Pietersen at it again.

[mikeyjh]

He's indirectly done sales of Prior's biography plenty of favours.

He probably needed it, you can't exactly see it being a best seller can you.....

 

[vegster]

Ricky Ponting now saying that he saw a degree of bullying if an England fielder dropped a catch or mis-fielded. I wonder what happened in the 70's and 80's when an Aussie fielder dropped a catch off Lillie or Thompson ? Pretty sure that the answer would be unprintable.

 

[Seagull over Canaryland]

Ricky Ponting now saying that he saw a degree of bullying if an England fielder dropped a catch or mis-fielded. I wonder what happened in the 70's and 80's when an Aussie fielder dropped a catch off Lillie or Thompson ? Pretty sure that the answer would be unprintable.

I recall seeing and hearing Merv Hughes sledge his Aussie team mates in a tour match against Sussex at Hove. No one in the County Ground was left in any doubt as to what Merv thought of the fielder's efforts. He got stuck into his fellow bowlers too. Some of it seemed to be playing to the crowd - but there was definitely also an underlying threat. Yet it all seemed to be taken in good spirit, maybe part of the Aussie psyche in that era. I guess it depends if you are the shrinking wallflower type. But the Aussies didn't take too many prisoners in their own dressing rooms. Kim Hughes certainly felt the backlash.

I also thought Merv was giving a message for the Sussex players to the effect: 'if I can happily dish out that sort of verbals to my team mates then just wait 'til it's your turn....'. All part of ramping up the psychological pressure, which the Aussies were so good at back then. 'Mental disintegration' etc.

 

[Man of Harveys]

If he's 'toxically foul' that suggests every England coach and captain and the ECB have failed massively in letting him continue to play for England for 8 years

It's not difficult: employers often put up with some horrendous individuals because they are nonetheless terrific at their job. Yes, you can try and manage difficult people (right Albion, re. Mr Poyet?), but some are simply beyond that, with an almost willful desire to disrupt. Pietersen is clearly in that category and it was finally decided enough was enough - I'd have shoved the strutting mentalist out years earlier.

 

[El Presidente]

There's a brilliant review of all this (and England cricket in general) at http://www.thefulltoss.com

 

[spring hall convert]

I think you are missing the point RE the bullying.

What Pietersen is saying and what makes this bullying is that certain players got it and others didn't. Pietersen isn't complaining about being bullied himself, he is suggesting that there was a cabal of players motivated by self-interest making it difficult for new players to come into the side.

If you look at the performance of the new caps from Trott to the end of the Flower era (a point I've made several times on this forum before) it would seem to back him up.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_England_Test_cricketers

 

[Pavilionaire]

But a lot of those that came in for their debuts were just not very good, full-stop.

The likes of Compton, Carberry, Rankin, Shahzad, Kerrigan, Woakes, Plunkett are reasonable county players, but not in the same class as the likes of Trott, Root, Bresnan and Finn that came into that dressing room and delivered.

 

[spring hall convert]

But a lot of those that came in for their debuts were just not very good, full-stop.

The likes of Compton, Carberry, Rankin, Shahzad, Kerrigan, Woakes, Plunkett are reasonable county players, but not in the same class as the likes of Trott, Root, Bresnan and Finn that came into that dressing room and delivered.

In the 5 years since Trott making his debut until Flower going you can only make a case for 2 players. Finn who ended up so shot under Flower he was a net bowler and Root who ended the Flower era as one of the players whose place was most under threat.

Pietersen is no saint but clearly there was something going on. We've had tacit admissions from Tremlett, Trott and Shahzad.

 

[Bold Seagull]

But a lot of those that came in for their debuts were just not very good, full-stop.

The likes of Compton, Carberry, Rankin, Shahzad, Kerrigan, Woakes, Plunkett are reasonable county players, but not in the same class as the likes of Trott, Root, Bresnan and Finn that came into that dressing room and delivered.

Interesting you mention Finn as this England setup very nearly destroyed one of our best exciting young bowlers.

Also Joe Root, completely messed about last year in terms of where he batted, and again reduced his form to zero. I really think some serious cliques and issues have been behind this slump, in much the same way it did with the Aussies, only that they saw it quickly, acted and Lehman nipped it in the bud for a turnaround far in advance of England with a squad that isn't any better in all honesty.

 

[spring hall convert]

Interesting you mention Finn as this England setup very nearly destroyed one of our best exciting young bowlers.

