Paul Reid lays into Wilkins

[ROSM]

Misrepresentation, never said that we shouldnt have limits, I am amazed we pay what we do now ,

How do you know what we pay now in all cases unless you are a club employee or told by one of the senior staff members (manager perhaps)

it is restricted however by individual peoples views rather than the constraints of some fantasy budgets !

it is restricted by the willingness of the directors to fund the costs. That is the same as with almost every football club. They trade at a loss and need to be funded

I am surprised you havent mentioned DK quote in The Argus, where he points out 'Judicious Housekeeping' today.

we dont spend what cant be covered. That is judicious

I had to laugh and I did think of you lot !!

thanks for the patronising comment.

Now if you can post nealry £3 million pound of losses and somehow congratulate yourself for being judicious, it shows what I am up against !!

Trading losses - funded by directors and some of which is part of the long term investment in our future

Of course with Falmer thankfully on the horizon, there is a real need for judicious planning and budgeting, I fully accept.

But to try and tell me we have been nothing but a financial basket case for past 10 years or so is deluded.

we have been trading at a loss and funded by directors. A basket case is when the funding isn't there

It is obvious we cannot budget for anything with any great credibility, because we have continued to lose revenue and many of our costs have increased and we simply run out of money.

really? so if we only spent our income only then the club would drop quicker than your ability to debate on fact.

So how do we pay competitive salaries and in so many respects punch above out weight ?

We go to Mr Bloom and friends cap in hand and ask for contributions and our so called budgets will consist of how much Mr Bloom feels he can afford at any given time.

it's hardly cap in hand. if he chooses to fund and support then that is good news.

So you guys can talk about budgets and wage structures till the cows come home but there arent any budgets, not in the true sense of the word anyway.

running a football club is not like running any other business - budgets and expenditure are flexible as are income and investment. This is acceptable providing you dont spend what you dont fund

No doubt in depth business plans have been given to our lenders since we left the Goldstone and originally we probably raised some cash on the strength of these.

But banks quickly lose patience, when time after time the projected income and projected profits just do not appear, they nearly become an irrelevance.

according to our accounts just how much is bank borrowing? this is a significant claim you're making so numbers would be nice

How exactly do you budget when your losing millions a year and your bank overdraft is overdrawn.

i have an overdraft - i have a mortgage. i have a fairly flexible income. I still budget

If you have the answer you should be at Nos. 11 Downing Street and not posting on here !!

alternatively they could work in commercial finance?

This aint the right thread by the way !

a thread is just that a logicial sequence of comments and discussion. if this is where we have arrived then it is the right place

 

[Easy 10]

Nice one ROSM, agree with every word.
However, I think you will find that debating this point with BigGully is like continuously thumping your head against a locked door. There are some fundamental points that BigGully will simply REFUSE to acknowledge or understand as being crucially relevent to the argument. He will lead you round and round in every decreasing circles, and you'll find you are repeating yourself ad-nauseum as though you were dealing with a child who unfortunately has chronic learning difficulties.

Some people just never "get" fractions. Some people just never "get" calculus. BigGully will never "get" the concept of budgets and wage structures.
I'd leave it there fella.

 

[NMH]

Makes me laugh, so many on here are like a dog with a bone when it comes to slagging off Naylor. The guy has got a job to do and is a massive improvement on the sycophant he replaced. Sometimes he refects the negativity of half of NSC, but as a journalist he's apparently not allowed to do that. So many posters get really precious about his questioning of the board and management.

Yeah I agree he's sometimes over the top but I don't want a local reporter who licks the board's arse and on balance I'm quite happy with his reporting. In the minority I know but some of the venom towards him is in true NSC over reaction

Ahem - all very well you saying that - but why do we need Naylor to tell us anything we don't already know, when he makes it up anyway?

I mean, any NSC poster on a given day can and does do that!

Should some random poster embroidering some weak story with invective get your support and praise just for 'not being a sycophant'?

