooy it’s 2-0.
Bong - N/A - Ridiculous substitution, not needed and gave away even more momentum than the previous 2 subs, made worse because March was starting get real joy down our left as Burnley started to push forward. First Potter minus point for me, had CH done that this place would be in meltdown.

Overall 2 points very much dropped. Frustrating.

 

[Machiavelli]

From the ESL:

Ryan 5 - looks low on confidence IMO, not making mistakes as such but not making saves either. Swap keepers with Burnley and we win that about 3-0.
Webster 7 - I really like the look of him. Improved when we went to a more orthodox shape, as did almost everyone.
Duffy 6 - I suspect he only played due to absence of Montoya. Some good (anything in the air) some not so (not comfortable at all with possession)
Dunk 6.5 - Not up to high standards, improved as the game went on
Burn - 6 Difficult for him, looked excellent at left CB, moved due to injuries and didn’t work.
March - 6.5 Massive improvement when he moved up the field, starting him at RWB was utterly bizarre and didn’t work. Should NOT have been subbed.
Stephens - 7 - Different player to last season.
Propper - 7.5 - Different player to last season.
Gross - 7 - Got better as the game went on, another who should not have been subbed.
Murray - 6 - Out of position and still works so hard. Should have hit the target first half and that’s what he’s there for, first touch was off.
Maupay - 7 - I like him. Quick, good touch and can finish. Will get better.

Mooy - 6 - Played OK, good touch and movement, unlucky with a great run but not spotted by Connelly.
Connelly - 6 - Has the potential, no doubt IMO. Raw though, I understand why he shot in the circumstances but if he’d rolled it to Mooy it’s 2-0.
Bong - N/A - Ridiculous substitution, not needed and gave away even more momentum than the previous 2 subs, made worse because March was starting get real joy down our left as Burnley started to push forward. First Potter minus point for me, had CH done that this place would be in meltdown.

Overall 2 points very much dropped. Frustrating.

Many good points here (and a few I disagree with), but the emboldened passage might explain why we fell behind late on -- if only it were the case.

 

[Milano]

Many good points here (and a few I disagree with), but the emboldened passage might explain why we fell behind late on -- if only it were the case.

Yep fair enough, I meant Maupay!!! My memory is going a little!

 

[Machiavelli]

Yep fair enough, I meant Maupay!!! My memory is going a little!

I agree with you about Maupay (on the proviso that he wasn't suffering an injury), especially because Connolly had two brilliant openings (one he was offside for, the other he missed the target) and spurned them, whereas Maupay would have buried at least one of them. The stakes are too high to chuck an unproven youngster in at the deep end in situations where: we haven't won at home for 6 months+; we were five or so minutes away from securing a victory; the opposition are known for the resilience, doggedness and how they play late in the game when losing. It's this, far more than anything else, that I think Potter has got wrong since he's been with us.

 

[BensGrandad]

I do not understand what makes you think that Maupay would have buried one of the two Connolly chances as he has missed a few himself so no guarantee. That is the nature of strikers some they take some they miss even Aguero does.it.

 

[drew]

From the ESL:

Ryan 5 - looks low on confidence IMO, not making mistakes as such but not making saves either. Swap keepers with Burnley and we win that about 3-0.
Webster 7 - I really like the look of him. Improved when we went to a more orthodox shape, as did almost everyone.
Duffy 6 - I suspect he only played due to absence of Montoya. Some good (anything in the air) some not so (not comfortable at all with possession)
Dunk 6.5 - Not up to high standards, improved as the game went on
Burn - 6 Difficult for him, looked excellent at left CB, moved due to injuries and didn’t work.
March - 6.5 Massive improvement when he moved up the field, starting him at RWB was utterly bizarre and didn’t work. Should NOT have been subbed.
Stephens - 7 - Different player to last season.
Propper - 7.5 - Different player to last season.
Gross - 7 - Got better as the game went on, another who should not have been subbed.
Murray - 6 - Out of position and still works so hard. Should have hit the target first half and that’s what he’s there for, first touch was off.
Maupay - 7 - I like him. Quick, good touch and can finish. Will get better.

Mooy - 6 - Played OK, good touch and movement, unlucky with a great run but not spotted by Connelly.
Connelly - 6 - Has the potential, no doubt IMO. Raw though, I understand why he shot in the circumstances but if he’d rolled it to Mooy it’s 2-0.
Bong - N/A - Ridiculous substitution, not needed and gave away even more momentum than the previous 2 subs, made worse because March was starting get real joy down our left as Burnley started to push forward. First Potter minus point for me, had CH done that this place would be in meltdown.

Overall 2 points very much dropped. Frustrating.

Harsh on Ryan. The one shot they had was unstoppable in that it was right in the corner.

 

[Megazone]

Harsh on Ryan. The one shot they had was unstoppable in that it was right in the corner.

and an absolute bullet

 

[Icy Gull]

Harsh on Ryan. The one shot they had was unstoppable in that it was right in the corner.

