Panaroma last night

[Surrey_Albion]

I'm nearly turning 18 and for months I struggled to find work after being kicked out of college. I realised I needed to do something with my life so while signed on I started full time voluntary work. I was signed on for a couple of months and then signed off as I managed to get a full time apprenticeship because they saw how keen I was to work. I get a decent wage, much better than what I would of been if I was still signed on and love where I work. I've gone from sitting on my arse and doing nothing to working full time and also starting boxing which is something new to me.

Good on you fella, your proof the ideas on this thread WOULD and could work, take note lefties

 

[BigGully]

I'm nearly turning 18 and for months I struggled to find work after being kicked out of college. I realised I needed to do something with my life so while signed on I started full time voluntary work. I was signed on for a couple of months and then signed off as I managed to get a full time apprenticeship because they saw how keen I was to work. I get a decent wage, much better than what I would of been if I was still signed on and love where I work. I've gone from sitting on my arse and doing nothing to working full time and also starting boxing which is something new to me.

Work is a very hard thing to come by at this age though and a lot of people need to realise that..

I am guessing you live at home, maybe at some stage you will need house yourself.

Whilst your working you would need to either use all of your money to pay a rent or save up a sizeable deposit for a mortgage, with other associated financial commitments.

However if your unemployed, you might be housed at no expense to you, if your unemployed and have a family, get yourself a nice private let.

Lets turn this around, if you were already unemployed and living off the state including your housing, could you of really afforded to take the wholly responsible/commendable life course that you have

 

[Camicus]

This reminds me of something on the Maggie Thatcher thread. There is no society. Lets face it those on Panorama are no more representative of all 18 year olds than if they had filmed at Eton. There are good and bad everywhere My boy went to France to apprentice as a chef after 6 months of trying to find a job in the uk and in that time he signed on but it wasnt a lifestyle choice. Those kids were poorly educated poorly prepaired for life so that is what needs adressing. Generations living with no hope of bettering themselves and everybody just hating on them. If you were in there situation wouldnt you smoke pot and say a big f*** you to the world?

 

[Kuipers Supporters Club]

Why have they been let down by a failed system? The system is actually trying to support them by giving them money. For this money they are meant to go and find work, they can probably go to college for free as well due to their own personal situations, but it seems they are just happy to sit on their arse, smoke a spliff and moan about the system.

Those teenagers said there where no jobs. There are jobs if you are desperate. Why are the foreigners managing to get jobs, is it because they show enthusiasm and the companies can rely on them to turn up on time, not moan, and think they are better than what they really are.

They have exactly the same chances of these workers from overseas, in fact they have the advantage. Nobody is sleeping on the street, they can all eat.

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They have been failed because they have no incentive to work, and why would they? If you could get paid the same amount for not working as you could for being in employment then why would you work? Therefore the system has failed them.

 

[Kuipers Supporters Club]

The System fails , when the repeat offender is not afraid of the option to go back to prison .Therefore it is no deterent

The system fails when some young men have no other option than prison, they have not got any incentives or opportunities. These people need to be educated into being able to better themselves and not be churned time and time again through 'colleges of crime'...

 

[User removed 4]

I agree with your sentiments. Where you are wrong is that you blame lefties and do-gooders, but seem unprepared to consider that right wing millionaires who see fit to slash basic state care for those most in need are equally a cause of the problem.

Ultimately, there needs to be a cultural shift away from treating the welfare state as a lifestyle choice because it doesn't matter what changes are made, there are ALWAYS going to be people who still somehow slip through the net, and those who do unfairly well out of it. A bit like life in general. But what can be changed are people's attitudes.

What is my solution? Well I think the law ought to be changed such that benefit cheats are properly punished by a potential stretch inside that perhaps exceeds the seriousness of the crime. I'd like to see some proper provisions made for those long term unemployed - I fail to see the shame in people earning their benefits by doing jobs in the community that make the country a nicer place to live.

And I'd like to see some cross party agreement on a way to tackle the problem because changing a culture costs money, and that is what needs to happen.

Surprisingly I agree with you, but working for benefits should be for the COMMUNITY, not cheap labour for unscrupolous employers , which I understand is how the system works now.

