[Albion] P$$s Poor Again at home! No PASSION!

[Codner's Wallop]

Short term we are on the receiving end of criminally failing to replace Burn with either a new CB, recalling a CB or promoting one of our huge stock of development CBs. We don't have an option to play 3/5 at the back and both Lamptey and Cucurella are too deep. Veltman is good in a three or as a right back but is never a CB in a 2 CBs in a back four set up. He had Watkins read a few times today but ultimately made the mistake that lost the game.

With Cucu and Lamps pushed back we have no attacking pace. Then the opposition just needs to cut off Maupay and job done.

Long term we have an even bigger issue. The stats don't lie.

Hughton had 38 home PL games winning 13 (win ratio 34%) and scoring 43 at 1.13 goals per game. Potter's had 51, won 12 and scored 52 for a home win percentage of 23% and goals of 1.01 per game.

We win less and score fewer at home under Potter with a better side. That's a trend with over two years of data per coach. I go to football to jump up and celebrate a goal and I go much more to home games (though I do go away) as do most. The risk is this current pile of centre back induced crap is happening just as people are being asked to renew, with a backdrop of never having been that good at home under GP.

Yes we are still 10th. Yes Potter is better away. Yes Potter has a go against the bigger teams. But goals and wins at home are what keeps the majority of fans happy, not nice little 10 yard passes. We have no pace, no finishing and lots of meaningless possession and eventually this will catch up with us.

We have been unlucky with injury and Covid though. We very rarely seem to use the same players two games running.

With absolute respect, comparing Potter and Hughton’s Albion win-loss record is senseless,

In my opinion, Hughton was without doubt a better pound for pound manager - even though his stats were poorer than Potter.

For the best part of his PL tenure, Hughton had two consistent PL class players in Dunk and Murray (Biss wasn’t fully established). Potter on the other hand has more like seven or eight (Biss, Trossard, Lamptey, Dunk, Sanchez, Webster, Veltman, Cuccarella etc). It’s apples and pears and a reason why I always feel Potter’s achievements are falsely elevated, while Hughton’s are often downplayed….

 

[Swansman]

Short term we are on the receiving end of criminally failing to replace Burn with either a new CB, recalling a CB or promoting one of our huge stock of development CBs. We don't have an option to play 3/5 at the back and both Lamptey and Cucurella are too deep. Veltman is good in a three or as a right back but is never a CB in a 2 CBs in a back four set up. He had Watkins read a few times today but ultimately made the mistake that lost the game.

With Cucu and Lamps pushed back we have no attacking pace. Then the opposition just needs to cut off Maupay and job done.

Long term we have an even bigger issue. The stats don't lie.

Hughton had 38 home PL games winning 13 (win ratio 34%) and scoring 43 at 1.13 goals per game. Potter's had 51, won 12 and scored 52 for a home win percentage of 23% and goals of 1.01 per game.

We win less and score fewer at home under Potter with a better side. That's a trend with over two years of data per coach. I go to football to jump up and celebrate a goal and I go much more to home games (though I do go away) as do most. The risk is this current pile of centre back induced crap is happening just as people are being asked to renew, with a backdrop of never having been that good at home under GP.

Yes we are still 10th. Yes Potter is better away. Yes Potter has a go against the bigger teams. But goals and wins at home are what keeps the majority of fans happy, not nice little 10 yard passes. We have no pace, no finishing and lots of meaningless possession and eventually this will catch up with us.

We have been unlucky with injury and Covid though. We very rarely seem to use the same players two games running.

You didnt go to 23 of GPs home games though. During the pandemic, the win rate in the PL was higher away than home, proving that literally the whole "home advantage" thing is based on the fans being there... which they werent for 23 out of those 51 games.

 

[Guinness Boy]

With absolute respect, comparing Potter and Hughton’s Albion win-loss record is senseless,

In my opinion, Hughton was without doubt a better pound for pound manager - even though his stats were poorer than Potter.

For the best part of his PL tenure, Hughton had two consistent PL class players in Dunk and Murray. Potter on the other hand has more like seven or eight (Biss, Trossard, Lamptey, Dunk, Sanchez, Webster, Veltman, Cuccarella etc). It’s apples and pears and a reason why I always feel Potter’s achievements are falsely elevated, while Hughton’s are often downplayed….

With respect I don't disagree with much of that.

The stats I posted show, for absolute sure, that we have been worse in front of our own fans under Potter with (I agree) a far better squad. The thread title is all about being poor at home. We are. The stats bear that out and that's why I used them.

