[Albion] P$$s Poor Again at home! No PASSION!

[Weststander]

Yes, for me that's a tactic that can really work as well. The modern version is probably 4-2-3-1.

You need the players to be able to carry it off but it's a very effective way to play if you have them. Southgate has used it a lot for England but, at times, used it far too conservatively (but other times effectively).

Cast your mind back to the home game with Watford (that we won). Biss and Lallana were playing in this sort of way and bossed the game, even though I prefer Lallana as an 8 or 10.

Would love to know what Potter thinks about that formation.

He’s a closed book with an array of top secret formations that sometimes throw opposition managers, ever the innovator.

Whilst some other managers/clubs seem to have a favourite team framework, the personnel might change, it’s well known, but despite that they accumulate EPL wins.

 

[Codner's Wallop]

GPs squad is better than the one CH had, agree with that. But the current squad is also overrated by a lot of Brighton fans. At best it is a mid-table squad. If we use Jakub Moder as an example.. people here drool over him. But you really think any other PL team in the league is watching Moder and thinking "wow, we really need this guy"? Or Veltman for that matter... good player for sure, but there's 500 good players in the Premier League. It is a talented team, only two teams in the top 10 has younger teams, but quality wise its a team that should end up somewhere around 13-15 (whereas Hughtons Brighton probably "should" have been relegated).

What is most alarming is the wild inconsistency among our first team squad.

At times players like Veltman, Webster and Cucurella look top half PL stock. At other times they wouldn’t look out of place in a lower half championship side.

This disease seems to affect most of the squad - and that makes me believe Potter is failing to consistently motivate the players - or his tactics are either confusing or ineffective. Take your pick.

 

[Swansman]

What is most alarming is the wild inconsistency among our first team squad.

At times players like Veltman, Webster and Cucurella look top half PL stock. At other times they wouldn’t look out of place in a lower half championship side.

This disease seems to affect most of the squad - and that makes me believe Potter is failing to consistently motivate the players - or his tactics are either confusing or ineffective. Take your pick.

I'll pick the "there's good players in every team and every team wins and lose games regardless of manager" option.

 

[DarrenFreemansPerm]

Yes, for me that's a tactic that can really work as well. The modern version is probably 4-2-3-1.

You need the players to be able to carry it off but it's a very effective way to play if you have them. Southgate has used it a lot for England but, at times, used it far too conservatively (but other times effectively).

Cast your mind back to the home game with Watford (that we won). Biss and Lallana were playing in this sort of way and bossed the game, even though I prefer Lallana as an 8 or 10.

For me the 2 holding mids works very well IF at least one of them is looking to carry the ball forward, if one is a carrier and the other holds that’s fine, ideally both can drive with the ball which makes it harder for the opposition to defend as they don’t know which one will trigger a move. Bissouma made one (?) forward run today which is poor, Ali Mac could be seen dropping back near Bissouma but would largely do the same thing as Biss, which was to receive the ball and slowly shuffle it off to an isolated full back.

 

[DarrenFreemansPerm]

Whilst he’s an utterly unpredictable berserker we do seem to miss Mwepu’s energy in the middle.

 

[Stat Brother]

Whilst he’s an utterly unpredictable berserker we do seem to miss Mwepu’s energy in the middle.

Sadly I'll hazard a guess were he fit he'd also be regressing off a cliff just like 95% of his teammates.

 

[TheOnionBag]

So poor today. I think Potter is a nice bloke and obviously a good coach but he lacks the passion of a top manager. Watched him for 10 mins near the end because the game was so dull. He just stood there with his hands in his pockets mostly and on occasion with his arms folded. 1 sub today was truly baffling. What was the point in bringing Caicedo back if he wasn't going to play him? Not the first time this season that the usual pattern of passing between defenders and goalkeeper wasn't working so why not develop a plan B? Knock it long a few times and get the ball in the box earlier and for god sake shoot occasionally!

 

[pure_white]

We attack via width and if we cant get the wingbacks forward like against Burnley we are stuffed (also predictable easy to defend against). Cant lob ball over and run on....cant go through middle....cant pump it up to big fella upfront to hold and distribute...then when we do cross the ball we cant finish. Fix it by:
Getting a striker that scores
And/or play all the football above we fail to

 

[Weststander]

We attack via width and if we cant get the wingbacks forward like against Burnley we are stuffed (also predictable easy to defend against). Cant lob ball over and run on....cant go through middle....cant pump it up to big fella upfront to hold and distribute...then when we do cross the ball we cant finish. Fix it by:
Getting a striker that scores
And/or play all the football above we fail to

When Villa beat us at home, Gerrard said their tactics were to send us down col du sacs on the wings, we did, he said it worked a treat.

