[Help] PCN help Please.

[Arthritic Toe]

I recieved a lovely letter from ukpc with a photo of my car parked (quite well if I do say myself!) claiming 'vehicle owner/driver left site'. No picture of alleged deed just photo of my car and then of it again 10 mins later. They are requesting £100. With basically no evidence they are surely just trying it on. Happy to admit my car was parked for just over an hour in a 3 hour free parking site.

Out of interest, what does "owner/driver left site" mean? Isn't that the point of parking a car - i.e. that you get out of it and go somewhere?

 

[Soton Seagull]

Out of interest, what does "owner/driver left site" mean? Isn't that the point of parking a car - i.e. that you get out of it and go somewhere?

I believe it refers to them saying you have left the retail park or shop site; i.e you have 'agreed' by deemed contract to not exit the site and stay within the shops etc. They've presented no evidence that myself/anyone else did so but have sent an invoice for £100 regrdless.

 

[saltdeanseagull1]

A few run away when they see a carefully written appeal from the registered keeper, not saying who was driving (e.g. HIghview at Tesco do a runner as soon as they see the MSE template appeal from the parking forum).

But not IPC firms, they keep bothering you like a nasty itch and many try suing. Happy to help anyone with court case defences against this scam. IPC firms do not offer any appeal worth trying.

Hi, this was my original thread, just to check GXS are an IPC firm?, so it is likely they will try and go to court. As annoying as it is I'm kida tempted to pay the thing (reduced to £60) as cant be done with the hassle. It was also my Wifes fault as she did not read the signage properly so not sure if there is much of a defence if it did go to court, unless you know differently?
Thanks.

 

[BensGrandad]

Just a warning to all. My son received a ticket for parking at Asda in the Marina at 8.00pm on a Sunday evening when the store was closed. He assumed, wrongly it seems, that parking was permitted when the store was closed. I am sure many others think the same. He was in his company car so the firm got the ticket and paid the £40, not sure whether they will stop it from his wages but that wouldnt help a private motorist and as it went to the firm he had no chance to contest it, which I would have suggested.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Hi, this was my original thread, just to check GXS are an IPC firm?, so it is likely they will try and go to court. As annoying as it is I'm kida tempted to pay the thing (reduced to £60) as cant be done with the hassle. It was also my Wifes fault as she did not read the signage properly so not sure if there is much of a defence if it did go to court, unless you know differently?
Thanks.

Who's told you it's likely to go to court ? Utter rubbish - only a small percentage end up there and normally when the registered keeper hasn't followed the guidance in the Newbies thread. You did read that didn't you ? And you did use the wording suggested ? It's one letter / email - how is that hassle ? It's EXACTLY because people say I'd rather pay than have the hassle that these criminals get away with it.

 

[BensGrandad]

Who's told you it's likely to go to court ? Utter rubbish - only a small percentage end up there and normally when the registered keeper hasn't followed the g uidance in the Newbies thread. You did read that didn't you ? And you did use the wording suggested ? It's one letter / email - how is that hassle ?It's EXACTLY because people say I'd rather pay than have the hassle that these criminals get away with it.

Why does it seem that there is nothing being done to make their operations illegal, as was done with clamping?

 

[Gazwag]

Who's told you it's likely to go to court ? Utter rubbish - only a small percentage end up there and normally when the registered keeper hasn't followed the guidance in the Newbies thread. You did read that didn't you ? And you did use the wording suggested ? It's one letter / email - how is that hassle ? It's EXACTLY because people say I'd rather pay than have the hassle that these criminals get away with it.

Unless I read it wrong Lady Seagull told him they might in the quote to his post

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Unless I read it wrong Lady Seagull told him they might in the quote to his post

"Might" and "Likely" are two entirely different words. Lady Seagull is correct …. it 'might' go to court BUT if the guidance is followed that 'might' becomes an 'unlikely'. These people prey on those they think will concede. I've helped hundreds of people with these tickets and as yet not one single person I've helped has ended up paying ( I'll admit a few have never come back to me after I've helped them so there's a possibility they may have paid ).

