[News] Plane gone down in the French Alps?

[symyjym]

Actually, you've indirectly made me think of another argument in favour of keeping pilots: how many incidents caused by technical and mechanical faults have been avoided due to the quick-thinking actions of the crew? Lots, I would say.

Yes, making correct decisions when systems fail, which isn't uncommon, is what they are paid to do. Air France wasn't an emergency but the copilot failed to react with standard procedures. The less experienced of the two copliots was fully pulling the nose of the plane up, until the Captain walked in. You heard the captain NO NO NO NO NO, but it was too late to correct it.

Planes more or less fly themselves today, but when they get confused, they hand over control to the flight deck.

 

[symyjym]

A plane could easily be made malfunction proof - for example, just as it has two engines, build it with two computers... Equally, there could be an override for it to be controlled by the control room in time of emergency.

It could soon be proven beyond all doubt that human error/sabotage is far riskier than pilotless aircraft... in the same way, in our lifetimes, human drivers will largely be a thing of the past for the same reasons.

I doubt it, we cannot even get a decent service from the seagull player because of technical difficulties. Unless you are 5 years old it won't happen in your lifetime

 

[Thunder Bolt]

I doubt it, we cannot even get a decent service from the seagull player because of technical difficulties. Unless you are 5 years old it won't happen in your lifetime

You can hardly switch it off and switch it back on again at 35,000 feet.

 

[Fungus]

A plane could easily be made malfunction proof - for example, just as it has two engines, build it with two computers.

Both running the same software? We all know it's impossible to make software 100% bug-free. There is no easy answer.

 

[Nibble]

I think this is an horrific crime. A mass murder. I don't make allowances for this nut job's state of mind, he's a murdering psycho and to do what he did is inexcusable.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

To be fair, it is likely he was clinically depressed given recent evidence. If this is the case, it's likely that his fundamental rationality was at an absolute minimum.

That of course in no way justifies his actions during this atrocity, but it's important to understand what drives a human being to do such a thing.

Conversely, there are suggestions that he was a psychopath, as he was heard to be calm rather than hysterical during his final moments.

Either way, if we can take anything from this, we know that human beings can be extremely unpredictable - and we are products of both our environments and our biology. Both nature and nurture contribute towards our actions.

If we can learn from such awful events such as this and prevent it in the future, then this kind of tragic loss of lives isn't completely wasted.

Suicidal people after often calm in the run up to the act. This is a very common trait.

 

[Nibble]

To be fair, it is likely he was clinically depressed given recent evidence. If this is the case, it's likely that his fundamental rationality was at an absolute minimum.

That of course in no way justifies his actions during this atrocity, but it's important to understand what drives a human being to do such a thing.

Conversely, there are suggestions that he was a psychopath, as he was heard to be calm rather than hysterical during his final moments.

Either way, if we can take anything from this, we know that human beings can be extremely unpredictable - and we are products of both our environments and our biology. Both nature and nurture contribute towards our actions.

If we can learn from such awful events such as this and prevent it in the future, then this kind of tragic loss of lives isn't completely wasted.

No offence but this is pure speculation from a layman.

 

[Nibble]

Of course, none taken - however, that surely applies to us all, so what's the point in discussing it at all then - even the experts will disagree.

I see this as a malfunction of the human condition. I hope we can learn from it, understand what caused it, in order to prevent it from happening again in the future.

The bloke was obviously troubled, depressed or insane. Seeing it like this is far more useful than dismissing it as merely a "bad person doing bad things"

I've learned it's probably best not to allow suicidal head mentals to fly planes.

 

[Justice]

Of course, none taken - however, that surely applies to us all, so what's the point in discussing it at all then - even the experts will disagree.

I see this as a malfunction of the human condition. I hope we can learn from it, understand what caused it, in order to prevent it from happening again in the future.

The bloke was obviously troubled, depressed or insane. Seeing it like this is far more useful than dismissing it as merely a "bad person doing bad things"

He had planned the whole thing stop making excuses.

 

[ThePompousPaladin]

I think this is an horrific crime. A mass murder. I don't make allowances for this nut job's state of mind, he's a murdering psycho and to do what he did is inexcusable.

I completely agree with all 5 of your statements. I'd like to add that hopefully at some point in the future we'll be able to treat this kind of illness/disease.