Whatever, I ain't going to buy a paper for that, anyway.

 

[BigGully]

Misrepresentation, never said that we shouldnt have limits, I am amazed we pay what we do now ,

How do you know what we pay now in all cases unless you are a club employee or told by one of the senior staff members (manager perhaps

Who said 'in all cases' It is generally accepted some players are on £1000's rather than £100's per week, the Chairmans Hammond offer and subsequant transfer payment of £300,000 is a good indication of our competitiveness. I have never indicated that I talk to the manager, however, if I was told by the manager why would you doubt my information ?

it is restricted however by individual peoples views rather than the constraints of some fantasy budgets !

it is restricted by the willingness of the directors to fund the costs. That is the same as with almost every football club. They trade at a loss and need to be funded

You just re-wrote my comment, with different words but same meaning !!

I am surprised you havent mentioned DK quote in The Argus, where he points out 'Judicious Housekeeping' today.

we dont spend what cant be covered. That is judicious

You choose to ignore a £3 million pound loss, that is not judicious, thats why are lucky to have wealthy benefactors.

I had to laugh and I did think of you lot !!

thanks for the patronising comment.

My pleasure.

Now if you can post nealry £3 million pound of losses and somehow congratulate yourself for being judicious, it shows what I am up against !!

Trading losses - funded by directors and some of which is part of the long term investment in our future

I agree with the sentiment.

Of course with Falmer thankfully on the horizon, there is a real need for judicious planning and budgeting, I fully accept.

But to try and tell me we have been nothing but a financial basket case for past 10 years or so is deluded.

we have been trading at a loss and funded by directors. A basket case is when the funding isn't there.

The core business is a basket case, you just repeat that we have benefactors, we both accept that but wheres your budgets, other than what they wish to give ?

It is obvious we cannot budget for anything with any great credibility, because we have continued to lose revenue and many of our costs have increased and we simply run out of money.

really? so if we only spent our income only then the club would drop quicker than your ability to debate on fact.

Thanks for the patronising comment. Our income is already spent 2.8 million times over !!

So how do we pay competitive salaries and in so many respects punch above out weight ?

We go to Mr Bloom and friends cap in hand and ask for contributions and our so called budgets will consist of how much Mr Bloom feels he can afford at any given time.

it's hardly cap in hand. if he chooses to fund and support then that is good news.

Yes its good news, I have already said that, so wheres your budget and wage structures ?

So you guys can talk about budgets and wage structures till the cows come home but there arent any budgets, not in the true sense of the word anyway.

running a football club is not like running any other business - budgets and expenditure are flexible as are income and investment. This is acceptable providing you dont spend what you dont fund

Wish you were my bank manager !! It is exactly the same as any other business, if you post considerable losses year on year, you will run out of money and banks wont lend to prop up those losses, but we have Bloom as I have said, but wheres a budget ?

No doubt in depth business plans have been given to our lenders since we left the Goldstone and originally we probably raised some cash on the strength of these.

But banks quickly lose patience, when time after time the projected income and projected profits just do not appear, they nearly become an irrelevance.

according to our accounts just how much is bank borrowing? this is a significant claim you're making so numbers would be nice

I would suspect that the banks limited their exposure to BHA years ago, even threatening forclosure unless guarantors were found, my point is if we went to a bank with budgets and wage structures, they would not be relevant, they would know that the core business is bust, but if someone wants to bankroll the club fine, and if we want funding the banks will sell us money with a viable guarantor.


How exactly do you budget when your losing millions a year and your bank overdraft is overdrawn.

i have an overdraft - i have a mortgage. i have a fairly flexible income. I still budget

Get yourself loads credit cards too, then spend like a man possessed, use up your overdraft and then when you flexible income decreases, keep spending and try telling those lenders that your budgeting !!

You will be repossessed and bust before you can say 'but I budgeted honest Guv'! But then luckily Daddy will bail you out.

