[Albion] Palace Fans Biggest Fear

[Uh_huh_him]

Your understanding of construction is completely wrong. The constructor is normally the last one appointed as they need to know what they are pricing and the client needs to know if they have enough money before appointing them.
I’m an estimator and work on projects for years before they get anywhere near construction. The current project I’m working on may go to tender next year for construction in 2027.

So does the estimator provide a guide price which the contractors have to commit to?
If so, I assume the tender process, is contractors explaining how they will meet the Spec, inside the price constraints?
Or is it more elaborate than that?

 

[Motogull]

The whole project is ill thought through, why would you do this before sorting the Arthur Waite? Buy the houses behind it as phase one and then create a better stand over there.

Keep up. Logic went out the window ages ago - it is Beaky's vanity project so his rules apply.

 

[Milano]

The whole project is ill thought through, why would you do this before sorting the Arthur Waite? Buy the houses behind it as phase one and then create a better stand over there.

I’m sure compulsory house purchases were affordable in somewhere like Anfield, but in south London (even the shit parts!) I’d imagine it’s a different story, especially when all you’re doing is demolishing them.
Also how much additional capacity to Palace realistically need?

 

[Uh_huh_him]

I’m sure compulsory house purchases were affordable in somewhere like Anfield, but in south London (even the shit parts!) I’d imagine it’s a different story, especially when all you’re doing is demolishing them.
Also how much additional capacity to Palace realistically need?

My guess is that they will be able to increase the revenue by offering a 1901 equivalent for a number of season ticket holders and some proper Corporate options too. The extra attendance will take Selhurst up to the same level as the Amex.
They will be able to sell those tickets (as long as they stay in the Prem)

They probably need to do this as a long term venture, but I can't see it making a significant impact on revenue, in comparison to the construction costs.

 

[Dibdab]

The whole project is ill thought through, why would you do this before sorting the Arthur Waite? Buy the houses behind it as phase one and then create a better stand over there.

Those houses would very difficult to buy. I don't think they are social housing so if people don't want to move they could delay the project or stop it. I think on that side of the ground they are stuck with the footprint they have,.

 

[Horses Arse]

So does the estimator provide a guide price which the contractors have to commit to?
If so, I assume the tender process, is contractors explaining how they will meet the Spec, inside the price constraints?
Or is it more elaborate than that?

Estimators/QSs provide cost advice to the client so that the business case is robust (supposedly), project can be afforded (yeah right), budget streams in place etc. Contractor then tenders and you find out how good the QS is and how good your designers are (eventually). Some QS's go for high etimates and you know what? Miraculously the contractors know and price around that level, who'd have thought.

The contrcator will then work the contract, pick holes in the design, shovel in variations and the cost goes up and programme extends. On a project like that there will be loads of risks, if they are all directed at the contractor the costs go sky high initially, if they are shared then the initial cost will be lower but the cost risk still remains.

There will will contingencies, some of these will be doubled up with moronic application of optimism bias yet the out-turn costs will still exceed the budget. Still contractors will lose money supposedly. The construction industry is an incredible world where supposedly everyone loses money but everything costs a fortune, and always more that you first thought.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

Estimators/QSs provide cost advice to the client so that the business case is robust (supposedly), project can be afforded (yeah right), budget streams in place etc. Contractor then tenders and you find out how good the QS is and how good your designers are (eventually). Some QS's go for high etimates and you know what? Miraculously the contractors know and price around that level, who'd have thought.

The contrcator will then work the contract, pick holes in the design, shovel in variations and the cost goes up and programme extends. On a project like that there will be loads of risks, if they are all directed at the contractor the costs go sky high initially, if they are shared then the initial cost will be lower but the cost risk still remains.

There will will contingencies, some of these will be doubled up with moronic application of optimism bias yet the out-turn costs will still exceed the budget. Still contractors will lose money supposedly. The construction industry is an incredible world where supposedly everyone loses money but everything costs a fortune, and always more that you first thought.

You forgot the part where the main contractor accepts the tender, then does everything he can to substitute 'equivalent' (ie cheaper) products for all manner of equipment specified in the N1.

 

[loz]

I’m sure compulsory house purchases were affordable in somewhere like Anfield, but in south London (even the shit parts!) I’d imagine it’s a different story, especially when all you’re doing is demolishing them.
Also how much additional capacity to Palace realistically need?

Price for a two bedroom terrace is in excess of £475K on the Holmesdale road

 

[Baldseagull]

Some contractors have been known to spot impossibilities in the spec, e.g. dimensions that do not add up, and cut the quote to the bone, knowing there will be a bonanza in variation orders.