I totally agree with the bolded bit.

But, because of the above, Potter simply has to have a better away record and he also tends to do better against the big six. It's not balanced to not mention that.

 

[brighton_tom]

We look way too vulnerable with just Veltman and Dunk at CB. Bring back BDB!

 

[Guinness Boy]

You didnt go to 23 of GPs home games though. During the pandemic, the win rate in the PL was higher away than home, proving that literally the whole "home advantage" thing is based on the fans being there... which they werent for 23 out of those 51 games.

This season, with full crowds, we've won 3 out of 13 and scored 10 times.

The win ratio is slightly below the total games (23% dead versus 23.5%) and we've scored fewer goals per game.

So with the most up to date squad and crowds returned, Potter's wins and goals stats are worse.

Up to the last three games, however, we'd made a great virtue of not losing and therefore looked pretty decent in the overall league table.

 

[HalfaSeatOn]

Poor in every department of game. Dunk only positive. Midfield is really p***ing me off.

 

[Munkfish]

No. No we didn't

https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/1...Premier-League-2021-2022-Brighton-Aston-Villa

View attachment 145526

Two centre backs. Lamptey pushed up a little more than I remembered, but he should do with his pace. Had very little ahead of him though and Cucurella deeper (too deep).

Back four with one higher pushed full back and one sitting back (and, to boot, the wide players isolated so that we were good at getting it wide but not much else).

It was a back 3 of Dunk, Veltman and cucarella. He might have pushed on a little further but ultimately it was a back 3 with wing backs.

 

[Guinness Boy]

This looks far more secure to me, three defenders on average closer together. Ramsey and McGinn shielding.

We always look vulnerable to the counter, to one stray pass gifting the opposition a goal.

It’s not as if high-stake ‘rock n roll’ football that’s reaping a stack of goals at the other end.
View attachment 145527

Yep. Villa looked more compact.

And, as I've posted on previous post home game threads, I don't see the point of getting it wide and crossing it with just Maupay to aim for. It's not like we've got a Chris Wood in the squad (or a Glenn Murray).

 

[Codner's Wallop]

With respect I don't disagree with much of that.

The stats I posted show, for absolute sure, that we have been worse in front of our own fans under Potter with (I agree) a far better squad. The thread title is all about being poor at home. We are. The stats bear that out and that's why I used them.

I totally agree with the bolded bit.

But, because of the above, Potter simply has to have a better away record and he also tends to do better against the big six. It's not balanced to not mention that.

Yes fair enough. If just riles me when I often read about Potter’s ‘genius’ when people fail to mention the quality of the squad at his disposal.

He is clearly a very solid PL manager but for me the genius come from the Albion recruitment team. We have players who are the envy of leading PL clubs.

To compare Hughton’s resources with Potter’s squad is like comparing two F1 drivers - one in a works Ferrari and the other in a standard Ford Escort…

 

[Guinness Boy]

It was a back 3 of Dunk, Veltman and cucarella. He might have pushed on a little further but ultimately it was a back 3 with wing backs.

If Cucurella is playing centre back he needs shooting. No centre back should be that wide consistently. If he's playing wing back then it's a back 2 and he's not high enough.

If you think Cucu's playing CB who is playing LWB, because Trossard is too high and narrow?

 

[Guinness Boy]

Yes fair enough. If just riles me when I often read about Potter’s ‘genius’ when people fail to mention the quality of the squad at his disposal.

He is clearly a very solid PL manager but for me the genius come from the Albion recruitment team. We have players who are the envy of leading PL clubs.

To compare Hughton’s resources with Potter’s squad is like comparing two F1 drivers - one in a works Ferrari and the other in a standard Ford Escort…

Yep. Been saying the same for ages.

 

[DarrenFreemansPerm]

Poor in every department of game. Dunk only positive. Midfield is really p***ing me off.

We don’t actually seem to have a central midfield? We have Bissouma hovering around just ahead of the centre backs, then a smattering of slow yet technically sound players dotted around the periphery of the middle of the park, there’s **** all in the middle. Terrible.

 

[Weststander]

Yep. Villa looked more compact.

And, as I've posted on previous post home game threads, I don't see the point of getting it wide and crossing it with just Maupay to aim for. It's not like we've got a Chris Wood in the squad (or a Glenn Murray).

I know you look at tactics.

I’ve always liked the concept against better/equal opposition of the equivalent of two sitters when we lose or don’t have the ball. The old 4 and 6.

