[Misc] Party wall question.

[Herr Tubthumper]

A party wall you say? In Berlin? What could possibly go wrong with that arrangement?

It’s in Hove, actually

 

[Weststander]

Don't sign anything unless the neighbour pays for a surveyor who deals with Party Wall issues.

In fact, you'd be crazy just to sign the agreement without one.

Is it OK that it would be their surveyor, or should people appoint their own independent surveyor?

 

[chimneys]

Is it OK that it would be their surveyor, or should people appoint their own independent surveyor?

Its your choice (as the affected neighbour). You can definitely have your own, or you can agree that they use yours too, or even vice versa, if you are relatively relaxed that its a modest job. Its all paid for by the party wanting to do the works.

Any Party Wall Act surveyor should be RICS qualified and therefore have PI insurance and be bound by the rules of the RICS on impartiality/professionalism. You can therefore sue, and report them to the RICS, if a mistake is made.

If it was a reasonably small job, and I was the affected neighbour, I wouldn't blink at letting the party wanting to do the works use my surveyor, as it will cut down on the cost to the other party.

Some people, perhaps bitter about having lost the planning permission battle or as a chance for payback for an earlier neighbour dispute, might seek to be difficult on this issue by insisting they have their own surveyor to ramp up costs, even on a small Party Wall matter. Each to their own.

 

[gazingdown]

Firstly, why are you refusing consent? i.e. what is your dispute? I assume they have supplied you with details of the works (some/most of this will be on your council planning portal)? Bear in mind this is NOT planning permission, that has already, presumably, been done.

Regardless, once you reject (has to be rejected within 2 weeks) there are two options:
1. agree between you a surveyor (paid by neighbour)
2. if you can't agree a surveyor, then YOU pay for YOUR surveyor.

Ultimately, if all plans were done properly, and award is most likely given anyway. Once awarded, you even have to allow access should their builders need it. In fact they have a legal right to do so under the act.

Also, consider neighbour relations, unless you have good reason to reject/dispute, you may risk creating ill feeling (bear in mind YOU may want to do building works in future) as all you've done it cost them more money and pushed the can down the road.

more info:
https://www.gov.uk/party-walls-building-works/reaching-agreement-with-neighbours

 

[Bold Seagull]

A neighbour has just approached me with details of a small extension he plans to build and a party wall legal document he wants me to sign, as the extension involves the shared wall. What am I supposed to do here? Get a structural engineer to look at the plans, a lawyer for the legal document?

From my lay perspective it all looks fine; am I over dramatizing things as it’s only a party wall.

A lot of interesting advice regarding the Party Wall Act 1996 that you can find here on the .gov website.

The booklet is straightforward and the government put forward sample letters because this can be done through neighbours agreeing rather than the building owner to employ an additional consultant.

 

[RandyWanger]

Make sure they have party wall insurance.

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

We are going through this from the other side at the moment - it is us having the work done - should have been starting today but isn't for obvious reasons!!!

Our architect explained to us the party wall stuff, and we had to do it even though the work does not change the wall bit - we are replacing a conservatory with something more permanent, and the line of the new structure will be slightly closer to the boundary than it was before, leaving about a foot between our wall and the neighbour's conservatory, rather than the current 2 foot gap. The architect said to us that the party-wall letter might look intimidating and OTT of it comes out of the blue, so that we should warn them about it. This we have had to do twice, because the people who signed it first off then moved, before the work started, so we had to do it with the new owner - I believe it does have to be with the owner rather than any tenant, if it is a let property.

The first neighbour suggested/asked for a condition survey before the work was started, which we were happy to agree to. We have suggested this to and will do it for the new neighbour, so that basically if the work we are having done damages his property at all (through the digging of foundations, for example,) we will pay to have it rectified, and obviously we will also pay for the before and after surveys as well.

Unless you've got a nasty, shifty, devious neighbour it should all be straightforward. We actively want to do the condition survey so that we know where we stand. The last thing we would want would be for the neighbour to complain about damage and us doubt that it wasn't there before.