Also Joe Root, completely messed about last year in terms of where he batted, and again reduced his form to zero. I really think some serious cliques and issues have been behind this slump, in much the same way it did with the Aussies, only that they saw it quickly, acted and Lehman nipped it in the bud for a turnaround far in advance of England with a squad that isn't any better in all honesty.

Exactly - Finn and Root should be leading the case against the dressing room and Flower.

 

[Billy the Fish]

Surprised nobody has commented about the ECB leaking their counter claims against KP. It's one thing KP telling his own jackandory tales in a book, it's quite another when the governing body has to do it and it reeks of the smalltime old boys network mentality I thought they were moving away from.

 

[spring hall convert]

Surprised nobody has commented about the ECB leaking their counter claims against KP. It's one thing KP telling his own jackandory tales in a book, it's quite another when the governing body has to do it and it reeks of the smalltime old boys network mentality I thought they were moving away from.

I think it's got Flower's handprints all over it, this leak. I think he's been leaking and briefing against Pietersen for sometime. The credibility of a lot of the information in the leak is in question as well.

 

[spring hall convert]

Bear in mind that Flower is still a "grande fromage" in English cricket. Does he still have our full confidence?

 

[KZNSeagull]

Dennis does cricket has leaked the full dossier:

http://dennisdoescricket.com/50-shades-kp/.

Re the ECB - all seems rather childish to me. Cannot see how Flower can survive this, even if the allegations against him are false - but then we will never know if they are true or not as no-one appears to trust what the ECB say. Complete clearout required I reckon.

 

[Gwylan]

Finn who ended up so shot under Flower he was a net bowler

Interesting you mention Finn as this England setup very nearly destroyed one of our best exciting young bowlers.

I think this is a gross over-simplification. Finn's problems stemmed from the change in the law that meant he was no-balled when he hit the stumps. He had to go away and completely rework his run-up and action - that would have happened whoever was in charge. Maybe Flower contributed to Finn's problems but an overhaul like that is likely to lead to problems.

It's hard to take sides on this without being there - my guess is that all parties are equally to blame. I will say this though, and I'm surprised no-one has pointed this out, the ECB had obviously decided that the atmosphere was so poisonous that KP and the Anderson/Broad axis couldn't work together but felt that the bowlers were a better long-term bet. Can't say I blame them for that

 

[Mackenzie]

Dennis does cricket has leaked the full dossier:

http://dennisdoescricket.com/50-shades-kp/.

Re the ECB - all seems rather childish to me. Cannot see how Flower can survive this, even if the allegations against him are false - but then we will never know if they are true or not as no-one appears to trust what the ECB say. Complete clearout required I reckon.

Flower already gone. Peter Moores is the head coach now.

 

[KZNSeagull]

Flower already gone. Peter Moores is the head coach now.

Flower is still with the ECB coaching the Lions I think.

 

[Leekbrookgull]

England 'A' as it was then played a full strenght Australian side at Worcester around 2009 in the 1st innings England just after tea were something like 190 for no wkt,Brett Lee had looked nothing special until Ponting gave him a mouth full (mainly due to what many would consider Lee's jokey-bloke manner with the crowd) Lee was brought straight back into the attack and within 5/6 overs Brett Lee overs he had reduced England to something like 215-4-6 in which he took five wickets in a devastating spell of fast bowling,Ponting was'nt bothered who heard his remarks he wanted a performance and got it.

 

[DumLum]

England 'A' as it was then played a full strenght Australian side at Worcester around 2009 in the 1st innings England just after tea were something like 190 for no wkt,Brett Lee had looked nothing special until Ponting gave him a mouth full (mainly due to what many would consider Lee's jokey-bloke manner with the crowd) Lee was brought straight back into the attack and within 5/6 overs Brett Lee overs he had reduced England to something like 215-4-6 in which he took five wickets in a devastating spell of fast bowling,Ponting was'nt bothered who heard his remarks he wanted a performance and got it.

Ponting has backed KP's claims and so have a growing number of people close to the team on Radio 5 in the last couple of days.

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2014/oct/08/ricky-ponting-england-cricket-team-pietersen-bullying

 

[Guinness Boy]

Ponting has backed KP's claims and so have a growing number of people close to the team on Radio 5 in the last couple of days.

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2014/oct/08/ricky-ponting-england-cricket-team-pietersen-bullying

Well I know it's now a cliché but he would say that wouldn't he?

If Pietersen had any care for team England he would have stuck with what happens on tour stays on tour. But since he's a mercenary Saffie with a book tour coming up he's chosen to open up wounds that Peter Moores has spent all summer healing.

I expect Piers Morgan is delighted, another one who claims to have England's best interests at heart when it's actually all about him.