So predictable.

 

[Hamilton]

I was more amazed at the empty seats in the stadium.


P$$s Poor, in the Premier League.

I was more amazed there weren’t more empty seats. Can I have my money back? Only that was shockingly shite.

Something is wrong in all their heads. Since the whole Ashworth/Burn saga something seems to have sapped belief from the team.

They are just going through the motions - the wrong ones.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[One Love]

Whilst he’s an utterly unpredictable berserker we do seem to miss Mwepu’s energy in the middle.

Are you playing the old, we miss player x and he's the answer because he's been injured all the time we've been playing sh, card?

 

[Justice]

Short term we are on the receiving end of criminally failing to replace Burn with either a new CB, recalling a CB or promoting one of our huge stock of development CBs. We don't have an option to play 3/5 at the back and both Lamptey and Cucurella are too deep. Veltman is good in a three or as a right back but is never a CB in a 2 CBs in a back four set up. He had Watkins read a few times today but ultimately made the mistake that lost the game.

With Cucu and Lamps pushed back we have no attacking pace. Then the opposition just needs to cut off Maupay and job done.

Long term we have an even bigger issue. The stats don't lie.

Hughton had 38 home PL games winning 13 (win ratio 34%) and scoring 43 at 1.13 goals per game. Potter's had 51, won 12 and scored 52 for a home win percentage of 23% and goals of 1.01 per game.

We win less and score fewer at home under Potter with a better side. That's a trend with over two years of data per coach. I go to football to jump up and celebrate a goal and I go much more to home games (though I do go away) as do most. The risk is this current pile of centre back induced crap is happening just as people are being asked to renew, with a backdrop of never having been that good at home under GP.

Yes we are still 10th. Yes Potter is better away. Yes Potter has a go against the bigger teams. But goals and wins at home are what keeps the majority of fans happy, not nice little 10 yard passes. We have no pace, no finishing and lots of meaningless possession and eventually this will catch up with us.

We have been unlucky with injury and Covid though. We very rarely seem to use the same players two games running.

Take away the lucky last minute goals and half the draws and we are smack bang in the middle of a relegation battle, we’ve beaten a few bottom half teams luckily two twice. No difference to last season or the one before that.

There Is no player worth the admission fee alone to entertain the Amex faithful on a Saturday. Some of Potters decisions well it’s insane if he thinks March will dig him out of a hole in a PL game and to sacrifice Cucurella’s forward runs to accommodate him is even more insane.

 

[The Fits]

Take away the lucky last minute goals and half the draws and we are smack bang in the middle of a relegation battle, we’ve beaten a few bottom half teams luckily two twice. No difference to last season or the one before that.

There Is no player worth the admission fee alone to entertain the Amex faithful on a Saturday. Some of Potters decisions well it’s insane if he thinks March will dig him out of a hole in a PL game and to sacrifice Cucurella’s forward runs to accommodate him is even more insane.

If Burn is still here March doesn’t play. This is my mine gripe. Every time Potter seems to be getting somewhere the suits making the transfer decisions do odd things- not signing players in positions we are short, selling an in form player, signing players and loaning them out. Signing a striker and loaning them straight back to the club we’ve just signed them from!
Sometimes it just feels a bit like Potter is saying ‘what exactly are you expecting me to do with this?’.

 

[sydney]

goals and wins at home are what keeps the majority of fans happy, not nice little 10 yard passes. We have no pace, no finishing and lots of meaningless possession and eventually this will catch up with us.

.

pretty much this , we are also infuriatingly naive at times and i must admit i was expecting to see a back 4 with dunk and duffy but a back 3 with cucurella....?? irritating as unfortunately a lot of my mates support villa and they'll all be lining up for their pints tomorrow.

 

[Guinness Boy]

Take away the lucky last minute goals and half the draws and we are smack bang in the middle of a relegation battle, we’ve beaten a few bottom half teams luckily two twice. No difference to last season or the one before that.

There Is no player worth the admission fee alone to entertain the Amex faithful on a Saturday. Some of Potters decisions well it’s insane if he thinks March will dig him out of a hole in a PL game and to sacrifice Cucurella’s forward runs to accommodate him is even more insane.

pretty much this , we are also infuriatingly naive at times and i must admit i was expecting to see a back 4 with dunk and duffy but a back 3 with cucurella....?? irritating as unfortunately a lot of my mates support villa and they'll all be lining up for their pints tomorrow.

Firstly, let's deal with that "Cucurella in a back three" one final time, because he wasn't. Here is the side by side positioning.