Hope this helps.

 

[Bold Seagull]

Its your choice (as the affected neighbour). You can definitely have your own, or you can agree that they use yours too, or even vice versa, if you are relatively relaxed that its a modest job. Its all paid for by the party wanting to do the works.

Any Party Wall Act surveyor should be RICS qualified and therefore have PI insurance and be bound by the rules of the RICS on impartiality/professionalism. You can therefore sue, and report them to the RICS, if a mistake is made.

If it was a reasonably small job, and I was the affected neighbour, I wouldn't blink at letting the party wanting to do the works use my surveyor, as it will cut down on the cost to the other party.

Some people, perhaps bitter about having lost the planning permission battle or as a chance for payback for an earlier neighbour dispute, might seek to be difficult on this issue by insisting they have their own surveyor to ramp up costs, even on a small Party Wall matter. Each to their own.

Firstly, why are you refusing consent? i.e. what is your dispute? I assume they have supplied you with details of the works (some/most of this will be on your council planning portal)? Bear in mind this is NOT planning permission, that has already, presumably, been done.

Regardless, once you reject (has to be rejected within 2 weeks) there are two options:
1. agree between you a surveyor (paid by neighbour)
2. if you can't agree a surveyor, then YOU pay for YOUR surveyor.

Ultimately, if all plans were done properly, and award is most likely given anyway. Once awarded, you even have to allow access should their builders need it. In fact they have a legal right to do so under the act.

Also, consider neighbour relations, unless you have good reason to reject/dispute, you may risk creating ill feeling (bear in mind YOU may want to do building works in future) as all you've done it cost them more money and pushed the can down the road.

more info:
https://www.gov.uk/party-walls-building-works/reaching-agreement-with-neighbours

The adjoining owner doesn't need to pay for any of the surveyors. All the costs of Party Wall Surveyors is borne by the Building Owner undertaking the works. If can be very expensive for the Building Owner if the adjoining neighbour does dispute the award.

 

[gazingdown]

Seems that may be true, my mistake. I think it gets more complicated if the award (once given) is then disputed again.

Regardless, to the OP, what is the dispute? Under the act (regardless of whether agreed without or with surveyors), they have to repair damage caused by building works. Take load of pics - this will protect BOTH of you.

Maybe worth noting that if there is any fault to the party wall not caused by building works, you both have joint responsibility to sort.

Ultimately, if you can keep it as amicable as possible, the better. You have to live next to your neighbours in the long term, we don't!

 

[MisterE]

A neighbour has just approached me with details of a small extension he plans to build and a party wall legal document he wants me to sign, as the extension involves the shared wall. What am I supposed to do here? Get a structural engineer to look at the plans, a lawyer for the legal document?

From my lay perspective it all looks fine; am I over dramatizing things as it’s only a party wall.

If its a party wall agreement then this has to do with the footings of the new extension
Basically - if you draw an imaginary line 45 degrees from your footings towards the neighbours. If the new footings were to cut this line then you need a party wall agreement. This is to cover that, theoretically, it could weaken your building on that side. Attached to the agreement there should be photos taken inside and outside of your house of any cracks etc, however small. This is so that you cannot then claim that a crack was caused by the new footings. There are firms that specialise in producing an agreement - not over expensive - but should be paid for by the person whose having the building work done. Seek advice

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Thanks everyone, much appreciated. From the comments I’ll do two things.

1) Write to the neighbour and tell him I have no issue in principle.
2) Talk to a surveyor.

 

[Bold Seagull]

Thanks everyone, much appreciated. From the comments I’ll do two things.

1) Write to the neighbour and tell him I have no issue in principle.
2) Talk to a surveyor.

Philip Hall in Hove does a lot of the Party Wall stuff I work on.

He's very helpful. http://www.philiphallassociates.com/

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Philip Hall in Hove does a lot of the Party Wall stuff I work on.

He's very helpful. http://www.philiphallassociates.com/

Nice one, that’s not too far from my house actually.

 

[warmleyseagull]

Thanks everyone, much appreciated. From the comments I’ll do two things.

