Paul Barber speaks out on bus price increase etc

[Brighton Breezy]

And some people who live in Worthing, Haywards Heath are still going to get it for their travel subsidy, but someone who live as little as two miles away will pay an extra £76 on top.

Indeed. Definite unfairness to it all now.

People can say, "We'll, use he free regular bus instead. So what if it takes a longer etc," but presumably the natural continuation of that's would be to say, "why not scrap all the free bus transport and park and ride, after all, you can use the free train travel."

 

[AZ Gull]

All very true but the losses clubs incur normally come from buying players rather than day to day costs even including wages. Spend £2M on 3 players and you will make a loss if you are not generating the money to buy them. All the clubs we seem to be slagging off ran into difficulty trying to buy their way up the league. The question is did /do our £8M losses come from transfers or running costs - If its transfers/wages then its a bit unfair to expect fans to stump up extra but its even worse if you veil it in transport, staff redundancies and ticketing charges.

If the £8M loss is from day to day running costs then I doubt we will hit target this season and TB will have to put more money in because its not going to come down by £5M unless we sell 2-3 players

And the parachute payments get eaten up by paying off the premiership players and their wages while they adjust so its hardly an advantage to them over us

Initially you are claiming that transfer fees are the main source of losses; then you claim that relegated clubs eat up their parachute payments (16 million this season alone for the clubs relegated in May) on wages. One contradicts the other.

To put it in perspective, that 16 million payment is greater than Albion's ENTIRE staff costs in 2011-12 (including all staff, not just players).

In Albion's case, we have NOT spent a lot of money on transfer fees, but it is something of a red herring to try to separate transfer fees and wages; when all is said and done, a cost is a cost, no matter how exactly it is incurred.

 

[Gwylan]

So is having the 14th playing budget good or bad?

I'd say it was good too. Seems like the club has some grip on reality and I think the extra charges for buses is another good idea. I'd like to see the club gradually cut back on transport subsidy (which, I gather, wasn't one of the conditions of planning permission) and like to see them stop paying for parking permits in Coldean and Moulsecoomb. Those alone would save over a million quid a year.

I do agree with people who say that other clubs don't seem bothered about FFP - our losses are light compared to some other clubs - and yet there's not the mass clearout that you'd expect.

 

[amexee]

They were not getting something for nothing. They were getting something for the travel subsidy cost of season ticket.

They were getting an additional service for nothing, they could still use the travel subsidy on the normal routes as as everyone else can.

 

[El Turi]

Who decided parachute payments were a good idea? They seem to be contrary to the FFP concept and appear to reward relegated teams for failure.

 

[fosters headband]

They were getting an additional service for nothing, they could still use the travel subsidy on the normal routes as as everyone else can.

How many more times, you try dragging a couple of kids around Brighton, say late at night after an evening game.
And have the club ensured that if everyone does use this alternative, the Bus company and trains have the extra capacity?
Where have the club told us that if we take the normal routes, will not be standing there for hours waiting for buses and trains that won't come?

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

TB subsidises each seat sold at the Amex by £15 a match.

And loss making Starbucks subsidise my coffee?

 

[Brighton Breezy]

They were getting an additional service for nothing, they could still use the travel subsidy on the normal routes as as everyone else can.

A continuation of that would be to say, "Cancel the free bus travel within Brighton etc on local buses. After all, those people who use it could just get the train..."

 

[APACHE]

Barber makes 1 comment which seems to backup what I posted on another thread, the costs of running the stadium were setup too high to start with, this is why he was brought in, to get it under control. If he doesn't, you can guess the rest, so really it boils down to, you pays your money or chose not to.

 

[timseagull]

I stopped buying programmes last season when they went from £3.00 to £3.50. With no s bus, we will now have to get the 1 from mile oak to town and then the train, and if time allows have a pint at the station rather then the ground. With the increase in season ticket prices was already planning on spending less at the ground to make up for it. As others have pointed out, we all have limited money to pursue a hobby. How much longer can we sustain it? All the time the ground is full and matches sold out the club will do as they like. Good old supply and demand. Will the club respond if we see swathes of empty seats?

 

[KNC]

The good news is that Barber doesn't seem to hang around in any job for very long.[/QUOTE]

This. Normally 2 or 3 years

 

[fosters headband]

Barber makes 1 comment which seems to backup what I posted on another thread, the costs of running the stadium were setup too high to start with, this is why he was brought in, to get it under control. If he doesn't, you can guess the rest, so really it boils down to, you pays your money or chose not to.

Yep totally agree so lets all pay the money , If it costs me a further £76 pounds to get to the game lets make it the same for those from Worthing, Haywards Heath or even those from the centre of Brighton. Perhaps then it would only be £35 per head extra and everybody could make that choice not just a percentage.

 

[AZ Gull]

I agree. We MUST Be horribly mis-managed and inefficient for this to really be the case. Also I suspect many teams are putting the same amount of effort that we are putting into complying with FFP into getting round FFP.

Are every other championship club going as nuts as we are over FFP?

I can only assume that they don't have the poorly thought out operating cost model that we do,....despite them having higher playing budgets and lower crowds than us.

