[Help] Parking fine advice required

[beorhthelm]

have you sued for the £1.20 over charged yet?

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Whatever you get paid, work it out as an hourly rate and apply it to the time you spend, and have spent, dealing with this. If that "cost" outweighs the fine, pay the fine. Life's too short IMHO.

One simple email from an MSE template tends to get rid of these fake invoices .... a whole 5 minutes of work .... not a lot of money compared to the ridiculous level of the 'invoice'. Feel free to pay scamming criminals though.

 

[allystrat]

The law is sometimes an ass but from what you have described I can’t imagine any judge ruling against your wife. I’m surprised they’ve even taken it this far. Unless they have a clear cut case these companies normally give up once their threats and shock tactics don’t work.

 

[sully]

I’ve twice had parking cowboys issue court proceedings against me. On both occasions, they backed out before they had to present their case, let alone the court hearing. The second one probably recognised the response as having been drafted by [MENTION=18265]LadySeagull[/MENTION] and ran scared!

I say tough it out and don’t give in to the bullies.

 

[Baldseagull]

I received a PCN in December 2017 from Britannia Parking. Basically my wife had parked in a multi-storey car park to do some Christmas shopping, she paid for all day parking (or thought she had), but received a letter from Britannia saying she hadn’t paid for the duration of her parking. The tariff was £1.80 for 3 hours and £3.50 for all day, but we were given evidence that she had only paid £3.00 and had stayed for 4 hours. I appealed, stating that it was clearly not her intention to pay for 3 hours parking, if that was the case, why would she have overpaid by £1.20 and I suggested that the additional 50p must have got stuck in the payment machine without her realising. My appeal was rejected on the grounds that it was her responsibility to check that she had paid for the relevant parking. Based on previous advice (both from NSC and moneysavingexpert) I politely explained that I didn’t believe the fine was reasonable. There have been a series of law firms that have written to us over the course of the last 3 years, each time I have responded similarly. I was at one point also provided with the data from the parking machine, which interestingly showed that the person who paid after my wife paid £4 (rather than the £3.50 tariff for all day parking). Unfortunately we haven’t had any success and today have received a claim form issued by the County Court.

My wife has told me that she’s had enough of my petty games now and wants to pay up, but I am reluctant to fold now. However I don’t want to put her in a position where she ends up with a county court judgment against her. Any ideas what I should do next? I have to act fairly quickly as the county court claim form requires a response within 14 days.

I would fight it, even if it cost me a lost day of earnings to win, or even lose, I think it's useful experience. There is a thread here http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=138086 with some similarities to your case that might interest you, if you search that site you will find lots of good information, if you want to fight it, explain your case on that site, but try and learn all you can from reading other threads about parking and county court on there first.

 

[Justice]

I need £1000, Please pay me.

Thought not.

Don't give in to bullies.

A grand would be worth the time and hassle fighting, not really worth the time and effort over a £40 fine or whatever it is, well to me anyway.

 

[Timbo]

My wife had a ticket from Haywards Heath Hospital after Parking Eye claimed she had paid at the wrong machine. She let it go all the way to court and last week the judge absolutely tore Parking Eye to bits and threw their claim out. I think you'll find that judges think along the same lines as everybody else and will spend plenty of time trawling through their 'evidence' to find a reason to tell them to go **** themselves.

 

[sully]

A grand would be worth the time and hassle fighting, not really worth the time and effort over a £40 fine or whatever it is, well to me anyway.

If it’s got as far as a County Court claim, the “fine” will have been enhanced to a few hundred. If it’s anything like my experiences, it’ll be difficult to follow how it got to be the figure on the claim form.

If people stopped just paying these fraudsters for a simple life, they might have to change. It’s because people pay them sums they are not entitled to that their business model works.

 

[Justice]

If it’s got as far as a County Court claim, the “fine” will have been enhanced to a few hundred. If it’s anything like my experiences, it’ll be difficult to follow how it got to be the figure on the claim form.

If people stopped just paying these fraudsters for a simple life, they might have to change. It’s because people pay them sums they are not entitled to that their business model works.

Living in London I’ve learnt the hard way check all the signs before parking and pay the correct amount, follow my simple advice and guess what no tickets. 99% of people who get tickets haven’t parked or paid correctly just like the OP’s wife.

We all know what these companies are like don’t give them a chance to issue a ticket is all I’m saying.

 

[Baldseagull]

Living in London I’ve learnt the hard way check all the signs before parking and pay the correct amount, follow my simple advice and guess what no tickets. 99% of people who get tickets haven’t parked or paid correctly just like the OP’s wife.

We all know what these companies are like don’t give them a chance to issue a ticket is all I’m saying.

I learned a trick to avoid paying for on street parking in London that worked for several years, by challenging Parking Tickets and learning the law regarding them, and the appeals process. After one or two misses with clumsy wording, I had the formula and successfully appealed more than a hundred tickets where I had not paid at all for parking. In fact, because of how the appeals system made decisions, it made it easier if I had not paid for parking than if I had.

