[Politics] Owen Jones

[Colonel Mustard]

I get all that, but I just still find it self-indulgent that he feels the need to make SO much out of it (the video and other appearances, in addition to the piece in the paper). The journalist (not to be confused with their opinions) should never be the story - especially if they are writing about themselves.

I'm not going out of my way to defend him as I find him a bit annoying. But in the social media age, that’s how plenty of people make a living. If he was a photographer or chef, he might have a YouTube channel on those topics. But he’s a political journalist so that’s what he has a channel about. As a freelancer, I guess he wants to have a spread of income streams. Even socialists need to look after the bottom line.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Sure, opinions about everything else, but not himself and his decision to leave the Labour party – and that's LITERALLY the story here.

From my limited experience of Jones, it's clear he's not a fan of Starmer and hasn't been for some time. So the fact that he has left the party that Starmer leads isn't exactly earth-shattering. As I said originally, I struggle to see why anyone would give a shite, but have since realised that he's essentially just a grifter who benefits from the whole 'divide and conquer' approach where every opinion has to be black or white, with no room for nuanced, balanced and reasonable debate in-between.

Good luck to him – and all who support and hate him – but I still can't see the appeal of going all in on something that is, in the grand scheme of things, really facking trivial.

He may influence 200,000 votes in the GE. That's what? 1% per constituency? It may fill the Macarana stadium but it won't win a seat.

The puffed-up twat.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

I'm not going out of my way to defend him as I find him a bit annoying. But in the social media age, that’s how plenty of people make a living. If he was a photographer or chef, he might have a YouTube channel on those topics. But he’s a political journalist so that’s what he has a channel about. As a freelancer, I guess he wants to have a spread of income streams. Even socialists need to look after the bottom line.

Socialists you say?

He's a 110% capitalist, with the pound in his pocket his main interest.

And possibly bitcoin.

 

[Colonel Mustard]

But not actual Momentum, I hope

Look, none of us know what Starmzy will be like. We can only guess and I'm bored with that.

Before Blair got in he was painted as weak Bambi, in thrall to the unions and the looney left.

Turns out that not being a **** and largely going with what you think is right rather than what may be gammon-proof is nearly all of what is required.

A PM can't act like a dictator, and it is a lot about who on his own side he can work with and who he can safely put on ignore. Looks like this Owen twit has saved Starmer the trouble of defenestrating him.

That’s not my recollection at all. He cosied up to Murdoch and got The Sun on his side. I didn’t blame him. Thought it rather astute, in fact. He even had Thatcher offering guarded praise. Hence New Labour rather than same old Labour.

I understand the game Starmer’s playing but he has to be careful. Focus groups consistently find themselves incapable of stating a single policy associated with Labour, and while they want rid of the Tories they express little enthusiasm for Labour. The polls we see show voting intention, not level of enthusiasm for a party.

Labour are obviously clear favourites to win this year’s election but I’d urge people not to be complacent. Some of us remember Kinnock in 1992. it’s still Starmer’s to lose but there plenty of banana skins out there. In particular I’m thinking of the televised leaders' debates. Remember how they catapulted Nick Clegg into being deputy PM in the hung parliament of 2010? They didn’t improve Miliband's image in 2015. Perhaps worst of all was Theresa May in 2017. She was predicted to win by a landslide at the start of that campaign but flopped hopelessly in TV interviews. Starmer’s advisors will obviously know all this, and will have learnt from it. But they have to be careful. The main thing he has in his favour is that for many people, they’ve no real alternative to voting Labour. Reform to the right and the Greens/Lib Dems (both now to the left of Labour). Luckily for Labour, none of them come across as parties fit for government.

 

[jcdenton08]

People like Owen Jones would seemingly prefer Labour never to be elected. They don't seem to understand that the majority of Brits are broadly Centrist - some a little to the left, some a little to the right. Most of us want a fairer society than we have currently, but are still very much in favour of incentivising enterprise, etc, etc.