 

[LadySeagull]

I won a case in court again today v a local parking firm. The Judge was a little difficult to get through to though, IMHO.

Anyway the one about 'leaving the site' should be easy to win at POPLA, if they have no photos of the driver leaving the site. You can tell by viewing the photos on UKPC's website. They are all shown there at pre-POPLA stage.

As for IPC firm PCNs, never just pay them. You are funding and sponsoring the scam. Don't be that person 'for an easy life'.

As for the Q asking what is being done about it, well Parliament passed a new Act in 2018 for this exact purpose and consultation about the new Code of Practice (a proper one) is in hand. POPLA and the useless IPC version (aka kangaroo court) will be no more. HOWEVER, the appeals will be handled on a more legit & regulatory footing and people who lose might find it harder to win in court than cases are now.

In my experience, it's currently pretty easy to defend and win in court v a PPC scammer, in most cases.

 

[Brightonfan1983]

I doubt this is of any use, but for what it's worth...

I picked up a PCN in Billingshurst a couple of years back, Jengers Mead. Notorious, apparently, for predatory ticketing. Did some research in the usual places and and plumped for holding my breath and not responding to any of their robo-lawyer letters. There's a website out there I can't find now that shows a monthly total of how many of these firms actually go as far as court. For this company, and most if I'm honest, it was miniscule.

I think I had two letters, maybe three, but nothing since.

Not for a second am I suggesting this as the best action to take; it felt like falling into a hedge of stinging nettles but miraculously not getting stung.

 

[B-right-on]

My mates Mrs had a PCN for parking in Worthing centre car park. She'd paid for the ticket but got the PCN anyway. When she quiried it, the machine was broken and so they couldn't tell who had paid and who hadn't. Asked her to prove she'd paid but she'd thrown the ticket as this was a month later.

Told her to write a letter following Lady Seagulls advice. They got a few more threats but not heard anything back for months. She was all ready just to pay the fine as she couldn't prove she'd paid for a ticket. Just wonder how many people fell for it.

 

[Bold Seagull]

Just a warning to all. My son received a ticket for parking at Asda in the Marina at 8.00pm on a Sunday evening when the store was closed. He assumed, wrongly it seems, that parking was permitted when the store was closed. I am sure many others think the same. He was in his company car so the firm got the ticket and paid the £40, not sure whether they will stop it from his wages but that wouldnt help a private motorist and as it went to the firm he had no chance to contest it, which I would have suggested.

Just got the same for Sunday 22 Dec. We mistakenly shopped in Asda at 16.00 which closed at 17.00 thinking we could leave the car there and went to the cinema - the signage certainly isn’t clear the parking restrictions apply outside opening times.

So anyway we ended up in there for 4hrs 38mins. I’ve pm’d [MENTION=18265]LadySeagull[/MENTION], the firm is ParkingEye, fine is £70.

 

[CheeseRolls]

I won a case in court again today v a local parking scum firm. The Judge was a little difficult to get through to though, IMHO.

Anyway the one about 'leaving the site' should be easy to win at POPLA, if they have no photos of the driver leaving the site. You can tell by viewing the photos on UKPC's website. They are all shown there at pre-POPLA stage.

As for IPC firm PCNs, never just pay them. You are funding and sponsoring the scam. Don't be that person 'for an easy life'.

I wish the British public were more robust against this scam and covered their numberplates when leaving any retail park (you do NOT *have to* show scammer cameras your VRN at all, as long as you remove the duct tape from your rear numberplate once round the corner after driving out).

If we all did that, then ANPR camera PCN firms would die out within months. It would be so easy to bring them down.

