Paul Barber's programme article about standing

[The Grockle]

This is why if there was an area in the North where standing was tolerated and in the rest of the stadium it was enforced, it would end situations like the one you describe.

Safe standing area would end this argument for good.

Agreed, a safe standing area for the north and south and absolute zero tolerance elsewhere IMO to appease all fans.

Back to my point about lobbying on the issue, if more people wrote to the FA, their clubs and more importantly their local MP’s something would get done. As we saw at local level with our stadium local Mp’s will support if they feel they could lose votes, nationally, if a quarter of a million or so people pledged their support politicians would listen they’d have to.

 

[RyFish]

It just doesn't work like that does it. I don't know why? Look at every single stadium in Europe, the noise comes from the area that stands.

But correlation does not imply causation. The reason is far more likely to be that those who are more likely to stand are also more likely to sing. One does not beget the other.

 

[The Grockle]

Fully agree with this - it is not the rules in themselves but the disrespect shown to fellow fans who are not able to jump up and down every five minutes and miss the most exciting parts of the game. I am not talking about the North Stand but other parts of the ground where this happens on a regular basis.

Indeed, football is more inclusive these days, enjoyed by more families, disabled and elderly people, fans need to be more respectful to fellow supporters and clubs need to be more accommodating to the different ways people wish to enjoy a match. Clubs a quick to accommodate the corporate side and so called prawn sarnie brigade but the traditional spectator who wishes to stand at a more affordable price seems to be overlooked

 

[Superphil]

I wonder what would happen if the noise coming from the north stopped?
If for a few games the North did a sort of singing strike. All just sat down and didn't sing, I wonder if that would change people's minds about letting them stand. Then I bet barber wouldn't enforce the sitting anymore.

Seriously, the North Stand is possibly not as loud as you think it is. Please take this as constructive when I write this, I sit a little closer to the north than the south, in the WSM (1901 tier) so in a good position to make these observations.

This is not a slag off to the North Stand, I promise, it isn't, but I really don't think that the North Stand all sitting down and not singing would ruin the atmosphere at the Amex, I think you would be quite suprised at how much noice comes from the rest of the ground.

Much as it pains me, most away fans with a decent following, have been louder than the North Stand. Palace were comprehensively louder than the North Stand were at any time on Sunday when they were on song. Chelsea, pre-season, in the WSU, were by far the loudest anyone has been at the Amex*. Parts of the North are superb, but by no means is it the whole stand. Get the rest of the stand to join in, because at the moment you're just not all singing at the same time. When the WSU joins in, and the East, then of course it is a superb atmosphere, and hardly any of the West, or East are standing up.

* please note, these are my observations, from where I sit, WSM (1901 tier), towards the north, halfway between the centre line and the penalty D. As so many of you are fond of saying, we sit in silence with our prawn sandwiches, so I can judge the volume coming from the various stands quite easily.

(BTW, we are not that quiet, I still have a raw voice from Sunday).

 

[birthofanorange]

But why not sing AND sit down at the same time? Multitask.

It seems to me an almost 'tribal' type of mentality - which is a good thing when it comes to adding the undoubted '12th man effect' during a match. Think of the Battle of Rorke's drift...would hardly have been as intimidating if the Zulus had all been sitting down munching on an antelope and cucumber sandwich, if you get my, er, drift.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Is that true? Excellent news! We're winning! If they don't want people to stop being stewards then tell the stewards to stop telling people to sit down, then they won't get abused!

You do realise there is a minimum number of stewards required to allow a match to go ahead don't you ? If that isn't hit then the match can't be played. On at least two occasions at Withdean the club came within one steward of having to have the match called off.

 

[Ninja Elephant]

I read that article and thought he was absolutely spot on in the tone and content of what he was saying. He wasn't expressing his opinions on standing, they're irrelevant. All opinions on standing at football grounds are completely irrelevant because there is a law in place which states you can not stand at an all seater stadium. It is as clear as that.

Personally, I deffinitely think both the North and the South stands should be safe standing. The safe standing campaign should ultimately be successful and I would love the Amex to be one of the first to re-introduce standing at a league ground. There is clearly a demand for it, and the time has come for it to be reintroduced. I don't want to stand at football matches, I like sitting down and I like having a view alongside the pitch so I'm not affected at all by this campaign and this movement. But I deffinitely support it and believe it is time for fans to have the option to stand legally and without the need for confrontation with stewards.

 

[Captain Sensible]

[MENTION=268]Superphil[/MENTION] Fair enough, but sometimes when there is a lull in the atmos, the North keeps it ticking along until the rest of the ground starts singing. When the west is in full voice it blasts everything away, including noisey away fans.

Anyway for an end to this argument, see Trigaar's post. If Barber were to adopt this it would solve all the problems.

 

[Herne Hill Seagull]

Back to my point about lobbying on the issue, if more people wrote to the FA, their clubs and more importantly their local MP’s something would get done. As we saw at local level with our stadium local Mp’s will support if they feel they could lose votes, nationally, if a quarter of a million or so people pledged their support politicians would listen they’d have to.

Spot on. I'm already involved. Anybody can be.