Blair got it, and Starmer seems to get it. Owen Jones and his ilk would rather seethe and moan from the far left, undermining the valiant efforts of centre-left politicians, and leaving the door open for loonies like Farage and Rees-Mogg.

Absolutely 100% this.

 

[Colonel Mustard]

Yes we do. He has a political record now as an MP and party leader (and in public life earlier than that) that you can study and make very reasonable assessments about how he will behave in power

But he’s been all over the place through his political career. No one knows what he’s about. Remember the platform he stood on to be elected as leader? He’s renounced nearly all of it. And despite his promise to embrace all sides of the party, he’s actually been pretty ruthless in removing or silencing those on the left in the party. I’m not saying I don’t understand why he’s done this. But he’s an extremely unreliable character IMO.

 

[jcdenton08]

This is just another very good piece of news for Labour, regardless of my feelings about Owen Jones. Starmer will not care a jot.

 

[Ike and Tina Burner]

I have only ever voted Labour. My Mum and Dad have only ever voted labour. My Dad's dad was a card holding member of the labour party. I actually still have his membership booklet somewhere from about 90 years ago.

With that being said I despise the way a certain section of the left is. They want to be noble losers in my opinion. Always moving further and further to the left so that they're never in the mainstream. They view themselves as resistance fighters but have no real ambition to ever win because they like that sense of identity too much.

They don't want power or to actually do anything. They want to hold their hands up in the air and complain that everyone else is too thick or racist to agree with them. They hate someone flawed but reasonable like Keir Starmer even more because it proves how left wing they are. Hating him like he's a cross burning neo Nazi also allows them to keep fighting for the cause.

If this Labour do get in I don't think there's anyway they could realistically placate these type people. The goalposts will keep moving and moving. If they fix the railways it'll be "they're still too expensive". If they make them cheaper it'll be "they're not free". If they make them free it'll be something else and so on and so on.

I don't actually think of Owen Jones as one of these people. I do however think he plays to them because that's where the fame and attention is. They're by nature obsessed by politics and therefore the most valuable followers on the left. If he took less radical views he'd get a tenth of the engagement. I don't resent him for leaving. But I do wish he'd given Starmer a chance with some power. However it sort of proves my previous points that he didn't.

 

[Greg Bobkin]

I don't think you watched the video - be honest

Of course I haven't. Why would I?

 

[Greg Bobkin]

He may influence 200,000 votes in the GE. That's what? 1% per constituency? It may fill the Macarana stadium but it won't win a seat.

The puffed-up twat.

Again, pure ego. Which is why I would be a shite columnist

 

[hans kraay fan club]

To be honest, I tend to get mixed up between Owen Jones and Mark Goldbridge - smug grifters churning out self-important shrieking content to their internet echo chambers.

 

[Exilegull]

How dead is democracy when this lad gets a ton of shit for daring to dream bigger than just not being the Tories

 

[hans kraay fan club]

How dead is democracy when this lad gets a ton of shit for daring to dream bigger than just not being the Tories

In (our current) real world, with FPTP, there is no room for such 'dreaming'. It simply doesn't work like that.

'Just not the Tories' is in reality EXACTLY what he should be focusing his energies on, at this time. Once this poisonous government is removed, he can then use his platform to seek to influence the route of the new government, in the direction he 'dreams' of.

Taking a stance in opposition to the Labour leadership at this time, is effectively supporting the Tory government.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

But he’s been all over the place through his political career. No one knows what he’s about. Remember the platform he stood on to be elected as leader? He’s renounced nearly all of it. And despite his promise to embrace all sides of the party, he’s actually been pretty ruthless in removing or silencing those on the left in the party. I’m not saying I don’t understand why he’s done this. But he’s an extremely unreliable character IMO.

Aside from the green stuff what else has he renounced?

 

[Exilegull]

In (our current) real world, with FPTP, there is no room for such 'dreaming'. It simply doesn't work like that.