 

[User removed 4]

I'm nearly turning 18 and for months I struggled to find work after being kicked out of college. I realised I needed to do something with my life so while signed on I started full time voluntary work. I was signed on for a couple of months and then signed off as I managed to get a full time apprenticeship because they saw how keen I was to work. I get a decent wage, much better than what I would of been if I was still signed on and love where I work. I've gone from sitting on my arse and doing nothing to working full time and also starting boxing which is something new to me.

Work is a very hard thing to come by at this age though and a lot of people need to realise that..

where ? at whitehawk ?

 

[Aadam]

Heard on the radio a few weeks ago they are trying a scheme where once you leave school or uni, and you are on jobseekers, you get sent to a work placement for 3 months where you obviously earn your job seekers!

Then they said some people are claiming its slave labour etc, but they also interviewed a few people who went on it saying they either got a job with the firm. Or it helped them get a job as it looks good on their CV

I Personally would cut jobseekers allouwence after 6 months, or simply all benifits if people CAN work, so it encourages them to get a job!

The trouble is in defining those that CAN work. Unfortunately with the new changes to DLA those that cannot work are being told they can. You only have to Google Atos to see that thousands of disabled people are being forced to work after being told by a computer that they're fit for work. People with cancer et al. Add them to the group of people trying to find work, or those that take job seekers and you have a problem wit you start cutting off benefits to those that truly need them. It's not a blanket solution to cut all benefits.

If the government spent the millions they're paying Atos to cut the disability benefits on people that need them, i.e., those able and willing to work but cannot find work, I'm sure they'd be in a better place. Unfortunately this government concentrates its resources on those unable to fight back, rather than those that deserve a little kick up the backside.

Some people are just not worth helping. If they don't want helping leave them on the scrap heap. I'd hate for an apprenticeship place to go to some layabout that has no interest in earning a decent living rather than someone fresh out of school/college that actually wants to work and further themselves.

 

[albion534]

The trouble is in defining those that CAN work. Unfortunately with the new changes to DLA those that cannot work are being told they can. You only have to Google Atos to see that thousands of disabled people are being forced to work after being told by a computer that they're fit for work. People with cancer et al. Add them to the group of people trying to find work, or those that take job seekers and you have a problem wit you start cutting off benefits to those that truly need them. It's not a blanket solution to cut all benefits.

If the government spent the millions they're paying Atos to cut the disability benefits on people that need them, i.e., those able and willing to work but cannot find work, I'm sure they'd be in a better place. Unfortunately this government concentrates its resources on those unable to fight back, rather than those that deserve a little kick up the backside.

Some people are just not worth helping. If they don't want helping leave them on the scrap heap. I'd hate for an apprenticeship place to go to some layabout that has no interest in earning a decent living rather than someone fresh out of school/college that actually wants to work and further themselves.

Read in the paper ages ago, a father of 7 earnt more on benifits then he would in work, fair play to him for admitting it and saying he would rather work, but he said he wouldn't earn enough to support his family

Obviously don't have so many kids you can't support them, that's what's wrong there

The government need to clamp down harder on scumbags, problem is, human rights wankers will always pop up

 

[Aadam]

Read in the paper ages ago, a father of 7 earnt more on benifits then he would in work, fair play to him for admitting it and saying he would rather work, but he said he wouldn't earn enough to support his family

Obviously don't have so many kids you can't support them, that's what's wrong there

The government need to clamp down harder on scumbags, problem is, human rights wankers will always pop up

The trouble is that the Daily Mail would have you believe this is a typical benefit claimants situation. Seven kids, large house paid for by the state, comfortably well off and can afford a holiday and Sky TV with mobile phones for all the kids. When in reality it couldn't be further from the truth. And benefits do not come in a one size fits all.

Our of interest, what is a scumbag? Someone that cannot find a job that will cover his housing, bills and food for his family, a kid that doesn't want to work, A single mother with paid housing?

 

[albion534]

The trouble is that the Daily Mail would have you believe this is a typical benefit claimants situation. Seven kids, large house paid for by the state, comfortably well off and can afford a holiday and Sky TV with mobile phones for all the kids. When in reality it couldn't be further from the truth. And benefits do not come in a one size fits all.

Our of interest, what is a scumbag? Someone that cannot find a job that will cover his housing, bills and food for his family, a kid that doesn't want to work, A single mother with paid housing?