 

[dsr-burnley]

I learned a trick to avoid paying for on street parking in London that worked for several years, by challenging Parking Tickets and learning the law regarding them, and the appeals process. After one or two misses with clumsy wording, I had the formula and successfully appealed more than a hundred tickets where I had not paid at all for parking. In fact, because of how the appeals system made decisions, it made it easier if I had not paid for parking than if I had.

I can understand the unfairness of a single ticket where a genuine mistake has been made, but what is it about you in particular that means you deserve to park for free - loading the costs onto other people?

 

[Justice]

I learned a trick to avoid paying for on street parking in London that worked for several years, by challenging Parking Tickets and learning the law regarding them, and the appeals process. After one or two misses with clumsy wording, I had the formula and successfully appealed more than a hundred tickets where I had not paid at all for parking. In fact, because of how the appeals system made decisions, it made it easier if I had not paid for parking than if I had.

It doesn’t work now?

 

[Shropshire Seagull]

Again you don’t get a CCJ if the judge decides in their favour you pay the fine, that’s it. If you fail to pay in one months then a CCJ will go on record.

It’s the miss information that causes the fear factor.

Are you 100% sure? I think this is misinformation.

CCJ = County Court Judgement - a Judge [in the County Court] has heard the case and made his decision [award] in favour of the Plaintiff.
If the Plaintiff does not win the case they are not given a CCJ against their name.
But if the Defendant loses the case in court [or fails to appear at the court hearing] AND the Judge decides in favour of the Plaintiff, a judgement against the Defendant is recorded - aka a CCJ
However, if the Plaintiff pays in full BEFORE the case is presented in Court [i.e. on receipt of a summons to attend the Court hearing] then no judgement will have been made [by a Judge in court] and so no CCJ will be recorded - is this what you are referring to? [as it's not what you wrote]

More info here

Perhaps you are more likely referring to CCJ impact on a Credit Record?
Unless you pay off a CCJ in full within 30 days of receiving the judgment, it will be entered on your credit record at the Register of Judgments, Orders and Fines. It’ll remain there for six years.
This record can seriously affect your ability to get a mortgage, a credit card or even a bank account in the future. This is another reason it’s important you don’t ignore a County Court Judgment.

But you will still have a CCJ against your name.

 

[PILTDOWN MAN]

Are you 100% sure? I think this is misinformation.

CCJ = County Court Judgement - a Judge [in the County Court] has heard the case and made his decision [award] in favour of the Plaintiff.
If the Plaintiff does not win the case they are not given a CCJ against their name.
But if the Defendant loses the case in court [or fails to appear at the court hearing] AND the Judge decides in favour of the Plaintiff, a judgement against the Defendant is recorded - aka a CCJ
However, if the Plaintiff pays in full BEFORE the case is presented in Court [i.e. on receipt of a summons to attend the Court hearing] then no judgement will have been made [by a Judge in court] and so no CCJ will be recorded - is this what you are referring to? [as it's not what you wrote]

More info here

Perhaps you are more likely referring to CCJ impact on a Credit Record?
Unless you pay off a CCJ in full within 30 days of receiving the judgment, it will be entered on your credit record at the Register of Judgments, Orders and Fines. It’ll remain there for six years.
This record can seriously affect your ability to get a mortgage, a credit card or even a bank account in the future. This is another reason it’s important you don’t ignore a County Court Judgment.

But you will still have a CCJ against your name.

The second part if you pay the fine it doesn't show and therefore you do not need to declare it. This rubbish about answering the question if a CCJ has ever been put against your name is just that rubbish. If that was the case everyone would be constantly getting demands for money and being taken to court.

Too many are frightened of their own shadow.

 

[drew]

Are you 100% sure? I think this is misinformation.

CCJ = County Court Judgement - a Judge [in the County Court] has heard the case and made his decision [award] in favour of the Plaintiff.
If the Plaintiff does not win the case they are not given a CCJ against their name.
But if the Defendant loses the case in court [or fails to appear at the court hearing] AND the Judge decides in favour of the Plaintiff, a judgement against the Defendant is recorded - aka a CCJ
However, if the Plaintiff pays in full BEFORE the case is presented in Court [i.e. on receipt of a summons to attend the Court hearing] then no judgement will have been made [by a Judge in court] and so no CCJ will be recorded - is this what you are referring to? [as it's not what you wrote]

More info here

Perhaps you are more likely referring to CCJ impact on a Credit Record?
Unless you pay off a CCJ in full within 30 days of receiving the judgment, it will be entered on your credit record at the Register of Judgments, Orders and Fines. It’ll remain there for six years.
This record can seriously affect your ability to get a mortgage, a credit card or even a bank account in the future. This is another reason it’s important you don’t ignore a County Court Judgment.

But you will still have a CCJ against your name.

The question normally asked is whether you have any 'outstanding' CCJs against your name as that presupposes that you are a bad risk in terms of credit.