If you have the answer you should be at Nos. 11 Downing Street and not posting on here !!

alternatively they could work in commercial finance?

Your budgets are discredited, you would be better suited to Nos 11 Downing Street.

This aint the right thread by the way !

a thread is just that a logicial sequence of comments and discussion. if this is where we have arrived then it is the right place

There seems to be a common theme here and it is that we have benefactors and those and those alone will decide how much and when money should be spent we are all thankful, but budgets, not really !!

 

[Easy 10]

There seems to be a common theme here and it is that we have benefactors and those and those alone will decide how much and when money should be spent we are all thankful, but budgets, not really !!

:thud:

 

[Barrel of Fun]

There seems to be a common theme here and it is that we have benefactors and those and those alone will decide how much and when money should be spent we are all thankful, but budgets, not really !!

YOU CAN BUDGET AND RUN AT A DEFICIT! THE BOARD BUDGET SO THAT THEY DO NOT NEED TO BORROW ANY/MUCH FINANCE FROM THE BANK!

 

[BigGully]

Misrepresentation, never said that we shouldnt have limits, I am amazed we pay what we do now ,

How do you know what we pay now in all cases unless you are a club employee or told by one of the senior staff members (manager perhaps)

it is restricted however by individual peoples views rather than the constraints of some fantasy budgets !

it is restricted by the willingness of the directors to fund the costs. That is the same as with almost every football club. They trade at a loss and need to be funded

I am surprised you havent mentioned DK quote in The Argus, where he points out 'Judicious Housekeeping' today.

we dont spend what cant be covered. That is judicious

I had to laugh and I did think of you lot !!

thanks for the patronising comment.

Now if you can post nealry £3 million pound of losses and somehow congratulate yourself for being judicious, it shows what I am up against !!

Trading losses - funded by directors and some of which is part of the long term investment in our future

Of course with Falmer thankfully on the horizon, there is a real need for judicious planning and budgeting, I fully accept.

But to try and tell me we have been nothing but a financial basket case for past 10 years or so is deluded.

we have been trading at a loss and funded by directors. A basket case is when the funding isn't there

It is obvious we cannot budget for anything with any great credibility, because we have continued to lose revenue and many of our costs have increased and we simply run out of money.

really? so if we only spent our income only then the club would drop quicker than your ability to debate on fact.

So how do we pay competitive salaries and in so many respects punch above out weight ?

We go to Mr Bloom and friends cap in hand and ask for contributions and our so called budgets will consist of how much Mr Bloom feels he can afford at any given time.

it's hardly cap in hand. if he chooses to fund and support then that is good news.

So you guys can talk about budgets and wage structures till the cows come home but there arent any budgets, not in the true sense of the word anyway.

running a football club is not like running any other business - budgets and expenditure are flexible as are income and investment. This is acceptable providing you dont spend what you dont fund

No doubt in depth business plans have been given to our lenders since we left the Goldstone and originally we probably raised some cash on the strength of these.

But banks quickly lose patience, when time after time the projected income and projected profits just do not appear, they nearly become an irrelevance.

according to our accounts just how much is bank borrowing? this is a significant claim you're making so numbers would be nice

How exactly do you budget when your losing millions a year and your bank overdraft is overdrawn.

i have an overdraft - i have a mortgage. i have a fairly flexible income. I still budget

If you have the answer you should be at Nos. 11 Downing Street and not posting on here !!

alternatively they could work in commercial finance?

This aint the right thread by the way !

a thread is just that a logicial sequence of comments and discussion. if this is where we have arrived then it is the right place

Misrepresentation, never said that we shouldnt have limits, I am amazed we pay what we do now ,

How do you know what we pay now in all cases unless you are a club employee or told by one of the senior staff members (manager perhaps

Who said 'in all cases' It is generally accepted some players are on £1000's rather than £100's per week, the Chairmans Hammond offer and subsequant transfer payment of £300,000 is a good indication of our competitiveness. I have never indicated that I talk to the manager, however, if I was told by the manager why would you doubt my information ?

it is restricted however by individual peoples views rather than the constraints of some fantasy budgets !

it is restricted by the willingness of the directors to fund the costs. That is the same as with almost every football club. They trade at a loss and need to be funded

You just re-wrote my comment, with different words but same meaning !!

