[Politics] Owen Jones

[Dave the OAP]

 

[Nobby Cybergoat]

I just read the article and I disagree with most of it.

I think Owen has his heart in the right place. But he's working on the assumption that a labour majority is a foregone conclusion and that Starmer has a fair media landscape to work with.

Starmer is right to continue to jump through the hoops he needs to jump through. It doesn't excite me much either, but i'll take uninspiring over horrific every single day of the week

 

[Nobby Cybergoat]

Once he is the Government, Labour will be every bit as unpopular as the Tories are now, unless he can make meaningful changes.

It will be impossible to improve the economy significantly in the short term. Not without rejoining the EU or doing some sort of Biden style stimulus, both of which he's wisely promised not to do.

What he can do, is win the election, then offer stability, competence and compassionate social policy.

He'll be brutally attacked from day 1 on things on which Tories have had a free pass for years, but I think he'll get through the parliament not being widely despised like the tories are.

 

[Titanic]

...but I think he'll get through the parliament not being widely despised like the tories are.

Sounds inspiring

 

[HCxUK]

People like Owen Jones would seemingly prefer Labour never to be elected. They don't seem to understand that the majority of Brits are broadly Centrist - some a little to the left, some a little to the right. Most of us want a fairer society than we have currently, but are still very much in favour of incentivising enterprise, etc, etc.

Blair got it, and Starmer seems to get it. Owen Jones and his ilk would rather seethe and moan from the far left, undermining the valiant efforts of centre-left politicians, and leaving the door open for loonies like Farage and Rees-Mogg.

 

[lost in london]

I read Owen Jones piece this morning.

I don't understand his or others criticism of Starmer. To me he seems like a decent person with his heart in the right place.

I can absolutely understand why Labour aren't throwing promises around right now: (i) if they do, the tories will nick it (eg non-doms reform) (ii) they have no idea what state the country will be in as they don't know when the election will be (iii) they have no idea how much money is available. We saw in the last budget how Hunt's hands were tied more than anticipated by lower tax receipts and inflation remaining higher than anticipated. The other key reason is there isn't any money. The only way to turn the country's key infrastructure around (prisons, roads, school buildings, NHS etc) is deep, long-term reform of major institutions and processes. That isn't going to be quick and throwing a few soundbites or cheap policies around won't do it.

 

[ATFC Seagull]

I like Owen Jones. Tends to have a sensible take on most things. Chavs and The Establishment are brilliant, and his book on Corbyn was actually very critical of his leadership and handling of the antisemitism situation.

Interesting there's three pages of "good riddance" style replies, and only two posts that actually outline any actual reasons for disliking him.

 

[Uh_huh_him]

It will be impossible to improve the economy significantly in the short term. Not without rejoining the EU or doing some sort of Biden style stimulus, both of which he's wisely promised not to do.

What he can do, is win the election, then offer stability, competence and compassionate social policy.

He'll be brutally attacked from day 1 on things on which Tories have had a free pass for years, but I think he'll get through the parliament not being widely despised like the tories are.

He is already widely despised.
That will increase once he takes the top job.

He doesn't have the charisma to win people over, he needs to make obvious gains quickly.
The Tories lurch to Populism can run and run, completely unchecked, in opposition.

If he doesn't have a comprehensive plan for the first year, he'll be absolutely f***ed.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

It will be impossible to improve the economy significantly in the short term. Not without rejoining the EU or doing some sort of Biden style stimulus, both of which he's wisely promised not to do.

What he can do, is win the election, then offer stability, competence and compassionate social policy.

He'll be brutally attacked from day 1 on things on which Tories have had a free pass for years, but I think he'll get through the parliament not being widely despised like the tories are.

Yes, that's exactly where I am on all this, including the expectation of an instant pile on from the forces of evil.

 

[Greg Bobkin]

You asked what he thought people might do with the info and I answered. I'm not sure "No thanks!" works in the context?

Ah! I thought you were suggesting that *I* should do the research

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

He is already widely despised.
That will increase once he takes the top job.

He doesn't have the charisma to win people over, he needs to make obvious gains quickly.
The Tories lurch to Populism can run and run, completely unchecked, in opposition.

If he doesn't have a comprehensive plan for the first year, he'll be absolutely f***ed.

(Edit: apologies I think you were referring to Owen Jones? Or are you? Owen Joes is a complete arse. Sounds like my brother who refuses to vote labour because they are not left wing enough for him and would rather have a tory government because at least they aren't pretending to be socialists.)

Are you talking about Starmer?

Crikey.

By the silly-arse wing of the labour party, and by the vile wing of the tories, certainly.