These figures (all losses) relate to the 2011-12 season, when Albion's loss was 9.3 million:-

Championship:-
Ipswich - 16 million
M'boro - 13.5 million
Leeds - 3.3 million

Premier League:-
QPR - 23 million
Bolton - 22 million

League One:-
Charlton - 7.5 million
Sheff Wed - 5 million

I think it is worth re-iterating something that Barber has continually pointed out; because of our residence in the lower leagues, and occupancy of Withdean, our corporate/commercial/sponsorship deals would have been significantly lower than most (if not all) of our Championship rivals. It is only now that those contracts will have been replaced with comparable deals. Also, it is clear that the operating costs in the first year at the Amex were out of control (and, I suspect, the primary reason Ken Brown was replaced and Barber was brought in). So, yes, our loss was partially due to mis-management; and yes, our operating model is being re-thought (hence 10% staff redundancies at the club).

 

[supaseagull]

Who decided parachute payments were a good idea? They seem to be contrary to the FFP concept and appear to reward relegated teams for failure.

Don't criticise it...we will need it one day!

 

[supaseagull]

I stopped buying programmes last season when they went from £3.00 to £3.50. With no s bus, we will now have to get the 1 from mile oak to town and then the train, and if time allows have a pint at the station rather then the ground. With the increase in season ticket prices was already planning on spending less at the ground to make up for it. As others have pointed out, we all have limited money to pursue a hobby. How much longer can we sustain it? All the time the ground is full and matches sold out the club will do as they like. Good old supply and demand. Will the club respond if we see swathes of empty seats?

There will still be an S bus, we will just have to pay an additional levy for it.

 

[El Presidente]

Paul Barber is transparent when it suits him, and opaque when it also suits him.

If he expects fans to pay extra for travel, then it is surely right and proper that the figures for transport costs are disclosed.

I appreciate that he does not want to reveal too much information to competitors, and that is why the Albion tend to be cagey in relation to transfer fees, but this issue is separate, and given the circumstances and the amount of resentment it has generated a complete reveal is necessary.

 

[Creaky]

I stopped buying programmes last season when they went from £3.00 to £3.50. With no s bus, we will now have to get the 1 from mile oak to town and then the train, and if time allows have a pint at the station rather then the ground. With the increase in season ticket prices was already planning on spending less at the ground to make up for it. As others have pointed out, we all have limited money to pursue a hobby. How much longer can we sustain it? All the time the ground is full and matches sold out the club will do as they like. Good old supply and demand. Will the club respond if we see swathes of empty seats?

Supply and demand is very much the major factor as far as I see it - with regards to attendances we must be just on the cusp, (ticket sales are high but only on occasion are there sellouts), and any adverse changes with regards to costs or convenience of attending can only reduce this demand.

With regards to product sales then only the club can really judge the effect on profit of any change in the price.

One area of the clubs income where demand substantially outstrips supply is 1901 membership.

 

[El Presidente]

And loss making Starbucks subsidise my coffee?

Starbucks does not make losses. It reported a profit of $2 billion in the last financial year, so I have no idea what point you are trying to make.

 

[Bwian]

Well stick on a further £76 on all season tickets then at least that would be fair.

Not for those of us who have to drive in and pay to park at The Uni it isn't.

People are living in a dream world if they thought the club could afford to pay for special bus services from outlying places. Back in the 'old days' at the Goldstone, you got to the ground yourself. Yes, there were Football Special buses but you still had to pay the going rate for the journey. If you use public transport to get to and from The Amex please expect to pay something or everything for that service. The system in place is so simple-show your ST to get on a bus or train. Go back to paying for travel and the added time of everybody handing over cash on buses and buying train tickets will be chaotic and add so much time to journeys.

If you pay to park at the Uni or Bridge car parks, the travel portion of a season ticket was refunded-rightly so. If people are now paying (or will be expected to pay for special buses), again rightly so, then surely the transport subsidy portion of a ST cost can be claimed back?

I hope that this year's arrangements remain the same as last year for those of us paying to park.

 

[Dave the OAP]

To be fair, what is there that you would rather see money being spent upon?

Although I agree that I'd rather have to pay out less money, if the money I'm paying is going to a good set of players on the field then I can at least agree with the idea of why it's being spent.

After all it's not like there aren't any cheaper players out there; there are loads. Just none that we want. Unless the entire market changes we're going to have to accept that the prices out there are what we need to pay if we want the talent, and equally accept that a good chunk of that money will be coming directly from us fans.

To a certain degree this! One of the problems we have , which we are not unique in this is how we are expecting the season to go.

There is a great expectation that due to the success under gus and the players he brought in that got us to 4th, this season will be better and will see us at the top of the division or automatic promotion at the very least. The trouble is we are not the same team with Lopez, Hammond and bridge having departed who were some of the big hitters in the team. We are expecting an untried manager in English football to continue our success on what it appears will be a weakened squad, although mr spin says the budget is the same ( one of the gripes gus had I recall).

So me being a little ray of sunshine here, what the club are banking on is success on the pitch so that they can pass on the losses of the club to the customers, ie us, be it in transport changes, season ticket hikes, slashing and burning non playing staff, etc etc. where the problem for this strategy is the loss of goodwill of the customers, which we are seeing cracks appearing and also relying on success on the pitch, which we all know is not a good strategy.

There are buzz words in industry " realigning expectations", and I personally think this needs to be done if FFP is going to hit us so very hard!