I am surprised you havent mentioned DK quote in The Argus, where he points out 'Judicious Housekeeping' today.

we dont spend what cant be covered. That is judicious

You choose to ignore a £3 million pound loss, that is not judicious, thats why are lucky to have wealthy benefactors.

I had to laugh and I did think of you lot !!

thanks for the patronising comment.

My pleasure.

Now if you can post nealry £3 million pound of losses and somehow congratulate yourself for being judicious, it shows what I am up against !!

Trading losses - funded by directors and some of which is part of the long term investment in our future

I agree with the sentiment.

Of course with Falmer thankfully on the horizon, there is a real need for judicious planning and budgeting, I fully accept.

But to try and tell me we have been nothing but a financial basket case for past 10 years or so is deluded.

we have been trading at a loss and funded by directors. A basket case is when the funding isn't there.

The core business is a basket case, you just repeat that we have benefactors, we both accept that but wheres your budgets, other than what they wish to give ?

It is obvious we cannot budget for anything with any great credibility, because we have continued to lose revenue and many of our costs have increased and we simply run out of money.

really? so if we only spent our income only then the club would drop quicker than your ability to debate on fact.

Thanks for the patronising comment. Our income is already spent 2.8 million times over !!

So how do we pay competitive salaries and in so many respects punch above out weight ?

We go to Mr Bloom and friends cap in hand and ask for contributions and our so called budgets will consist of how much Mr Bloom feels he can afford at any given time.

it's hardly cap in hand. if he chooses to fund and support then that is good news.

Yes its good news, I have already said that, so wheres your budget and wage structures ?

So you guys can talk about budgets and wage structures till the cows come home but there arent any budgets, not in the true sense of the word anyway.

running a football club is not like running any other business - budgets and expenditure are flexible as are income and investment. This is acceptable providing you dont spend what you dont fund

Wish you were my bank manager !! It is exactly the same as any other business, if you post considerable losses year on year, you will run out of money and banks wont lend to prop up those losses, but we have Bloom as I have said, but wheres a budget ?

No doubt in depth business plans have been given to our lenders since we left the Goldstone and originally we probably raised some cash on the strength of these.

But banks quickly lose patience, when time after time the projected income and projected profits just do not appear, they nearly become an irrelevance.

according to our accounts just how much is bank borrowing? this is a significant claim you're making so numbers would be nice

I would suspect that the banks limited their exposure to BHA years ago, even threatening forclosure unless guarantors were found, my point is if we went to a bank with budgets and wage structures, they would not be relevant, they would know that the core business is bust, but if someone wants to bankroll the club fine, and if we want funding the banks will sell us money with a viable guarantor.


How exactly do you budget when your losing millions a year and your bank overdraft is overdrawn.

i have an overdraft - i have a mortgage. i have a fairly flexible income. I still budget

Get yourself loads credit cards too, then spend like a man possessed, use up your overdraft and then when you flexible income decreases, keep spending and try telling those lenders that your budgeting !!

You will be repossessed and bust before you can say 'but I budgeted honest Guv'! But then luckily Daddy will bail you out.

If you have the answer you should be at Nos. 11 Downing Street and not posting on here !!

alternatively they could work in commercial finance?

Your budgets are discredited, you would be better suited to Nos 11 Downing Street.

This aint the right thread by the way !

a thread is just that a logicial sequence of comments and discussion. if this is where we have arrived then it is the right place

Very profound so I will continue.

There seems to be a common theme here and it is that we have benefactors and those and those alone will decide how much and when money should be spent we are all thankful, but budgets, not really !!