 

[withdeanwombat]

Is there a legal requirement to sit in all seated stadia?

If yes,surely people who come to games should know this,and that they are legally required to sit or face any consequences.

If no,then some of the sensible suggestions posted by standers for standers should be instated.

As an ex north stand terracer who loved that whole experience I'd...um...stand by any decision to allow folk who want to to stand in allocated areas.

It's just that,as someone who can no longer stand for games,and having paid for a seat,I'd rather like to sit in it and watch the game unimpeded.

That's just not a lot to ask.

And I agree that the North Stand at the Amex is not as loud as it seems to think it is.Perhaps energy is sapped by standing up for too long.

 

[birthofanorange]

Much as it pains me, most away fans with a decent following, have been louder than the North Stand. Palace were comprehensively louder than the North Stand were at any time on Sunday when they were on song.

Thing is.....were they sitting or standing?

 

[Herne Hill Seagull]

Is there a legal requirement to sit in all seated stadia?


http://fsf.org.uk/assets/Uploads/Legalities-of-standing.pdf

 

[Captain Sensible]

Is there a legal requirement to sit in all seated stadia?

If yes,surely people who come to games should know this,and that they are legally required to sit or face any consequences.

If no,then some of the sensible suggestions posted by standers for standers should be instated.

As an ex north stand terracer who loved that whole experience I'd...um...stand by any decision to allow folk who want to to stand in allocated areas.

It's just that,as someone who can no longer stand for games,and having paid for a seat,I'd rather like to sit in it and watch the game unimpeded.

That's just not a lot to ask.

And I agree that the North Stand at the Amex is not as loud as it seems to think it is.Perhaps energy is sapped by standing up for too long.

It was consistantly the area of the ground that sang contstantly and were pretty lound, the west got louder when fans in the upper stood up to sing. The North starts off alot of songs. So while they might not always be the loudest, they are generating the atmosphere. Now Sunday was a bit special but the West and East and SW havent sung like that since the Sheff Weds game back in October.
The issue is that to solve the problem the club needs to select an area that is tolerated standing.

 

[Bozza]

there is a law in place which states you can not stand at an all seater stadium. It is as clear as that.

No, no there isn't.

That is probably the biggest myth that is continually perpetuated about standing at football.

The Department for Culture, Media and Sport: "At no point has it been argued that the individual spectator commits a criminal offence by standing in a seated area"

It is only law the clubs (in the top 2 divisions) must supply a seat for all spectators. The law does not state that fans have to sit on them.

 

[chrissyboy01]

This whole dispute could have easily been avoided if the club had never stated when originally selling season tickets for the Amex we will turn a blind eye to people standing in the last 4 rows of the North Stand which they should never have done.

is the correct answer

 

[somerset]

Thing is.....were they sitting or standing?

Good question,.... we know the answer, they were all standing as usual, and the stewards did nothing to stop it.

 

[Brovion]

You do realise there is a minimum number of stewards required to allow a match to go ahead don't you ? If that isn't hit then the match can't be played. On at least two occasions at Withdean the club came within one steward of having to have the match called off.

I'm well aware of that. As you may have gathered by my two comments I'm heartily sick of this whole debate and can't be arsed to type anything sensible. Personally I stand when I can (only in the North at the Amex), and I don't give a flying sh1t about stewards or ground regulations, and I don't care how other people interpret that attitude - although I certainly don't consider myself to be a troublemaker. The whole thing is a shambolic mess with the rules being a grey area (what is 'persistent standing'?), being unevenly applied (large away followings allowed to stand unmolested), and, despite all the huff and puff, no punishment is EVER dished out to a home club in all the years the regulations have been in force. (Away fans sometimes have allocations cut but that's it.)

We need to move this along and reach a situation either where standing is tolerated (by safe standing or otherwise) or the no-standing regulation is strictly 100% enforced. A match being called of because there aren't enough stewards (because they've resigned due to abuse from standers) might be a useful step on that road. Personally I'd like to see the Authorities grow a pair and threaten to close a Stand somewhere in the country for a season and see what effect that has. The current situation satisfies nobody and just leads to thread after thread like this.

 

[somerset]

No, no there isn't.

That is probably the biggest myth that is continually perpetuated about standing at football.

The Department for Culture, Media and Sport: "At no point has it been argued that the individual spectator commits a criminal offence by standing in a seated area"

It is only law the clubs (in the top 2 divisions) must supply a seat for all spectators. The law does not state that fans have to sit on them.

So does the enforcement, via the safety certificates, actually just emerge from a local H&S assessment then?

 

[Triggaaar]

All opinions on standing at football grounds are completely irrelevant because there is a law in place which states you can not stand at an all seater stadium. It is as clear as that.

Not according to this:

Is there a legal requirement to sit in all seated stadia?


http://fsf.org.uk/assets/Uploads/Legalities-of-standing.pdf

 

[LamieRobertson]

How long did we wait for this stadium?All seems a bit daft to me ..maybe when club gets the ok for the full 30500 thy wont be so bothered and maybe some of the north stand peeps won't abuse the stewards (shrug)

Seems this has all been debated before