This is true but he has been the victim of “unstoppable” shots all season. Just like Stockdale was when he first came here. The opposition have a shot on target and it ends up in the back of the net.

It will change

 

[sussex_guy2k2]

Ryan 5 - decent on the ball, but the fact that every shot on target he seems to face is going in at the moment really isn't a good look for a goalkeeper.
March 8 - really not suited to RWB where he started as he was too easily nullified by the fact that Burnley always had a full back free to double up on him. The improvement when he was moved to his best position was massive. A stand out performance overall, both defensively and offensively. If he could shoot, he'd be some player.
Duffy 6 - a decent game but he's just not good enough on the ball to play in a 3 at the back and it was awful to watch for the first 30 as he basically needed March and Gross to babysit him.
Dunk 7 - much improved as part of a pair but really struggled for the first 30 minutes to show the leadership that nearly cost us.
Webster 8 - very good at RB, showing real composure on the ball. Struggled massively for the first 30 as a LCB.
Burn 8 - excellent at LB going both ways, but should never, ever be tried as a WB again. Worked very well in tandem with March and Gross when he had one of them in front of him.
Stephens 7 - a decent game to keep the ball ticking over but their goal ultimately came from his area and he should've taken the foul at that stage of the game. Wasn't easily bullied though, which was good to see.
Propper 8.5 - a stand out for much of the game, even when we were struggling with 3 at the back. Just kept us moving forward at every opportunity and worked his way out of tight spots regularly.
Gross 8 - a poor opening 30 like many others, but grew massively into the game and was incredibly influential in most of our attacking moves and pressing play.
Murray 6 - clearly worried their CBs, but had one of those games where he was on the verge of being excellent without quite achieving it as he fluffed his lines on a couple of occasions and picked the wrong option a couple more.
Maupay 7 - marked up for the goal. Clearly needs to be kept central as he struggles to influence the game from a wide position. It's not entirely clear what he does really well at the moment, aside from finishing, but he at least seems to move cleverly when in central positions.

Subs
Connolly 6 - good movement and a couple of good chances. There's something there.
Mooy 6 - kept us ticking over and seemed to bring solidity to the midfield until the final minute.
Bong N/A - I don't want to mark him because doing so would apportion blame for the goal at his feet when it was Potter's error in bringing him on. His substitution encouraged them on to us at a stupid time in the game when we were totally in control and that momentary loss of shape lost us 2 valuable points.

Potter 7 - there's so much he's doing well. His starting team and formation stank of someone trying to be too clever, then he was clever enough to see the error of his ways (CH would never have made such a change even though it was obvious to see that we were being overloaded out wide and had no outball as a result) but he over complicated a game we were dominating with his substitutions that allowed Burnley back into the game. Hopefully he'll learn, because the football is a pleasure to watch at times and the improvement in some of the players is massive.

 

[the right footed denilson]

Maupay 7 - marked up for the goal. Clearly needs to be kept central as he struggles to influence the game from a wide position. It's not entirely clear what he does really well at the moment, aside from finishing, but he at least seems to move cleverly when in central positions.

.

Have to agree with this. He’s the old ‘fox in the box’ imho and is wasted doing anything other than that. There’s a few things Potter is going to have to get right for us to improve points wise. Getting the best out of him- essentially getting him in and around the box as much as possible without him dropping too deep or wide , taking the defensive burden off Propper, and playing March in his best position is three of the most pressing concerns. Overall though it’s a massive improvement from last year though.



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[sagaman]

Has Mat Ryan saved anything worthwhile in the first five matches?

 

[Milano]

Harsh on Ryan. The one shot they had was unstoppable in that it was right in the corner.

Unstoppable? I think a top 4 keeper saves that, Ryan isn’t top 4 though, which is not his fault or ours.

 

[lizard]

Unstoppable? I think a top 4 keeper saves that, Ryan isn’t top 4 though, which is not his fault or ours.

I think any other keeper in the Prem gives himself more of a chance in saving it with superior positional sense.

 

[Milano]

I think any other keeper in the Prem gives himself more of a chance in saving it with superior positional sense.

You think he should have saved it then?

 

[lizard]

You think he should have saved it then?

I think if he'd have been a yard further across his box he would have saved it.

We were unlucky at the end, but to be totally honest could have been two down in the first twenty minutes.
Seems we're beginning to plod out similar excuses to Huddersfield last season at a very similar time under relatively similar circumstances, with one of their plodders now getting game time with us.

 

[sussex_guy2k2]

Have to agree with this. He’s the old ‘fox in the box’ imho and is wasted doing anything other than that. There’s a few things Potter is going to have to get right for us to improve points wise. Getting the best out of him- essentially getting him in and around the box as much as possible without him dropping too deep or wide , taking the defensive burden off Propper, and playing March in his best position is three of the most pressing concerns. Overall though it’s a massive improvement from last year though.



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In fairness, CH did neither of the latter two for most of his time here. Totally agree re Maupay. There's something there but it's not being properly used quite yet.