 

[BigGully]

YOU CAN BUDGET AND RUN AT A DEFICIT! THE BOARD BUDGET SO THAT THEY DO NOT NEED TO BORROW ANY/MUCH FINANCE FROM THE BANK!

The board wouldnt be able to raise finance from the banks, jeeeez what are they going to show as some sort of security.

Their Accounts hmmmm NO

Assets hmmmm NO

Withdean Stadium hmmm NO

Projected increase of revenue ( Falmer notwithstanding ) hmmmm NO

They have to rely nearly soley on Directors benevolence, and with that they make up their own budgets, depending on their own views, this isnt a normal working business format, its quite unique.

The budgets are vague and blurred and wholly funded from individuals.

I am hoping the Tony Bloom feels generous in the coming months, but I very much doubt whether he earmarked what he might spend in the coming months last year.

The wage structure is similar, if they indentify a player that they all feel excitied about they may well push the boat out if Bloom and DK wish.

They probably have a minimum figure in mind today but by next week it may well change.

This isnt budgeting its acting on the whims of individuals.

Its great and I am thankful, but it wont be taught at business school under the heading of BUDGETING.

 

[Easy 10]

They have to rely nearly soley on Directors benevolence, and with that they make up their own budgets, depending on their own views, this isnt a normal working business format, its quite unique.

Yes, I've NEVER heard of a club thats run on this basis. Other than most of them.
Theres that one in the Premiership that plays in blue, for starters.

Unique indeed.

 

[ROSM]

Misrepresentation, never said that we shouldnt have limits, I am amazed we pay what we do now ,

How do you know what we pay now in all cases unless you are a club employee or told by one of the senior staff members (manager perhaps

Who said 'in all cases' It is generally accepted some players are on £1000's rather than £100's per week, the Chairmans Hammond offer and subsequant transfer payment of £300,000 is a good indication of our competitiveness. I have never indicated that I talk to the manager, however, if I was told by the manager why would you doubt my information ?

it is restricted however by individual peoples views rather than the constraints of some fantasy budgets !

it is restricted by the willingness of the directors to fund the costs. That is the same as with almost every football club. They trade at a loss and need to be funded

You just re-wrote my comment, with different words but same meaning !!

I am surprised you havent mentioned DK quote in The Argus, where he points out 'Judicious Housekeeping' today.

we dont spend what cant be covered. That is judicious

You choose to ignore a £3 million pound loss, that is not judicious, thats why are lucky to have wealthy benefactors.

I had to laugh and I did think of you lot !!

thanks for the patronising comment.

My pleasure.

Now if you can post nealry £3 million pound of losses and somehow congratulate yourself for being judicious, it shows what I am up against !!

Trading losses - funded by directors and some of which is part of the long term investment in our future

I agree with the sentiment.

Of course with Falmer thankfully on the horizon, there is a real need for judicious planning and budgeting, I fully accept.

But to try and tell me we have been nothing but a financial basket case for past 10 years or so is deluded.

we have been trading at a loss and funded by directors. A basket case is when the funding isn't there.

The core business is a basket case, you just repeat that we have benefactors, we both accept that but wheres your budgets, other than what they wish to give ?

It is obvious we cannot budget for anything with any great credibility, because we have continued to lose revenue and many of our costs have increased and we simply run out of money.

really? so if we only spent our income only then the club would drop quicker than your ability to debate on fact.

Thanks for the patronising comment. Our income is already spent 2.8 million times over !!

So how do we pay competitive salaries and in so many respects punch above out weight ?

We go to Mr Bloom and friends cap in hand and ask for contributions and our so called budgets will consist of how much Mr Bloom feels he can afford at any given time.

it's hardly cap in hand. if he chooses to fund and support then that is good news.

Yes its good news, I have already said that, so wheres your budget and wage structures ?