But by who else?

 

[Eeyore]

I like Owen Jones. Tends to have a sensible take on most things. Chavs and The Establishment are brilliant, and his book on Corbyn was actually very critical of his leadership and handling of the antisemitism situation.

Interesting there's three pages of "good riddance" style replies, and only two posts that actually outline any actual reasons for disliking him.

Chavs is a brilliant book. I read it once on the way to an away match.

Owen Jones seems so angry all the time though. But I don't get the hate. But that's the internet really. All froth.

 

[Nobby Cybergoat]

He is already widely despised.

That is obviously untrue.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

That is obviously untrue.

If he's referring to Starmer, I agree. The statement would be absurd.

 

[London Irish]

Has left the Labour Party.

Excellent, if the likes of him leave, I might join.

Your politics are rooted in deep, positive conviction then

 

[London Irish]

Dull attention-craving loser. Good riddance to him and his Tory-enabling shower.

You can't use that line any more given the people currently in charge of Labour did everything possible to tank Labour's chances between 2015 and 2019, so that makes them Boris Johnson enablers. It's all been documented by neutral sources such as the Forde report

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Has left the Labour Party.

Excellent, if the likes of him leave, I might join.

I wish I'd read your post before tumbling into the whirlpool of subsequent twaddle.

It was after Corbyn was begone that I (re)joined.

It's strange how people who might have largely laudable values absolutely ruin themselves with a hysterical lack of composure, unrealistic expectations, and an apparent desire to vindictively damage the people with whom they share the most things in common, simply because they don't share all things in common. Not a team player, and instead a narcissistic show pony. Ta ra.

 

[London Irish]

I just read the article and I disagree with most of it.

I think Owen has his heart in the right place. But he's working on the assumption that a labour majority is a foregone conclusion and that Starmer has a fair media landscape to work with.

Starmer is right to continue to jump through the hoops he needs to jump through. It doesn't excite me much either, but i'll take uninspiring over horrific every single day of the week

It's genuinely rare for people to disagree with Jones and come out with anything sane, so bravo. I fear you'll find that addressing the problems that Britain has will require more than agreeing with the Tories virtually all the time, but we're all going to have to go through that process so let's check back in a year or two's time.

Actually I think your man is fine as most of the Tory press apart from the real diehards want a bloodletting in the Tory parliamentary party in the next General Election, almost a start from scratch with a completely new lot of MPs, as they think the Tory leadership choices on offer are useless at the moment (can't disagree there even if they only want another useless bunch of Camerons/Osbornes to come back). A tame Labour party that act like the Tories for one or two terms is fine by them, they'll take their orders from the newspapers any way

 

[London Irish]

I cant stand Owen Jones, but as a life long left of centrist I certainly have no love for what the current Labour party are today and have no confidence that they will be anything other than another party in the pocket of big business. I couldn't trust Starmer less. WOuld still be better than the tories I guess but it really is depressing there is no way out of the terrible two-party trap politics has left us with.

Interesting - but you don't ascribe this to a failure by centrism to come up with tangible policy ideas to govern? Ask anyone to say what the Labour party stands for at the moment or how it will be tangibly different to the Tories and all you will get is meaningless waffle like they'll be competent, as if you were talking about a branch manager at Sainsbury's rather than doing anything about what's going wrong with Britain. One policy idea? Just anything different?

You are obviously right that Starmer is an awful politician, he is Labour's Theresa May, zero charisma that will crumble the first second he is under any pressure like May did. He won't be put under any pressure and will be completely untested this side of the General Election as most of the media groupthink believe the Tories are finished and want a change - even if the change will be more akin to Tory cabinet reshuffle than a change of government give the near complete policy overlap.

But to blame it all on Starmer is wrong. His faction are still exhausted since New Labour ran on to the rocks in the late Noughties, no vision, no ideas, no nothing. Unlike Blair who got lucky with the late 1990s economic boom that was under way as he was elected and ended up giving Labour more room to spend on health and education, Starmer will come in with next to no growth at all and has pledged to carry on with spending cuts. Good luck noticing any difference from the Tories, except at the soap opera level of replacing the actors

 

[beorhthelm]

I just read the article and I disagree with most of it.

I think Owen has his heart in the right place. But he's working on the assumption that a labour majority is a foregone conclusion and that Starmer has a fair media landscape to work with.

Starmer is right to continue to jump through the hoops he needs to jump through. It doesn't excite me much either, but i'll take uninspiring over horrific every single day of the week

Owen Jones is working to the assumption his opinions are most important, and anything Labour do that dont align with his views are wrong.