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Palace rivalry piece in today's Times
- Thread starter Pat McCrotch
- Start date
eastlondonseagull
Well-known member
Nice quotes. Shame about all the bloody hyphens!
Icy Gull
Back on the rollercoaster
- Jul 5, 2003
- 72,015
Some say the dispute started in a pub disagreement about the nicknames?
Really?
First ever game I went to was the game in '76 and the riposte of Seagulls grew and grew during the game after Palace chants of Eagles. But there was no real animosity in that game that I recall. It was definitely the 5 meetings and the Ron Palace Challis cheating that sparked it big time.
Really?
First ever game I went to was the game in '76 and the riposte of Seagulls grew and grew during the game after Palace chants of Eagles. But there was no real animosity in that game that I recall. It was definitely the 5 meetings and the Ron Palace Challis cheating that sparked it big time.
somerset
New member
Both teams have closer rivals
?
?
It's true now that Crawley are in the league. But why do people seem to think Portsmouth are closer? They're not - they're 5 miles further away.Both teams have closer rivals
Sussex Nomad
Well-known member
GreersElbow
New member
He spells Brighton without a capital B in their programme? How pathetic.
vegster
Sanity Clause
- May 5, 2008
- 28,273
I remember that happening quite clearly, I was too young to drink at that point, but at the the time it seemed hilarious to counter "Eagles" with "Seagulls". At that point we were the faintly ridiculous " Dolphins " and it was a logical step to quietly move a Seagull on to our badge.
Here's a piece by a Palace fan: http://www.spiked-online.com/index.php?%2Fsite%2Farticle%2F13608%2F
Forget El Clasico or Boca v River Plate or the Old Firm. You can keep your Arsenal v Spurs and your Manchester derby. This weekend is the Big One. Crystal Palace v Brighton in the Championship playoffs. This is the most important fixture of the season for the bitterest of football rivals.
Okay, some of those other rivalries are quite tasty, but for fans of Palace and Brighton, nothing compares to this. When the two sides meet you can cut the venomous hostility with a knife. There was a 13-year period between 1989 and 2002 when the clubs didn’t play a single competitive match against each other. Yet still the flames of animosity could not be doused. Even though the teams were in different divisions you’d still hear old terrace war songs about legendary punch-ups from yesteryear. ‘Hark now hear the Palace sing, the Brighton run away. And we will fight forever more because of Boxing Day.’ That’s what Palace fans chant. They still do. Brighton supporters sing their own version with the names of the clubs swapped. If you never understood George Orwell’s description of sport as ‘war minus the shooting’, go and watch Palace v Brighton – if you can get a ticket. It is gloriously ferocious.
Talking of Orwell, the police have incensed supporters of both teams by imposing what the Daily Mail described as ‘draconian ticket measures’ on spectators. For both legs of the play-off semi-final, all away fans will be required to carry proof of identity. Any fans who fail to show their ID to police or stewards, either en route to the game or at the turnstiles, will be refused entry. Those who sell or give their ticket to another person face a one-year ban from football. It’s an astonishingly punitive set of restrictions. Successive governments have floated the idea of ID cards, but each time they have backed down. Even Margaret Thatcher abandoned plans to introduce a national membership scheme – effectively an ID-card system - for football fans.
And yet, without any parliamentary debate, the Metropolitan and Sussex police forces have suspended the civil liberties of fans of the two clubs. Ironically, the police have briefly brought Palace and Brighton fans together in common cause against the ID requirements. But, as soon as the referee blows his whistle for kick off, the policing methods will be forgotten and hostilities will resume. The matchday atmosphere will be animated by a heady cocktail of passion and vitriol that makes derby days so special.