So you guys can talk about budgets and wage structures till the cows come home but there arent any budgets, not in the true sense of the word anyway.

running a football club is not like running any other business - budgets and expenditure are flexible as are income and investment. This is acceptable providing you dont spend what you dont fund

Wish you were my bank manager !! It is exactly the same as any other business, if you post considerable losses year on year, you will run out of money and banks wont lend to prop up those losses, but we have Bloom as I have said, but wheres a budget ?

No doubt in depth business plans have been given to our lenders since we left the Goldstone and originally we probably raised some cash on the strength of these.

But banks quickly lose patience, when time after time the projected income and projected profits just do not appear, they nearly become an irrelevance.

according to our accounts just how much is bank borrowing? this is a significant claim you're making so numbers would be nice

I would suspect that the banks limited their exposure to BHA years ago, even threatening forclosure unless guarantors were found, my point is if we went to a bank with budgets and wage structures, they would not be relevant, they would know that the core business is bust, but if someone wants to bankroll the club fine, and if we want funding the banks will sell us money with a viable guarantor.


How exactly do you budget when your losing millions a year and your bank overdraft is overdrawn.

i have an overdraft - i have a mortgage. i have a fairly flexible income. I still budget

Get yourself loads credit cards too, then spend like a man possessed, use up your overdraft and then when you flexible income decreases, keep spending and try telling those lenders that your budgeting !!

You will be repossessed and bust before you can say 'but I budgeted honest Guv'! But then luckily Daddy will bail you out.

If you have the answer you should be at Nos. 11 Downing Street and not posting on here !!

alternatively they could work in commercial finance?

Your budgets are discredited, you would be better suited to Nos 11 Downing Street.

This aint the right thread by the way !

a thread is just that a logicial sequence of comments and discussion. if this is where we have arrived then it is the right place

Very profound so I will continue.

There seems to be a common theme here and it is that we have benefactors and those and those alone will decide how much and when money should be spent we are all thankful, but budgets, not really !!

You seem to think you've stumbled on a major wrongdoing. You havn't - you've stumbled on how the vast majority of football clubs operate. Your snide comments about daddy bailing out are a sign that you cannot debate on ANY level. Typical politician? You are no financial genius and you fail to understand the meaning of the words we use.

The facts are the fans want a successful club. The board fund a relatively successful club. They have budgets - they sometimes increase them. It's done only when funding is available.

The rub is Wilkins does not an cannot control the playing budget. That's what irks you (and maybe him) but the savage issue and the reaction I believe him to have had due to your postings lead me to reaffirm my view he is clearly best NOT having control

 

[BigGully]

They have budgets - they sometimes increase them. It's done only when funding is available.

Maybe they decrease them too, then maybe they stick to them but may also increase them .... and you call that a budget ... utter balderdash.

The budget is as I have always said down to the whims of board members, nothing else.

The rub is Wilkins does not an cannot control the playing budget. That's what irks you (and maybe him) but the savage issue and the reaction I believe him to have had due to your postings lead me to reaffirm my view he is clearly best NOT having control.

What do you find so strange about the board agreeing the sums and then allowing the manager to spend the available money on the players he thinks will benefit his team ?

Who pricisely do you want to to spend the playing 'budget' ?

 

[BigGully]

Yes, I've NEVER heard of a club thats run on this basis. Other than most of them.
Theres that one in the Premiership that plays in blue, for starters.

Unique indeed.

It seems you have changed your position on how the clubs 'budgets' work.

Your stance used to be the club were 'balancing books', 'budgets' and had a 'sustainable wage structure' until we posted a £2.8 million pound loss !

Mine has always been that we are an autocratic club just like the team in blue you allude to.

Many footballing decisions are made solely by DK backed by money from Tony Bloom.

That might be a necessary evil today, but I fear it will adversly effect future progress.

 

[andybaha]

He who laughs last ... and all that!!

 

[e77]

Dragging things kicking and screaming back to the thread subject, it is a pity Reidy has injury problems and perhaps we can excuse him a little rant the day he lost his job.