No it wasn't the daily mail

And it's a person who is happy to claim benifits who should be looking for a job, but is quite happy to sponge off the state to smoke weed/drink

 

[BigGully]

The trouble is in defining those that CAN work. Unfortunately with the new changes to DLA those that cannot work are being told they can. You only have to Google Atos to see that thousands of disabled people are being forced to work after being told by a computer that they're fit for work. People with cancer et al. Add them to the group of people trying to find work, or those that take job seekers and you have a problem wit you start cutting off benefits to those that truly need them. It's not a blanket solution to cut all benefits.

If the government spent the millions they're paying Atos to cut the disability benefits on people that need them, i.e., those able and willing to work but cannot find work, I'm sure they'd be in a better place. Unfortunately this government concentrates its resources on those unable to fight back, rather than those that deserve a little kick up the backside.

Some people are just not worth helping. If they don't want helping leave them on the scrap heap. I'd hate for an apprenticeship place to go to some layabout that has no interest in earning a decent living rather than someone fresh out of school/college that actually wants to work and further themselves.

If they are being forced to work and are working, it might be argued they are fit to work.

Inevitably there might be mistakes, but just because you are disabled it doesnt mean you cannot deal with mistakes, it shouldn't mean we don't challenge those that our scamming the system.

I cannot accept that people genuinely not able to work due to disability or illness are somehow not receiving their entitled benefits.

 

[User removed 4]

There is also this case :
Bulgarian gypsies who came to UK to get benefits are housed 3 weeks after arriving | The Sun |News

I'm not going to go into the minutae of the story, which some on here are bound to try, to deflect attention away from the f***ing scandal that they were housed 3 weeks after arrival, my question is WHY THE f*** SHOULD THEY BE HOUSED AT ALL ?

 

[Aadam]

If they are being forced to work and are working, it might be argued they are fit to work.

Inevitably there might be mistakes, but just because you are disabled it doesnt mean you cannot deal with mistakes, it shouldn't mean we don't challenge those that our scamming the system.

I cannot accept that people genuinely not able to work due to disability or illness are somehow not receiving their entitled benefits.

Okay maybe I should rephrase that, they're having their benefits cut off. So they're forced into poverty or work, despite how sick it will make them.

And with regards to your last statement, try telling that to Stephen Hill. Oh wait, you can't because he is now dead, 39 days after he was declared fit to work by Atos. He was denied sickness benefits because he was told he was fit for work. He had suffered heart problems for two years and was awaiting major heart surgery, but following his 10 minute assessment he was deemed well enough to work.

A computer makes these decisions, with no regard to doctors information, no medical examinations. People with cancer and heart complications are being told to go to work (where though? Who'd employ someone on the list for major heart surgery?). In Nazi Germany the disabled and sick were seen as surplus to the task of building a mighty Reich. In Cameron’s Britain the disabled and sick are seen as surplus to the task of ‘bringing down the deficit’.

 

[GreersElbow]

They did try, it was called 'workfare'. Then the 'revolutionary' left kicked off about it, claiming it to be slavery. Not sure if it's still policy...

 

[Deleted member 22389]

There is also this case :
Bulgarian gypsies who came to UK to get benefits are housed 3 weeks after arriving | The Sun |News

I'm not going to go into the minutae of the story, which some on here are bound to try, to deflect attention away from the f***ing scandal that they were housed 3 weeks after arrival, my question is WHY THE f*** SHOULD THEY BE HOUSED AT ALL ?

None of them should be housed period. If your coming to UK you should have sufficient funds to be able to house yourself. No benefits should be handed over.. As we know this is just one of thousands of cases where the only reason some people have arrived is because of our benefits system.

Unless someone in the EU changes the rules, we can't do anything about this. It's just another case of the tax payer getting ripped off.

 

[upthealbion1970]

If they are being forced to work and are working, it might be argued they are fit to work.

Inevitably there might be mistakes, but just because you are disabled it doesnt mean you cannot deal with mistakes, it shouldn't mean we don't challenge those that our scamming the system.

I cannot accept that people genuinely not able to work due to disability or illness are somehow not receiving their entitled benefits.

A disabled person forced back to work may well be fit for work for a short time, but that short time at work may well make them more ill in the long term. The whole ATOS medical system is massively wrong on so many levels it borders on being comical, it's designed to catch the scammers out but not to help the people who need helping. Every 6 months my mrs has a phonecall to enquire if her degenerative disease (ms) "has got any better". I know of plenty of disabled people who are not getting the benefits they need purely down to the ATOS fiasco. The moment the system was designed solely to catch the scammers was the moment it failed.