 

[Nibble]

I completely agree with all 5 of your statements. I'd like to add that hopefully at some point in the future we'll be able to treat this kind of illness/disease.

To be fair he did come up with a fairly effective way of ending his problems.

 

[Diablo]

Just horrendous for murdered victims and families...But also for his family..I imagine most know someone who has taken their own life,,A way out for them ..but horrible for those left behind.... my thoughts/prayers are for all victims of this tragedy.

 

[dazzer6666]

Would be interesting to see how this changes people's thoughts on pilotless aircraft. We're in an era now where the first driverless cars are being tested on public roads, and most passenger flights now are fly-by-wire anyway (i.e. near as makes no difference - the planes fly themselves.) I reckon the majority of air disasters in recent years have been the result of pilot or ATC error. And yet, that being said, psychologically, people won't want to fly unless there's at least two human beings positioned at the controls.

Good point. In this case if BOTH pilots had been locked outside for a while this wouldn't have happened.

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

Suicidal people after often calm in the run up to the act. This is a very common trait.

After a cousin of mine took his own life a few years ago, I had a conversation with an acquaintance who works for a mental health charity who said that often people who have decided their course of action ( my cousin's course of action was well planned) will seem very happy in the run-up to the final act, precisely because they have worked out and decided how they are going to resolve things.

 

[Ninja Elephant]

The ignorance about mental health on this thread is sad. I'm not condoning the action of bringing down the plane, of course, but that's one thing. The attitude of a number of people on this thread is another.

Mental health problems manifest themselves in a lot of different ways, and different people deal with them in different ways, slagging off people who couldn't cope with theirs is short sighted and ignorant of the reality that there are plenty of people in YOUR life with struggles you know absolutely nothing about, until they act out.

 

[dazzer6666]

The ignorance about mental health on this thread is sad. I'm not condoning the action of bringing down the plane, of course, but that's one thing. The attitude of a number of people on this thread is another.

Mental health problems manifest themselves in a lot of different ways, and different people deal with them in different ways, slagging off people who couldn't cope with theirs is short sighted and ignorant of the reality that there are plenty of people in YOUR life with struggles you know absolutely nothing about, until they act out.

Ain't that the truth.........

 

[Mackenzie]

The ignorance about mental health on this thread is sad. I'm not condoning the action of bringing down the plane, of course, but that's one thing. The attitude of a number of people on this thread is another.

Mental health problems manifest themselves in a lot of different ways, and different people deal with them in different ways, slagging off people who couldn't cope with theirs is short sighted and ignorant of the reality that there are plenty of people in YOUR life with struggles you know absolutely nothing about, until they act out.

I must admit I'm struggling to have much sympathy with Lubitz and his condition.

Sorry.

 

[Ninja Elephant]

I must admit I'm struggling to have much sympathy with Lubitz and his condition.

Sorry.

It isn't about that though is it? Nobody would try and justify his actions. On the assumption that this man's demons caused him to take control of that plane and deliberately fly it into the Alps then he's made a tragic mistake and a terrible decision. Nobody is trying to justify his actions or excuse them, but some of the opinions and bile spouted on this thread reflect particularly badly on the people making the comments. That's my opinion, and I don't think it's a point which needs much discussion.

 

[dazzer6666]

It isn't about that though is it? Nobody would try and justify his actions. On the assumption that this man's demons caused him to take control of that plane and deliberately fly it into the Alps then he's made a tragic mistake and a terrible decision. Nobody is trying to justify his actions or excuse them, but some of the opinions and bile spouted on this thread reflect particularly badly on the people making the comments. That's my opinion, and I don't think it's a point which needs much discussion.

Spot on

 

[Mackenzie]

It isn't about that though is it? Nobody would try and justify his actions. On the assumption that this man's demons caused him to take control of that plane and deliberately fly it into the Alps then he's made a tragic mistake and a terrible decision. Nobody is trying to justify his actions or excuse them, but some of the opinions and bile spouted on this thread reflect particularly badly on the people making the comments. That's my opinion, and I don't think it's a point which needs much discussion.

I suspect that much of the bile written on here is a result of anger and revulsion at what this fellow did. You can forgive people's anger.