Cucurella's average position is wider than Cash who is playing right back. It's an authentic left back position and therefore not part of a conventional back three, which to me means three centre backs. Veltman is also too wide but more in line with Mings than Digne. March, meanwhile, is playing "number 10" and is nowhere near where the BBC graphic, that I suspect you've both checked, has him playing.

In fact [MENTION=21158]Weststander[/MENTION] has already pointed out the flaw in our tactics and how Gerrard easily overcame them. Villa are much more compact. They've mostly ceded width (though if you look, Digne is pushed up on Lamptey, cutting his ability to use his pace) knowing we can't convert crosses from open play very often, and have pace and skill centrally to expose the huge gap between Dunk and Veltman.

The reason that we're even having this debate is because Veltman is terrible at playing in a conventional centre back pairing and his average position is where he should be in a back three / five, where he's better.

The more you look at those two diagrams, the more you see that Stevie G has done a very basic number on us. The same one that almost every visiting manager has, sit compact and hit on the break. With good finishers and more pace in his side he's done it remarkably effectively.

The irony will be that when we play Liverpool at home this will look different and we probably have more of a chance. They have their own way of playing and there is potential for Lamptey to get behind their advancing full backs. This is why Potter is still lauded by so many - because as bad as his tactics are against average compact sides at home, they are great away and against teams who have a go.

 

[DarrenFreemansPerm]

Are you playing the old, we miss player x and he's the answer because he's been injured all the time we've been playing sh, card?

Not intentionally, but it’s very apparent that we don’t have a central midfield currently and Mwepu can cover a lot of ground in the middle. It would be nice to have at least one player who resembled a CM.

 

[sydney]

Firstly, let's deal with that "Cucurella in a back three" one final time, because he wasn't. Here is the side by side positioning.

View attachment 145543

Cucurella's average position is wider than Cash who is playing right back. It's an authentic left back position and therefore not part of a conventional back three, which to me means three centre backs. Veltman is also too wide but more in line with Mings than Digne. March, meanwhile, is playing "number 10" and is nowhere near where the BBC graphic, that I suspect you've both checked, has him playing.

In fact [MENTION=21158]Weststander[/MENTION] has already pointed out the flaw in our tactics and how Gerrard easily overcame them. Villa are much more compact. They've mostly ceded width (though if you look, Digne is pushed up on Lamptey, cutting his ability to use his pace) knowing we can't convert crosses from open play very often, and have pace and skill centrally to expose the huge gap between Dunk and Veltman.

The reason that we're even having this debate is because Veltman is terrible at playing in a conventional centre back pairing and his average position is where he should be in a back three / five, where he's better.

The more you look at those two diagrams, the more you see that Stevie G has done a very basic number on us. The same one that almost every visiting manager has, sit compact and hit on the break. With good finishers and more pace in his side he's done it remarkably effectively.

The irony will be that when we play Liverpool at home this will look different and we probably have more of a chance. They have their own way of playing and there is potential for Lamptey to get behind their advancing full backs. This is why Potter is still lauded by so many - because as bad as his tactics are against average compact sides at home, they are great away and against teams who have a go.

a wide centre back @ +- 5ft 10 inches playing wider than their left overlap.... ok ...

 

[Clive Walker]

That was utterly depressing

Atmosphere was appalling and a symptom of what is being offered up. It’s actually embarrassing.

Can we also get rid of fanzone it’s so cringey.

 

[goldstone]

I thought it was a back with Cucu and Lamptey as full backs. It doesn't work. We are much better with a back 3 allowing the wing backs to rampage forward. If it was a back 3 with Cucu in the left centre back role it still doesn't work. He is absolutely not a centre back and never will be

I thought we were playing a back three for most of the game, but absolutely agree that on that showing Cucurella absolutely is not a CB. Cannot understand why Duffy didn't play. Yes he was crap against against Burnley, but him partnering Dunk and Veltman in a back three would have been a lot better than what we had on the pitch yesterday.

The reason Lamptey didn't get forward as much as usual was, I'm sure, due to a lack of confidence in the CBs to cover for him. Frustrating.

And where was Lallana?

 

[Guinness Boy]

a wide centre back @ +- 5ft 10 inches playing wider than their left overlap.... ok ...

Nope.

As I pointed out to [MENTION=4667]Munkfish[/MENTION] these are the actual average positions taken from player GPS. March is playing just behind Maupay and there is no left wing back in front of Cucurella. When I played centre back if I'd have been that wide consistently I would have been hooked. Potter made no substitutions other than Welbeck. He was clearly happy about where our defenders were positioned, despite the massive gaps.

A proper 3 CB / 2WB gives no space up the middle and allows the wide players to attack and defend. We basically parted the red sea in the middle, while they allowed Lamptey to have our own half and their corner flag but not the space in between.

Gerrard 1 - 0 Potter