 

[Tim Over Whelmed]

Keep up. Logic went out the window ages ago - it is Beaky's vanity project so his rules apply.

Good point, what was I thinking

 

[Tim Over Whelmed]

Price for a two bedroom terrace is in excess of £475K on the Holmesdale road

... and there's about forty of them, say £530k on compulsory purchase, that's about £20m, but a huge area to develop?

 

[Change at Barnham]

Edit: I just realised you are talking about the properties behind the Arthur Waite, not the 6 houses that have already been purchased to build the new stand..

 

[loz]

... and there's about forty of them, say £530k on compulsory purchase, that's about £20m, but a huge area to develop?

The fact some of you think it’s a shitty area with prices like that must mean most of you must live down How brow hill or woodland drive. When the football is not on it’s a quite suburban area next to 3 train stations with direct links to the city…it ain’t what it used to be.

Going back to the Arthur Waite stand the foot print is actually quite large it’s just quite shallow.

 

[Mancgull]

It is going to be an expensive project. It makes £93m for the whole of the Amex look good value. Only 12 years since it was completed. Shows how the cost of raw materials and general build costs have spiralled.

 

[Tim Over Whelmed]

The fact some of you think it’s a shitty area with prices like that must mean most of you must live down How brow hill or woodland drive. When the football is not on it’s a quite suburban area next to 3 train stations with direct links to the city…it ain’t what it used to be.

Going back to the Arthur Waite stand the foot print is actually quite large it’s just quite shallow.

Took the figure from someone that said there were properties advertised at £450k, so I just added a compulsory purchase %, to be honest I have no idea of the value of properties in the area. My point really is why change a stand that seems to work when the AW seems more in need of an upgrade?

 

[loz]

Took the figure from someone that said there were properties advertised at £450k, so I just added a compulsory purchase %, to be honest I have no idea of the value of properties in the area. My point really is why change a stand that seems to work when the AW seems more in need of an upgrade?

I don’t know so just guessing but.

The old stand is really the front of the stadium it’s 100 years old, so I guess the club feels it would be the better investment being the car park is there so if going for the corporate customers it’s the better choice. Not only that the players lounges and changing rooms are in that stand.

I haven’t been in the Arthur Waite stand since they went all seater so personally have no idea what it’s like, but being built in 1969 I would have thought it was built for those times when the bottom half we standing and the top have was seating. But I know Palace fans that sit there and talk about “wading in piss” when going to the loos.

 

[Tim Over Whelmed]

I don’t know so just guessing but.

The old stand is really the front of the stadium it’s 100 years old, so I guess the club feels it would be the better investment being the car park is there so if going for the corporate customers it’s the better choice. Not only that the players lounges and changing rooms are in that stand.

I haven’t been in the Arthur Waite stand since they went all seater so personally have no idea what it’s like, but being built in 1969 I would have thought it was built for those times when the bottom half we standing and the top have was seating. But I know Palace fans that sit there and talk about “wading in piss” when going to the loos.

Yes, it's not great in there but understand what you're saying about lounges etc. As has been said our £93m seems a great spend now, but we live in different times and building from scratch on a new site is always going to be cheaper than modernising in a built up area from an existing structure. Hey ho, when it arrives you'll have a shiny new stand and the AW opposite, let's hope all the season ticket holders in the AW don't move, en masse, into the new stand leaving you a white elephant!

 

[Whitley Bayster]

I don’t know so just guessing but.

The old stand is really the front of the stadium it’s 100 years old, so I guess the club feels it would be the better investment being the car park is there so if going for the corporate customers it’s the better choice. Not only that the players lounges and changing rooms are in that stand.

I haven’t been in the Arthur Waite stand since they went all seater so personally have no idea what it’s like, but being built in 1969 I would have thought it was built for those times when the bottom half we standing and the top have was seating. But I know Palace fans that sit there and talk about “wading in piss” when going to the loos.

Thats the way they like it, they like it, they like it ....whooooaah wooo ....wading in piss, wading in piss

 

[Tim Over Whelmed]

Thats the way they like it, they like it, they like it ....whooooaah wooo ....wading in piss, wading in piss

Whenever anyone talks about awful toilets my mind takes me to Brisbane Road back in the day, bloody horrible gutters to pee in

 

[Whitley Bayster]

Whenever anyone talks about awful toilets my mind takes me to Brisbane Road back in the day, bloody horrible gutters to pee in

The Goldstone's North Stand "urinals" were basically open gutters and and pretty fragrant. A legacy of older grounds. I think the remaining ones should be listed so they are protected for prosperity. A reminder to the younger generations of what they are missing