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Play off for fourth Champions League place?



keaton

Big heart, hot blood and balls. Big balls
Nov 18, 2004
9,972
From the Guardian
The Premier League is considering introducing a play-off system to determine the fourth club to qualify for the following season's European Champions League.

Currently the club which finishes fourth goes through but the new proposal would mean a play-off between the clubs finishing fourth, fifth, sixth and seventh. The intention is to inject more competition into a league in which qualification has for years remained in the hands of the same four clubs.

Premier League sources have confirmed that the play-off proposal was presented at the most recent meeting of all clubs, on 4 February, and the league's chief executive, Richard Scudamore, was authorised to return with further details in April.

It is understood that the idea was enthusiastically supported by all clubs – except the so-called big four of Chelsea, Manchester United, Arsenal and Liverpool. Scudamore, and the league's secretary, Mike Foster, will examine the practicalities of how a play-off system could work: whether it should take the form of a home-and-away knockout system, similar to that in the Football League, or incorporate seeding. They will also look into when matches could be fitted into a crowded fixture calendar before making recommendations.

The idea was presented as part of the Premier League's strategic review of its format and operations and springs from two particular motivations. The first is to crack the problem of England's top league becoming less open and competitive, with the richest clubs, Manchester United, Chelsea, Arsenal and Liverpool, having strengthened their hold on the top four places over several years. One league source said it was an odd twist that the idea has been raised now, in a season when Liverpool's claim to the fourth place is being seriously challenged.

The response among clubs outside the top four is understood to have been positive, with some believing that a play-off system would create more competitive matches and give more clubs a prize to challenge for. Most clubs now feel they have no chance of attaining fourth place but almost the whole Premier League could be brought into a competition to finish seventh and make it to the play-offs. The medium-sized clubs, which increasingly aspire to break the cartel, are said to have been enthusiastic, seeing play-offs as a great opportunity.

The big four, who have been qualifying on merit at the end of each season and reaping the footballing and financial rewards of Champions League participation are understood to have been less keen. Self-interest is clearly a factor, with those clubs concerned about protecting their own advantages. However, there is also a feeling that the league should be more sophisticated about addressing its major challenges, particularly the financial ones, rather than incorpor-ating an awkward play-off system for a prize as ostensibly moderate as fourth place.

The other motivation for the play-offs is a waning of the proposal for an international round of matches, dubbed "Game 39", which was widely criticised for lacking coherence and being territorially expansionist. The play-offs would mean extra matches, which would be sold to pay-television and so generate more money for all clubs.

The consistent qualification of the same four clubs, widely seen as stifling competition, is not replicated across Europe. The Premier League largely blames the Uefa Champions League money, distributed to participating clubs, for entrenching the big four's financial power. Uefa, however, points out that Champions League income represents a small part, 8–13%, of Manchester United's, Chelsea's, Arsenal's and Liverpool's total turnover. Most of the big clubs' money is made in this country; Premier League television income is relatively evenly distributed but United, Chelsea and Arsenal in particular make much more than their nearest rivals from commercial activities and match-day revenues in the Premier League.

The Dutch league tried a play-off system for the second Champions League qualification place but abandoned it after the 2007-08 season, when FC Twente Enschede beat Ajax 2-1. The issues in Holland were the risk of crowd trouble at such high-stakes matches and a perception that the play-offs were one-sided.

In the Premier League there is some confidence that neither of those would present major problems. As a means of encouraging competition, opportunities and increasing income, the play-off proposal already seems to have enough support to suggest it could gain the necessary 14-6 majority to be implemented.
 




strings

Moving further North...
Feb 19, 2006
9,969
Barnsley
I sort of like that idea - I love the football league play-offs. In my opinion they are one of the best soccerball competitions in the world. However, I worry that play-offs could give the likes of Liverpool a get out of jail free card. On they other hand, we could find clubs like Fulham in the Champions league, which I would love.

I would suck it and see for two seasons - it certainly has potential.
 


