Parachute Payments - a fair system or not?

[pork pie]

I think the whole thing is unfair, and an uncompetitive practice.

That said, what else can we expect? The whole Premiership thing is designed to ensure that nearly all the money in English football goes to, and stays with the Premier League clubs. Even within the Premiership, because of Champions League money, it would be impossible for anyone other than an established top 4 club, or one with a new sugar daddy to win even a place in the Champions League, let alone the Premiership itself. This is the real reason why there is no salary cap, because the "haves" have everything they want, and do not plan to let anyone else in on the act. It is exactly the same with Rugby, although they at least have a salary cap (so does their Championship, although it is meaningless because of the lack of money at that level).

 

[pork pie]

... ... .... Without parachutes I'd argue that many clubs wouldn't even want promotion and that could f*** up the entire competitive structure of the Football League

You are joking right? Without the Premiership and their parachute payments, the Football League structure worked really well. Small clubs even had a fair chance of winning the league. The problem started when the mega clubs like Manure wanted everything for themselves (after they got back into the top League obviously).

 

[El Presidente]

Last season the promoted teams were QPR, Norwich and Swansea, which blows a hole in the OP's argument.

 

[pork pie]

Maybe it needs to!!

We currently have clubs having an unfair advabtage, and if the justification is how else can those clubs afford to pay the players that give them this unfair advantage. That's just madness.

I totally agree with you. Even the original (public at least) justification of strengthening England's international chances because our players will get better competition at club level every week, has proven to be the complete opposite with foreign players being imported in preference to the "risk" of developing English talent. Promising English players are being forced down the leagues, or to rot in reserve teams.

 

[pork pie]

Last season the promoted teams were QPR, Norwich and Swansea, which blows a hole in the OP's argument.

To be fair, it was qualified. Also, QPR are probably a good example of how money is important, as provided by their F1 owners.

 

[Rugrat]

You are joking right? Without the Premiership and their parachute payments, the Football League structure worked really well. Small clubs even had a fair chance of winning the league. The problem started when the mega clubs like Manure wanted everything for themselves (after they got back into the top League obviously).

No .. what I mean is if that parachutes were removed then a club .. say Brighton .. go's up but can't afford to sign up players on 3/4 year deals at £50K a week in case they then get relegated and can't off load them. So then sign a player with a clause saying if relegated ... but I don't see any player worth his salt buying that - no doubt a fringe player will but these aren't the ones that are going to hold you hostage. So then we go up .. don't invest in players because of this, get tonked week in week out and come down again with a despondent group of players and fans. OK so we got our go in the PL .. so what? I think there would be a valid case for staying in the Champs and not going through the aggro

Not sure if that makes sense and 100% agree the old FL worked brilliantly ... yes there were still the super clubs but it was much more evenly spread. It's such a pity that the revenues aren't distributed more fairly, it would encourage much more development and be a far more interesting spectacle for us. Unfortunately the whole thing is driven by commercial objectives

 

[pork pie]

No .. what I mean is if that parachutes were removed then a club .. say Brighton .. go's up but can't afford to sign up players on 3/4 year deals at £50K a week in case they then get relegated and can't off load them. So then sign a player with a clause saying if relegated ... but I don't see any player worth his salt buying that - ... ... ...

I understand what you are saying. However, you have highlighted the exact problem, but from another angle. Players are being paid to much, by clubs that cannot afford to do so. The Premiership's monopoly on the money in English football makes it worse, because once clubs fail and are relegated, they get a fraction of the income without the Premiership money (even after parachute payments). Parachute payments, simply distort things at Championship level, and allow small clubs such as Blackpool and unfair advantage, just because they got lucky in the playoffs one year. What needs to be sorted out is an INTERNATIONAL salary cap (otherwise English clubs would be at a disadvantage), and standard contracts for players - including clauses to cover relegation.

 

[Rugrat]

I understand what you are saying. However, you have highlighted the exact problem, but from another angle. Players are being paid to much, by clubs that cannot afford to do so. The Premiership's monopoly on the money in English football makes it worse, because once clubs fail and are relegated, they get a fraction of the income without the Premiership money (even after parachute payments). Parachute payments, simply distort things at Championship level, and allow small clubs such as Blackpool and unfair advantage, just because they got lucky in the playoffs one year. What needs to be sorted out is an INTERNATIONAL salary cap (otherwise English clubs would be at a disadvantage), and standard contracts for players - including clauses to cover relegation.

Yes mate .. I think we're saying much the same thing.

Not sure about Blackpool, thought their Chairman said "thanks I'll have that" for a big slug of it.

I lived in US for a few years and salary caps didn't work there, get round it with all sorts of dodgy stuff (sponsorships, endorsements etc). In the same way City will get round the financial fair play stuff. Introduce a rule and before the ink has even dried someone will work out a loophole. I think we're stuck with it but hoping that those with a interest in keeping the game interesting for the gazillions of fans will keep trying to figure it out

 

[gazingdown]

No .. what I mean is if that parachutes were removed then a club .. say Brighton .. go's up but can't afford to sign up players on 3/4 year deals at £50K a week in case they then get relegated and can't off load them. So then sign a player with a clause saying if relegated ... but I don't see any player worth his salt buying that

I disagree. Probably the whole bottom half of the PL will need to have this clause in, so if player X "not buying that" declines, where will he go? They'll just have to accept it. If they are "too good" for the CS if they get relegated, they can negotiate a get-out clause so they can be sold if they get relegated.