1) Write to the neighbour and tell him I have no issue in principle.
2) Talk to a surveyor.

Apologies if I have come late to this and telling you something you already know but we recently built an orangery one of whose walls is PW with next door pub.

Our architect found us a specialist PW surveyor. His (not your neighbour's) job is to draft the agreement , take photos as schedule of condition on both sides, and to act for both parties if you agree. It is up to your neighbour to appoint a PW surveyor and to pay the costs for both of you (ours cost £750+VAT). You should do nothing except advise your neighbour of this and get at least a verbal undertaking that one will be appointed that he pays for. I fancy the neighbour is trying to do this on the cheap. Certainly don't pay anything yourself.

Our experience was awful - far more complicated than Planning permission and listed building consent, that we thought would be the problem. The brewery landlords were very on high horse, unhelpful almost to the point of being obstructive. We eventually got there but it took nearly 4 months, far longer than it should have.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Apologies if I have come late to this and telling you something you already know but we recently built an orangery one of whose walls is PW with next door pub.

Our architect found us a specialist PW surveyor. His (not your neighbour's) job is to draft the agreement , take photos as schedule of condition on both sides, and to act for both parties if you agree. It is up to your neighbour to appoint a PW surveyor and to pay the costs for both of you (ours cost £750+VAT). You should do nothing except advise your neighbour of this and get at least a verbal undertaking that one will be appointed that he pays for. I fancy the neighbour is trying to do this on the cheap. Certainly don't pay anything yourself.

Our experience was awful - far more complicated than Planning permission and listed building consent, that we thought would be the problem. The brewery landlords were very on high horse, unhelpful almost to the point of being obstructive. We eventually got there but it took nearly 4 months, far longer than it should have.

Thanks for this. Useful info.

 

[Bold Seagull]

Apologies if I have come late to this and telling you something you already know but we recently built an orangery one of whose walls is PW with next door pub.

Our architect found us a specialist PW surveyor. His (not your neighbour's) job is to draft the agreement , take photos as schedule of condition on both sides, and to act for both parties if you agree. It is up to your neighbour to appoint a PW surveyor and to pay the costs for both of you (ours cost £750+VAT). You should do nothing except advise your neighbour of this and get at least a verbal undertaking that one will be appointed that he pays for. I fancy the neighbour is trying to do this on the cheap. Certainly don't pay anything yourself.

Our experience was awful - far more complicated than Planning permission and listed building consent, that we thought would be the problem. The brewery landlords were very on high horse, unhelpful almost to the point of being obstructive. We eventually got there but it took nearly 4 months, far longer than it should have.

Bit unfair to say neighbour is doing it on the cheap, even the government guidance gives you sample letters so you can do it yourself and form an agreement with your neighbour. The fact the neighbour has notified HT suggests they’re doing it properly - you’d be surprised how many go ahead without even serving a PW notice.

As you experienced the legislation is a cumbersome act that allows obstruction for the sake of it, and enables surveyors to charge the person doing the work hefty sums in regard to an Act that doesn’t even have any power of enforcement. Much of what people think the act covers isn’t in the legislation. It’s really just a device to get 2 adjoining owners talking and agreeing prior to works. Some people see it as a chance to stop works, but it simply isn’t there for that.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Neighbour (who I have never met) was nice as pie in all previous communications about his building work. Now he’s complaining I’m delaying things. He also mentioned that due to the lock-down the surveyors will not be able to do their work and this further delays his whole project for months.

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

Neighbour (who I have never met) was nice as pie in all previous communications about his building work. Now he’s complaining I’m delaying things. He also mentioned that due to the lock-down the surveyors will not be able to do their work and this further delays his whole project for months.

Don't fall for it.

It needs to be done properly with a surveyor involved.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Don't fall for it.

It needs to be done properly with a surveyor involved.

I agree. I spoke with a surveyor today. I’m disappointed with the neighbour’s attitude to be honest; he was expecting me to sign his form without question by return. Oh well.

 

[Wrong-Direction]

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