Oct 25, 2003
23,964
yep, i'd go along with that

besides, the team that comes 4th aint THAT great are they? so not sure they should automatically be given the same benefits as the team that wins it (yeah i know they have to go through a qualifying round to get in)

go for it! it'd be exciting anyway
 


Common as Mook

Not Posh as Fook
Jul 26, 2004
5,642
Sounds on the face of it as a step in the right direction.

However, this shouldn't even be an argument as the CL should be the top 2 teams only.
 


Hove Seagull

Well-known member
Feb 18, 2008
1,254
Havant
Seems a bit ridiculous that, if over the course of the season you get enough points to finish fourth and don't qualify at the expense of the team that finished seventh!
 








Husty

Mooderator
Oct 18, 2008
11,998
I like that idea very much, removes the top 4 thing because theres only 3 safe spots, and that fourth spot could really go to anyone (fulham could of had it last year for example)
 




strings

Moving further North...
Feb 19, 2006
9,969
Barnsley
Seems a bit ridiculous that, if over the course of the season you get enough points to finish fourth and don't qualify at the expense of the team that finished seventh!

Does the same comment go for the football league play-offs? West Ham (from memory) came 6th and got promoted through the play-offs ahead of the teams that cam 3rd, 4th and 5th.
 


Common as Mook

Not Posh as Fook
Jul 26, 2004
5,642
Does the same comment go for the football league play-offs? West Ham (from memory) came 6th and got promoted through the play-offs ahead of the teams that cam 3rd, 4th and 5th.

Didn't we finish 6th when we got promoted to the Championship?
 










Hove Seagull

Well-known member
Feb 18, 2008
1,254
Havant
Does the same comment go for the football league play-offs? West Ham (from memory) came 6th and got promoted through the play-offs ahead of the teams that cam 3rd, 4th and 5th.

In my humble opinion, yes it does. Whilst, in the lower leagues, play-offs can generate some much-needed revenue for clubs and a great day out at Wembley for the fans, I don't think it's just if the team that achieves the higher league position at the end of the season doesn't benefit. With regard to the Wembley thing, doesn't it take the limelight away from the division champions?
 




Marty McFly

Seagulls Over Canada
Aug 19, 2006
3,655
La Pêche, Quebec
¤DãŃn¥ §êãGüLL¤;3353722 said:
Would be better to have a one off contest between the 4th placed team and the FA Cup winner.

Yeah. I'd agree with that. And the loser can still take the UEFA Cup/Europa League/European Carling Cup place.
 




Tooting Gull

Well-known member
Jul 5, 2003
11,033
Good idea. It's not like you're upsetting anyone you care about - they finished fourth, and so have earned nothing. The sooner, the better. Be nice to see some of these bigger teams sweating on a play-off that really mattered.
 


Theatre of Trees

Well-known member
Jul 5, 2003
7,839
TQ2905
I think it would be better if it included 4th and 5th plus the two winners of the cups. Only opening it up to the 6th and 7th placed teams if the cups have been won be teams who finished in the top 3.
 




Tricky Dicky

New member
Jul 27, 2004
13,558
Sunny Shoreham
Surely the whole point of a divisional based system is that the teams end up on the correct order over the course of the whole season. A team finishing 4th is very entitled to say that they are better than a team finishing 6th, and the best 4 teams should qualify for the CL. Theoretically a team finishing 4th could have 20 more points than a team in 6th (not very likely, I grant, but possible).

It seams a bit false, that to keep interest in the prem you create mini-leagues within the prem - surely it would be better to make the entire prem more evenly competitive and unpredictable somehow.
 


Spider

New member
Sep 15, 2007
3,614
It's a good idea but I agree would be brilliant to see the FA Cup winners involved. Plus, having 7 teams involved in the Champions League in a League of 20 seems a bit excessive. Maybe it should be a Play Off between 3rd, 4th, 5th and 6th with two teams going through.

As for it giving Liverpool a get out of jail free card. This probably would happen a few times but as soon as other teams win a few against them the balance will start to shift and there won't be such a difference between the two teams.
 


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