 

[Rugrat]

I disagree. Probably the whole bottom half of the PL will need to have this clause in, so if player X "not buying that" declines, where will he go? They'll just have to accept it. If they are "too good" for the CS if they get relegated, they can negotiate a get-out clause so they can be sold if they get relegated.

Not sure we do disagree. I agree the bottom half of PL would need it (maybe more) but it won't work because it can't be mandated and they won't get together and agree it. I agree if they all did it players (actually it's agents) wouldn't have a choice but it won't happen. Don't get me wrong I'd scrap parachute tomorrow but it would need to be replaced with this relegation clause stuff (or better still a much broader distribution of TV money) and the PL would never agree it as it doesn't benefit them in any way (that I can see). So we're stuck with it and all the while the obscene difference in finance between PL and FL exists I can't see it changing

 

[Gritt23]

I lived in US for a few years and salary caps didn't work there, get round it with all sorts of dodgy stuff (sponsorships, endorsements etc).

The American sport I follow is the NFL, and I don't think they do find ways around it actually. Not saying a salary cap would work in football, as we don't have an equivalent of Roger Goodell who can issue sanctions as freely, but please correct me if I'm wrong in reklation to how successful salary caps are in the NFL, where to me, they appear to work exceptionally well.

 

[Lethargic]

No it's not fair and it's simply a way of the Premiership trying to clear its conscience of the obscene amount of money. Full blown financial regulation is required but will never happen so we will have to get used to it.

 

[Gritt23]

No .. what I mean is if that parachutes were removed then a club .. say Brighton .. go's up but can't afford to sign up players on 3/4 year deals at £50K a week in case they then get relegated and can't off load them. So then sign a player with a clause saying if relegated ... but I don't see any player worth his salt buying that - no doubt a fringe player will but these aren't the ones that are going to hold you hostage.

Don't agree. I very much doubt that the players Norwich went out and signed last summer were the billy-big-bollocks who would hold the club to ransom, demanding £50k a week and no relegation clause, and that seems to have worked out fine for them.

Ironically, QPR signing players like Barton, SWH, and Kieron Dyer are far more likely to be players who would have demanded the big salary and no clauses, which hasn't worked so well at all. Maybe those demanding the big wages are just mercenaries that you can do a lot of damage by signing anyway.

 

[Rugrat]

Don't agree. I very much doubt that the players Norwich went out and signed last summer were the billy-big-bollocks who would hold the club to ransom, demanding £50k a week and no relegation clause, and that seems to have worked out fine for them.

Ironically, QPR signing players like Barton, SWH, and Kieron Dyer are far more likely to be players who would have demanded the big salary and no clauses, which hasn't worked so well at all. Maybe those demanding the big wages are just mercenaries that you can do a lot of damage by signing anyway.

Norwich no, nor Swansea and if they can stay up and build all credit to them but they are exceptions to the general practice I think. The thing is those coming down have (generally?) I think managed to get back up before the parachute expired.

I'm no expert on NFL or indeed any US sport so won't argue with you on that ... I was there 96-02 and just recall that salary cap and all the things that teams (franchises) were doing to get around it seemed like a very regular news item

 

[seagullsovergrimsby]

Parachute payments effectively keeps the money rolling in to Sky and the EPL. In truth there are 3 mini leagues in the Prem (top 6 , wannabes and strugglers) and another in the Championship (yoyo clubs). When we get promoted I hope we adopt the "Blackpool" method rather than the "Pompey" strategy.

 

[Gritt23]

Norwich no, nor Swansea and if they can stay up and build all credit to them but they are exceptions to the general practice I think. The thing is those coming down have (generally?) I think managed to get back up before the parachute expired.

Even if it hadn't been THIS successful, it seemed a logical route for a "yo-yo club" to take as, at teh very worst, they were signing players who may well stay following a relegation, as they weren't BIG names, but would have been a helluva Championship side next season. As it is, they've stayed up in some style, and that makes them the template others will now follow.

I'm no expert on NFL or indeed any US sport so won't argue with you on that ... I was there 96-02 and just recall that salary cap and all the things that teams (franchises) were doing to get around it seemed like a very regular news item

Maybe it took a few years to iron out a few details, but I certainly don't see any issues in teh NFL these days, and any that do crop up are quickly addressed. For example, some teams, esp the Glazers in Tampa Bay, have been spending too little to make the team competitive, but there is no penalty for that, as relegation isn't an issue. So, as of 2013, there will be a floor as well as a Cap, so that teams MUST spend a minimum amount to ensure they are making a proper effort to be competitive.

It does make such a difference when teh authorities have proper power though and use it! The NFL Commissioner has recently punished the Cowboys and Redskins for making the most of last year being a "cap free" year as a result of the lock-out. They brought forward a lot of contract payments into last year, to leave cap room for subsequent years, and although there was no specific rule in place to disallow that, the Commissioner has still come down heavy on them for their actions, on the basis that they were trying to gain an advantage. While it seems a tad harsh, it just shows the power the authorities wield, and how determined they are to maintain a level playing field.

 

[Rugrat]

As it is, they've stayed up in some style, and that makes them the template others will now follow.

Well I hope you are correct ... it may make the PL even more predictable than it is now (if that's possible) but I think it will be for the betterment of football (?) if some greater sense of financial discipline were introduced - end of .... you'll be thrilled to know I'm off out