 

[cunning fergus]

Why have they been let down by a failed system? The system is actually trying to support them by giving them money. For this money they are meant to go and find work, they can probably go to college for free as well due to their own personal situations, but it seems they are just happy to sit on their arse, smoke a spliff and moan about the system.

Those teenagers said there where no jobs. There are jobs if you are desperate. Why are the foreigners managing to get jobs, is it because they show enthusiasm and the companies can rely on them to turn up on time, not moan, and think they are better than what they really are.

They have exactly the same chances of these workers from overseas, in fact they have the advantage. Nobody is sleeping on the street, they can all eat.

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The "system" has certainly not acted in the interests of millions of unskilled British working class. If it had it would have prevented the many hundreds and thousands of unskilled foreigners saturating the skilled/unskilled labour market ove rthe last 10 years.

For the British unskilled working class in particular wages are down to levels that they can get in welfare, so many will take the easy option to sit on their arse all day rather than graft all day for largely the same money.

Some won't of course and it was heartening that the father of 3 kids worked 2 shifts as a cleaner rather than take the dole. His kids should do OK if they take after him (although hopefully they won't get involved in doorstep loans like he did, but that's another story).

Fact is many of those kids are not University/white collar material so they need an opportunity to get into meaningful unskilled work with a vew to developing into skilled workers/craftsmen whatever.

They won't get the opportunity though because Josek who lives in the 2 bedroom house down the road with his 680 polish/eastern eurpoean mates will do the job dirt cheap and tax free. Everyone's happy with cheap polish plumber arent they.

British jobs for British workers..........I should coco.

 

[Deleted member 22389]

The "system" has certainly not acted in the interests of millions of unskilled British working class. If it had it would have prevented the many hundreds and thousands of unskilled foreigners saturating the skilled/unskilled labour market ove rthe last 10 years.

For the British unskilled working class in particular wages are down to levels that they can get in welfare, so many will take the easy option to sit on their arse all day rather than graft all day for largely the same money.

Some won't of course and it was heartening that the father of 3 kids worked 2 shifts as a cleaner rather than take the dole. His kids should do OK if they take after him (although hopefully they won't get involved in doorstep loans like he did, but that's another story).

Fact is many of those kids are not University/white collar material so they need an opportunity to get into meaningful unskilled work with a vew to developing into skilled workers/craftsmen whatever.

They won't get the opportunity though because Josek who lives in the 2 bedroom house down the road with his 680 polish/eastern eurpoean mates will do the job dirt cheap and tax free. Everyone's happy with cheap polish plumber arent they.

British jobs for British workers..........I should coco.

I agree British jobs for British workers, however there is absolutely nothing this country can do to stop the influx of workers from Eastern Europe. It's done, Labour opened the floodgates expecting only 19,000 from Poland to seek work in the UK, well they got that badly wrong didn't they?, and I don't see a policy change from either Tories or Labour to stop it in the near future either. They are scared of talking about it or challenging it, because they don't want labels. That is how pathetic immigration has become in this country.

The only ones that might are UKIP, but they are a long way off from getting any control of this country. We are going to have to live with it, and British people are going to have to compete for these jobs in their own country because nothing will change. They will need to work for less money otherwise they might be on the dole for years. It's not right at the end of the day, but what can you do apart from marching towards No.10 with your garden forks.

 

[User removed 4]

The "system" has certainly not acted in the interests of millions of unskilled British working class. If it had it would have prevented the many hundreds and thousands of unskilled foreigners saturating the skilled/unskilled labour market ove rthe last 10 years.

For the British unskilled working class in particular wages are down to levels that they can get in welfare, so many will take the easy option to sit on their arse all day rather than graft all day for largely the same money.

Some won't of course and it was heartening that the father of 3 kids worked 2 shifts as a cleaner rather than take the dole. His kids should do OK if they take after him (although hopefully they won't get involved in doorstep loans like he did, but that's another story).

Fact is many of those kids are not University/white collar material so they need an opportunity to get into meaningful unskilled work with a vew to developing into skilled workers/craftsmen whatever.

They won't get the opportunity though because Josek who lives in the 2 bedroom house down the road with his 680 polish/eastern eurpoean mates will do the job dirt cheap and tax free. Everyone's happy with cheap polish plumber arent they.

British jobs for British workers..........I should coco.

Absolutely spot on.