The rivalry between Palace and Brighton frequently has neutrals scratching their heads. Even Palace manager Ian Holloway admitted he found the rivalry ‘a bit weird’. The two clubs are 45 miles apart yet Palace fans regard Brighton as their biggest rivals. Bigger than south London neighbours Millwall. And certainly bigger than Charlton Athletic. In fact, many Palace fans will strenuously deny that any rivalry with Charlton even exists. Of course, we don’t particularly like them. We won’t forget how they celebrated our relegation in 2005 as though they’d won the cup. But hatred? Nah, sorry. Charlton are irksome maybe, but it’s not hatred. We reserve that for the Brighton. The stubborn refusal to acknowledge Charlton as rivals is, of course, a thinly-veiled form of mockery. The subtext is that Charlton are a lesser club; one that’s not worthy of our hatred. That’s the way football animosities work. The flipside of the fiercest rivalry is a grudging respect. Hatred is a form of flattery. You can only really hate an enemy of similar stature.
Why, you might ask, do we hate each other with so much passion? I’m tempted to say that such things need no explanation. The hatred between Palace and Brighton is a self-evident truth. But given that so many people are perplexed by the rivalry, I guess it warrants some explanation.
The rivalry is actually relatively new. It can be traced back to the 1976-77 season when the respective managers - Alan Mullery at Brighton and Terry Venables at Palace - conducted a war of words in the press. That season, the two clubs were pitted against each other in a series of bad tempered league and cup encounters culminating in an explosive FA Cup replay at Stamford Bridge. Palace won the game 1-0, but the iconic moment was when Alan Mullery, incensed by a series of bad refereeing decisions, famously lost the plot. In an interview with the Guardian in 2011, Mullery explained what happened: ‘As I was walking up the tunnel…a load of boiling hot coffee was thrown over me by a Crystal Palace supporter. So I pulled a handful of change out of my pocket, threw it on the floor and shouted, “That’s all you’re worth, Crystal Palace!”.’ In that moment a beautiful animosity was born.
In recent years, some younger, revisionist Palace fans have questioned the rivalry. Many weren’t even born when the Boxing Day battles took place. But they are in the minority. This isn’t just a sporting competition; the rivalry is now woven into the mythological fabric of both clubs. It’s an article of faith. It’s what defines us. I hate therefore I am. That’s why the playoff semi-final will be an emotional nerve-shredder. Defeat is simply unthinkable. It’s thrilling. And it’s terrifying.
Forget El Clasico or Boca v River Plate or the Old Firm. You can keep your Arsenal v Spurs and your Manchester derby. This weekend is the Big One. Crystal Palace v Brighton in the Championship playoffs. This is the most important fixture of the season for the bitterest of football rivals.
Okay, some of those other rivalries are quite tasty, but for fans of Palace and Brighton, nothing compares to this. When the two sides meet you can cut the venomous hostility with a knife. There was a 13-year period between 1989 and 2002 when the clubs didn’t play a single competitive match against each other. Yet still the flames of animosity could not be doused. Even though the teams were in different divisions you’d still hear old terrace war songs about legendary punch-ups from yesteryear. ‘Hark now hear the Palace sing, the Brighton run away. And we will fight forever more because of Boxing Day.’ That’s what Palace fans chant. They still do. Brighton supporters sing their own version with the names of the clubs swapped. If you never understood George Orwell’s description of sport as ‘war minus the shooting’, go and watch Palace v Brighton – if you can get a ticket. It is gloriously ferocious.
Talking of Orwell, the police have incensed supporters of both teams by imposing what the Daily Mail described as ‘draconian ticket measures’ on spectators. For both legs of the play-off semi-final, all away fans will be required to carry proof of identity. Any fans who fail to show their ID to police or stewards, either en route to the game or at the turnstiles, will be refused entry. Those who sell or give their ticket to another person face a one-year ban from football. It’s an astonishingly punitive set of restrictions. Successive governments have floated the idea of ID cards, but each time they have backed down. Even Margaret Thatcher abandoned plans to introduce a national membership scheme – effectively an ID-card system - for football fans.