As for the Q asking what is being done about it, well Parliament passed a new Act in 2018 for this exact purpose and consultation about the new Code of Practice (a proper one) is in hand. POPLA and the useless IPC version (aka kangaroo court) will be no more. HOWEVER, the appeals will be handled on a more legit & regulatory footing and people who lose might find it harder to win in court than cases are now. In my experience, it's currently pretty easy to defend and win in court v a PPC scammer, in most cases.


PS: I see I have several pm's and will try to find time to reply to you all tomorrow.

Interested to know what the answer is here. I admire what you do in this space, there are so many rip off merchants, scams and poor signage designed to catch the unaware, but there are also legitimate reasons, why retailers need to move people along from loitering in their car parks. I got a fine from Lidl in Worthing, when I wasn't aware they had shortened their parking time from 90 minutes to an hour a couple of years back. A quick word in store and it was cancelled. After that it became a lot less hassle getting a parking space in their car park, when I wanted to do my shopping. Another great example (although not one likely to gain much sympathy), is the McDonalds at Gatwick, which could be missing out on hundreds of pounds of revenue, for a milkshake, whilst someone camps in their car park waiting for someone to arrive off a delayed flight. If the fine was a couple of quid, it would still be less than paying for airport parking.

I like the way that you and others provide assistance regardless of the circumstances, but I can't help noticing, how many of the hard luck stories contain an element, of I thought I was being clever getting something for nothing and now I am annoyed with myself because I got caught.

Personally I like using Ringgo, which charges 20p every time you use it, but at least provides a useful service, even allowing you to top up if you are going to return late. Shoreham Station now has SABA. I am not going to provide them with my credit card details for the convenience of mobile payments. Yet another name change for Indigo

 

[LadySeagull]

there are also legitimate reasons, why retailers need to move people along from loitering in their car parks.

But parking firms don't achieve that and do not ever want to achieve that!

The ParkingEye ones at the Marina are an unfair change on how the rules used to be. No-one knows that you can't park there when the Asda is closed, as the signs are horribly unclear.

Anyway these are potentially winnable at POPLA stage for various reasons I won't go into here, and I will reply this week sometime(!) to anyone who pm's me for help with a private PCN.

 

[Bold Seagull]

Interested to know what the answer is here. I admire what you do in this space, there are so many rip off merchants, scams and poor signage designed to catch the unaware, but there are also legitimate reasons, why retailers need to move people along from loitering in their car parks. I got a fine from Lidl in Worthing, when I wasn't aware they had shortened their parking time from 90 minutes to an hour a couple of years back. A quick word in store and it was cancelled. After that it became a lot less hassle getting a parking space in their car park, when I wanted to do my shopping. Another great example (although not one likely to gain much sympathy), is the McDonalds at Gatwick, which could be missing out on hundreds of pounds of revenue, for a milkshake, whilst someone camps in their car park waiting for someone to arrive off a delayed flight. If the fine was a couple of quid, it would still be less than paying for airport parking.

I like the way that you and others provide assistance regardless of the circumstances, but I can't help noticing, how many of the hard luck stories contain an element, of I thought I was being clever getting something for nothing and now I am annoyed with myself because I got caught.

Personally I like using Ringgo, which charges 20p every time you use it, but at least provides a useful service, even allowing you to top up if you are going to return late. Shoreham Station now has SABA. I am not going to provide them with my credit card details for the convenience of mobile payments. Yet another name change for Indigo

We genuinely read the sign wrong; no being clever, quite the opposite.

Will pay it if I need to as our mistake, but if there is likely success of appeal, I’ll try that first.

If a company’s only source of income is parking fines, do you think they’re looking to deter parking outside the rules or encourage it as much as they can within the limits of the law? I bet they spend hours on size of text and wording to be compliant but also max chance of being read wrong on first glance.