Ramsey/McGinn today, Henderson/Fabinho, Kante/Jorginho, it works. A great insurance policy.

From memory, most other nsc’ers hate it, seeing it as negative Hughton-esque, wanting to see everyone in gung-ho attacking.

To me it leaves our forwards plus wing or full backs free to attack at will.

 

[DarrenFreemansPerm]

If Cucurella is playing centre back he needs shooting. No centre back should be that wide consistently. If he's playing wing back then it's a back 2 and he's not high enough.

If you think Cucu's playing CB who is playing LWB, because Trossard is too high and narrow?

At times March was LWB today as we fleetingly went to a 3, but it was predominantly a back 2 which severely limits Cucurella and Lamptey’s ability to impact the game. The whole squad seems terribly imbalanced right now, we have a disgusting lack of pace, centre backs, centre mids, wingers and strikers. I get that the club’s method is to buy all of this talent and nurture it but we really do need to buy some actual ready to go first team players from time to time.

 

[Seagull58]

I thought it was a back with Cucu and Lamptey as full backs. It doesn't work. We are much better with a back 3 allowing the wing backs to rampage forward. If it was a back 3 with Cucu in the left centre back role it still doesn't work. He is absolutely not a centre back and never will be

 

[Guinness Boy]

I know you often look at tactics.

I’ve always liked the concept against better/equal opposition of the equivalent of two sitters when we lose or don’t have the ball. The old 4 and 6.

Ramsey/McGinn today, Henderson/Fabinho, Kante/Jorginho, it works. A great insurance policy.

From memory, most other nsc’ers hate it, seeing it as negative Hughton-esque, wanting to see everyone in gung-ho attacking.

To me it leaves our forwards plus wing or full backs to attack at will.

Yes, for me that's a tactic that can really work as well. The modern version is probably 4-2-3-1.

You need the players to be able to carry it off but it's a very effective way to play if you have them. Southgate has used it a lot for England but, at times, used it far too conservatively (but other times effectively).

Cast your mind back to the home game with Watford (that we won). Biss and Lallana were playing in this sort of way and bossed the game, even though I prefer Lallana as an 8 or 10.

 

[Acker79]

I think what irritates me the most was we lost 3-0 to the team who were bottom 3 (bottom of the table?) before facing us with a terrible performance. Where was the bounce back? Where was the reaction? It brought back memories of that lose 5-0 to bournemouth, follow it up with a limp 2-0 loss to Cardiff that did Hughton in. Obviously I'm not suggesting it's the end for Potter, that would be silly. Just it was evocative of that 'bad performance/result last week, let's see a reaction/make it up to the fans/prove it was a freak... nope, just coast to another loss' pattern.

 

[Swansman]

Yes fair enough. If just riles me when I often read about Potter’s ‘genius’ when people fail to mention the quality of the squad at his disposal.

He is clearly a very solid PL manager but for me the genius come from the Albion recruitment team. We have players who are the envy of leading PL clubs.

To compare Hughton’s resources with Potter’s squad is like comparing two F1 drivers - one in a works Ferrari and the other in a standard Ford Escort…

GPs squad is better than the one CH had, agree with that. But the current squad is also overrated by a lot of Brighton fans. At best it is a mid-table squad. If we use Jakub Moder as an example.. people here drool over him. But you really think any other PL team in the league is watching Moder and thinking "wow, we really need this guy"? Or Veltman for that matter... good player for sure, but there's 500 good players in the Premier League. It is a talented team, only two teams in the top 10 has younger teams, but quality wise its a team that should end up somewhere around 13-15 (whereas Hughtons Brighton probably "should" have been relegated).

 

[Seagull58]

I think what irritates me the most was we lost 3-0 to the team who were bottom 3 (bottom of the table?) before facing us with a terrible performance. Where was the bounce back? Where was the reaction? It brought back memories of that lose 5-0 to bournemouth, follow it up with a limp 2-0 loss to Cardiff that did Hughton in. Obviously I'm not suggesting it's the end for Potter, that would be silly. Just it was evocative of that 'bad performance/result last week, let's see a reaction/make it up to the fans/prove it was a freak... nope, just coast to another loss' pattern.

Leeds don't do bounce backs either.

 

[HalfaSeatOn]

We don’t actually seem to have a central midfield? We have Bissouma hovering around just ahead of the centre backs, then a smattering of slow yet technically sound players dotted around the periphery of the middle of the park, there’s **** all in the middle. Terrible.

Agree. Just no engine room that consistently drives us forward. I’d give players on the bench a chance to impress