And yet, without any parliamentary debate, the Metropolitan and Sussex police forces have suspended the civil liberties of fans of the two clubs. Ironically, the police have briefly brought Palace and Brighton fans together in common cause against the ID requirements. But, as soon as the referee blows his whistle for kick off, the policing methods will be forgotten and hostilities will resume. The matchday atmosphere will be animated by a heady cocktail of passion and vitriol that makes derby days so special.
The rivalry between Palace and Brighton frequently has neutrals scratching their heads. Even Palace manager Ian Holloway admitted he found the rivalry ‘a bit weird’. The two clubs are 45 miles apart yet Palace fans regard Brighton as their biggest rivals. Bigger than south London neighbours Millwall. And certainly bigger than Charlton Athletic. In fact, many Palace fans will strenuously deny that any rivalry with Charlton even exists. Of course, we don’t particularly like them. We won’t forget how they celebrated our relegation in 2005 as though they’d won the cup. But hatred? Nah, sorry. Charlton are irksome maybe, but it’s not hatred. We reserve that for the Brighton. The stubborn refusal to acknowledge Charlton as rivals is, of course, a thinly-veiled form of mockery. The subtext is that Charlton are a lesser club; one that’s not worthy of our hatred. That’s the way football animosities work. The flipside of the fiercest rivalry is a grudging respect. Hatred is a form of flattery. You can only really hate an enemy of similar stature.
Why, you might ask, do we hate each other with so much passion? I’m tempted to say that such things need no explanation. The hatred between Palace and Brighton is a self-evident truth. But given that so many people are perplexed by the rivalry, I guess it warrants some explanation.
The rivalry is actually relatively new. It can be traced back to the 1976-77 season when the respective managers - Alan Mullery at Brighton and Terry Venables at Palace - conducted a war of words in the press. That season, the two clubs were pitted against each other in a series of bad tempered league and cup encounters culminating in an explosive FA Cup replay at Stamford Bridge. Palace won the game 1-0, but the iconic moment was when Alan Mullery, incensed by a series of bad refereeing decisions, famously lost the plot. In an interview with the Guardian in 2011, Mullery explained what happened: ‘As I was walking up the tunnel…a load of boiling hot coffee was thrown over me by a Crystal Palace supporter. So I pulled a handful of change out of my pocket, threw it on the floor and shouted, “That’s all you’re worth, Crystal Palace!”.’ In that moment a beautiful animosity was born.
In recent years, some younger, revisionist Palace fans have questioned the rivalry. Many weren’t even born when the Boxing Day battles took place. But they are in the minority. This isn’t just a sporting competition; the rivalry is now woven into the mythological fabric of both clubs. It’s an article of faith. It’s what defines us. I hate therefore I am. That’s why the playoff semi-final will be an emotional nerve-shredder. Defeat is simply unthinkable. It’s thrilling. And it’s terrifying.
smudge
Up the Albion!
Kevin Day funny? He hooked up his caravan to the football bandwagon when he realised it was becoming soooo middle class. Palace tw*t.
Not really, he just doesn't get how pathetic it is to pick an American bird of prey as their mascot.
Exactly.
He spelt it with a lower case 'b' because he's Palace, and therefore illiterate. He had to come up with an excuse when questioned on it.
Icy Gull
Back on the rollercoaster
- Jul 5, 2003
- 72,015
I doubt there will be a Palace or Albion fan that feels that way after tonight's games
Well written article too, even if it was by a Palace fan
keaton
Big heart, hot blood and balls. Big balls
- Nov 18, 2004
- 9,972
That's wrong, we played them in 1991 in the (highly competitive) Zenith Systems Data Cup (quarter final I think). It was 0-0 after 90 minutes
Norman Potting
Well-known member
I stood in Ron Challis' kitchen once. I think I was 9.
GreersElbow
New member
That's a really good article, especially for a palace fan.
Brighton Breezy
New member
The Palace fan's blog is better than the article in The Times.
It strikes me that any idiot can get themselves quoted in the media these days talking something vaguely about football.