 

[BensGrandad]

My sister in law got a ticket at The Sussex Yeoman in Worthing for exceeding the 2 hours permitted. She said it was due to waiting over 1 hour between starter and main as they had forgotten them and then when the main arrived it was all wrong so had to be redone. I advised her to go and see the manager to get it cancelled. She did this and after checking out the computer for the details of their party not only did he say he would contact the company to have it cancelled he gave her a voucher to be spent at the pub. All due to the advice given on NSC.

 

[LadySeagull]

My sister in law got a ticket at The Sussex Yeoman in Worthing for exceeding the 2 hours permitted. She said it was due to waiting over 1 hour between starter and main as they had forgotten them and then when the main arrived it was all wrong so had to be redone. I advised her to go and see the manager to get it cancelled. She did this and after checking out the computer for the details of their party not only did he say he would contact the company to have it cancelled he gave her a voucher to be spent at the pub. All due to the advice given on NSC.

So glad to hear it. Complaining to the retailer is great because they can always cancel a false PCN from a parking firm scammer and it might make the retailer/landowners think twice when it comes to renewing the contract later, so it is a win-win situation.

Parking firms almost never own the land they infest like parasites so in cases where there is an onsite retailer, hotel, restraurant, complaining ot them is always Plan A, and should be exhausted in those first couple of weeks, before any appeal is tried.

Saw a load of people parking at Stanmer Park today. Easy to appeal and win those ones but with the first rule being DO NOT IMPLY WHO PARKED! And this year, I plan a line of attack that will hopefully get OPS stopped at Stanmer Park for good.

 

[SK1NT]

[MENTION=18265]LadySeagull[/MENTION] guided me through a successful ticket appeal. I had a very nice judge too.

Thanks [MENTION=18265]LadySeagull[/MENTION]

 

[Beagle]

Hi @LadySeagull. I know you get so many questions about this and hope that you are not fed up with them all!
I stopped for a few minutes at a shop in the loading bay, I run a mobility company and was looking for a customer that had broken down on their mobility scooter so was not really concentrating. I had only just purchased the van so a parking charge notice was sent to the previous owner who then gave my details. I received a text message stating that I owed One Parking Solutions money so I called Gladstones solicitors stating this was the first that I had heard of this. He kept repeating that they had sent letters out to which I replied I did not get them, I have not had a letter about this. So I left it and now I have a 'Claim Form' asking me to now pay £252.06. It has a court address for Northampton on it and says I have to respond or else a judgement will be made against me and then it affects my credit score. I accept I stopped in the loading bay but dispute the fact I have got any letters from them, I asked the solicitors to prove that I had received the letters and the response was that they send them to the registered keeper on DVLA database. So do I pay up or write what I have basically put on here that I did not receive any letters? Sorry for the lengthy message but wanted all the information to be there. Many thanks, Mark

 

[BlackDog]

So glad to hear it. Complaining to the retailer is great because they can always cancel a false PCN from a parking firm scammer and it might make the retailer/landowners think twice when it comes to renewing the contract later, so it is a win-win situation.

Parking firms almost never own the land they infest like parasites so in cases where there is an onsite retailer, hotel, restraurant, complaining ot them is always Plan A, and should be exhausted in those first couple of weeks, before any appeal is tried.

Saw a load of people parking at Stanmer Park today. Easy to appeal and win those ones but with the first rule being DO NOT IMPLY WHO PARKED! And this year, I plan a line of attack that will hopefully get OPS stopped at Stanmer Park for good.

Hello,

May I ask for advice? I have a £100 PCN from GXS car park having mistakenly bought from a council machine next to where my car was parked which shared the road name of the car park of the same name- a clear set up. Their machine only took cash leading people to prefer to pay from the machine which takes a card. I was on holiday and didn’t know the area.

I unsuccessfully appealed it with a threat that if I file it with a third party I lose the £40 discounted rate.

This was before reading your advice - i referred to the ticket I bought and displayed etc. so having seen rule 1 about not admitting you’re the driver have I blown any chances of fighting it already?

I’d appreciate your advice, thank you.

Sarah