 

[maltaseagull]

I received a PCN in December 2017 from Britannia Parking. Basically my wife had parked in a multi-storey car park to do some Christmas shopping, she paid for all day parking (or thought she had), but received a letter from Britannia saying she hadn’t paid for the duration of her parking. The tariff was £1.80 for 3 hours and £3.50 for all day, but we were given evidence that she had only paid £3.00 and had stayed for 4 hours. I appealed, stating that it was clearly not her intention to pay for 3 hours parking, if that was the case, why would she have overpaid by £1.20 and I suggested that the additional 50p must have got stuck in the payment machine without her realising. My appeal was rejected on the grounds that it was her responsibility to check that she had paid for the relevant parking. Based on previous advice (both from NSC and moneysavingexpert) I politely explained that I didn’t believe the fine was reasonable. There have been a series of law firms that have written to us over the course of the last 3 years, each time I have responded similarly. I was at one point also provided with the data from the parking machine, which interestingly showed that the person who paid after my wife paid £4 (rather than the £3.50 tariff for all day parking). Unfortunately we haven’t had any success and today have received a claim form issued by the County Court.

My wife has told me that she’s had enough of my petty games now and wants to pay up, but I am reluctant to fold now. However I don’t want to put her in a position where she ends up with a county court judgment against her. Any ideas what I should do next? I have to act fairly quickly as the county court claim form requires a response within 14 days.

Having paid over £20 for a couple of hours in Brighton in 2010 I would consider those fees a bargain.

 

[ATFC Seagull]

If it was me I'd probably pay it for the peace of mind, but that's just me.

Interestingly I had a very good experience with Dart Charge recently in appealing a fine. Their website was down on the day I made the journey, and as a result I tried and was unable to pay several times but couldn't. The next day I was busy with family stuff and didn't get a chance. Remembered to do it the next day, but was after the cut off. Paid anyway, and rang to explain. They said that I would still get the penalty charge, but that I could appeal it and it would probably be overturned. Waited weeks, no sign of penalty charge. - thought they might have sensibly waived all the fines from the day their site was down. Then a letter comes demanding double penalty charge for non-payment after a first letter that I never received, and 14 days before legal action begins. Rang up, explained situation, very friendly staff paused all action and took the appeal from me. A month or so later, I got a letter explaining it all seemed reasonable, and as I had paid the next day, they were just going to accept that as payment.

Must be a public vs private sector thing!

 

[Baldseagull]

I can understand the unfairness of a single ticket where a genuine mistake has been made, but what is it about you in particular that means you deserve to park for free - loading the costs onto other people?

No costs fell on anyone else, all the boroughs make a surplus on their parking, and they operate largely to the letter of the law and do not listen to reasonable excuses. I chose to use the law in the way that they did, that is, to my advantage. In my experience, only Islington operated a fair and honest civil enforcement scheme, The City, Westminster and Kensington and Chelsea are the worst, and set up to fleece the maximum from the unwitting driver.

 

[Baldseagull]

It doesn’t work now?

Not as effectively, a judge made a new ruling a few years back now, when someone took the principle to extremes.
Basically, what I used to do was find bays that were incorrectly painted and then challenge the ticket on the basis that the bay was not compliant with the law and so not enforceable. More bays in London were non compliant than compliant, in at least one way, many of them in several ways, and despite me informing them by repeatedly winning appeals on the same bays, only Islington ever sent a team out to repaint bays properly, though even then they often only corrected the fault that I pointed out and left others, so I could do it again.
The new ruling effectively was that if it's largely compliant, it is compliant, so it would need to have several defects to work now, they exist, but a bit rarer and a bit more of a chance that the adjudicator may disagree about what "largely compliant" means.

The first time I tried this defence, I had paid for parking, but the adjudicator ruled that as I had paid to park, I clearly had recognised the line markings as a parking bay, so I could not later claim it was not a parking bay, this is the main reason I never paid to park in a defective bay, as it would scupper my defence if I ended up overstaying and getting a ticket.

 

[Rookie]

Are you 100% sure? I think this is misinformation.

CCJ = County Court Judgement - a Judge [in the County Court] has heard the case and made his decision [award] in favour of the Plaintiff.
If the Plaintiff does not win the case they are not given a CCJ against their name.
But if the Defendant loses the case in court [or fails to appear at the court hearing] AND the Judge decides in favour of the Plaintiff, a judgement against the Defendant is recorded - aka a CCJ
However, if the Plaintiff pays in full BEFORE the case is presented in Court [i.e. on receipt of a summons to attend the Court hearing] then no judgement will have been made [by a Judge in court] and so no CCJ will be recorded - is this what you are referring to? [as it's not what you wrote]

More info here

Perhaps you are more likely referring to CCJ impact on a Credit Record?
Unless you pay off a CCJ in full within 30 days of receiving the judgment, it will be entered on your credit record at the Register of Judgments, Orders and Fines. It’ll remain there for six years.
This record can seriously affect your ability to get a mortgage, a credit card or even a bank account in the future. This is another reason it’s important you don’t ignore a County Court Judgment.

But you will still have a CCJ against your name.

I’m presuming that the first part of what you have written is not from the Gov website (judgment spelt wrong and plaintiff) which raises the question where did you get the info from? Furthermore, the Gov website clearly refers to where a Defendant does not reply not where a hearing takes place.