'Just not the Tories' is in reality EXACTLY what he should be focusing his energies on, at this time. Once this poisonous government is removed, he can then use his platform to seek to influence the route of the new government, in the direction he 'dreams' of.

Taking a stance in opposition to the Labour leadership at this time, is effectively supporting the Tory government.

Ok I hope he and other young people with political interest see it in a different way. Clearly he sees Labour as way too similar to the current lot and wants something different while you and others want same shit different name and some people with bigger visions than yours wont be curbed by the anti democratic anti free speech "either with us or against us" talk

 

[pocketseagull]

Aside from the green stuff what else has he renounced?

Five times Keir Starmer has changed tack on policy

Labour leader has performed U-turns and trimmed reform plans in effort to maximise the party’s electoral appeal

www.ft.com

All Keir Starmer’s Labour U-turns in one place

POLITICO lists 27 (and counting) key walkbacks in Starmer’s spell as opposition leader.

www.politico.eu

He said what Labour members wanted to hear in order to be elected leader of the party.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Five times Keir Starmer has changed tack on policy

Labour leader has performed U-turns and trimmed reform plans in effort to maximise the party’s electoral appeal

www.ft.com

All Keir Starmer’s Labour U-turns in one place

POLITICO lists 27 (and counting) key walkbacks in Starmer’s spell as opposition leader.

www.politico.eu

He said what Labour members wanted to hear in order to be elected leader of the party.

I can’t read the FT as it’s behind a firewall. But the other one is scraping the barrel a bit.

I don’t doubt that things which were pledges when he won the leadership might be further down the list of priorities 4 years later. After all the unprecedented and in some cases totally unforeseen, events of the past 4 years I would expect most to re-adjust their focus.

It’s a shame the Tories are dragging this out for so long, otherwise we’d have both their manifestos in our hands and we’d know the policies which will hopefully get the elected and which we can then properly hold them to.

 

[Weststander]

I can’t read the FT as it’s behind a firewall. But the other one is scraping the barrel a bit.

I don’t doubt that things which were pledges when he won the leadership might be further down the list of priorities 4 years later. After all the unprecedented and in some cases totally unforeseen, events of the past 4 years I would expect most to re-adjust their focus.

It’s a shame the Tories are dragging this out for so long, otherwise we’d have both their manifestos in our hands and we’d know the policies which will hopefully get the elected and which we can then properly hold them to.

I’m fine with perceived ‘u-turns’. Tunnel vision is far worse.

My interest is Labour’s manifesto, them more so a Labour government’s deeds.

 

[jcdenton08]

I’m more a fan of John-Owen Jones…

 

[hans kraay fan club]

Ok I hope he and other young people with political interest see it in a different way. Clearly he sees Labour as way too similar to the current lot and wants something different while you and others want same shit different name and some people with bigger visions than yours wont be curbed by the anti democratic anti free speech "either with us or against us" talk

With respect you’ve no idea at all what I want, or how big ‘my vision’ is. You’ve been here on this site for 5 minutes, and I dare say if you had been more familiar with my (long and dull) posting history, you’d have understood that my background ideology is very much to the left of Starmer and co.

I’d advocate the re-nationalisation of utilities and transport networks, higher taxation and social care budgets, complete reform of the asylum system, immediate commencement of exploratory talks to rejoin the single market, abolishment of private schools, abolishment of faith schools, massive investment in public transport infrastructure, inflation-linked pay increases for front line teaching and medical staff, the banning of foreign ownership of UK print media, immediate striking from the books of the new laws on protesting, and a scrapping of 100% of tuition fees for students taking degrees in teaching, medicine and other skills shortfalls (linked to a commitment to a minimum period of public service after graduation).

But grandstanding for clicks, and seeking to undermine the Labour party in the run up to a FPTP election, is absolutely not the way to further that wish list. Get elected, THEN try to steer the country in the right direction. Get things moving forward in a positive manner and seek to engage the public to back some of the more radical possibilities. IMO like.