[Technology] Outsourcing Python Development to Vietnam or The Philippines?

[Tim Over Whelmed]

Have lived here in Philippines a few years in a couple of the Central Business Districts of it's capital. Sadly don't really have any friends or good contacts in I.T. but can ask around who friends use etc.

There are plenty of very good employees and plenty of dreadful ones just like any country. Sadly the ones who earn a handful of dollars a day are not going to be as good as the ones who earn say half or a third what they would in Brighton doing the same job. A lot of companies are run by rich foreigners or by rich locals who will just make all the proift and farm you off to the cheapest of the cheap for max short term profit.

My advise would be if possible to get in with a very small company who you can build more of a personal relationship with. I can't promise to help, but if any questions or simple enough things I can do on the ground here then feel free to ask

My business partner is out there in two weeks, but thank you. I agree, you do get what you pay for and how much you invest in training, the people and the community. Thank you for your offer, that's very kind. Would be good to understand local rates for developers as the normal website for salary comparisons don't seem to match what's happening on the ground.

 

[Steve Works]

There are other alternatives if you're still interested. I've been working with Nearshoring Partner for a couple of years and you barely feel it's an outsourcing company.

 

[SollysLeftFoot]

Would it be cheaper than in house? Python's not a complex language like other OOP like C# and C++.

What kind of software are you looking to develop?

 

[Miami Seagull]

We found the same. Philippines has worked well and the language definitely helps.

 

[PILTDOWN MAN]

We’ve increased our insulation to 22mm that has helped reach our desired serving temperature of our beer brands. It’s made in the GB. Buy British I say

 

[swindonseagull]

I worked in The Philippines for 3 years 2008-11 my work was indirectly with call centres ( as a Consultant for UK and US companies) I'm not sure about using them for development that will depend on the people that you hire, language is no problem at all in fact it's an advantage over India as the accent is easier to understand, depending on what you pay will depend if you get loyalty , commitment and good attendance, ( if it rained many employees would be off with flu!!!) my Filipino wife ( of 35 years) told me to get rid as they were not committed, but I'm to soft!! Problem is you can't tar everyone with the same brush..
Salary in Philippines is crap probably averaging £250 per month before deduction.
And the clever / educated ones know they can quadruple their salary working abroad. So you have to work hard to get loyalty and commitment as soon as we had trained up people they were off.... And I don't blame them, their holidays are 10 days per year, no sick leave, crap salary and don't normally get paid during training.

I love the Philippines and have been most years since 1982 plus working and living there....

Any questions just pm

 

[kevo]

My company outsourced a lot of its work and it was a complete disaster, as the quality was so appalling. The company lost clients and had to pay a ridiculous amount of overtime to UK staff for correcting errors. Even now, three years on, the UK staff spend a significant proportion of time correcting the outsource team's mistakes. We often joke it would take less time, cost less money, and cause much less stress, if we just did it all ourselves. There really isn't much in it - the quality of work would be much better, and the company would have avoided the last three years of ball ache and probably retained some of the clients they've lost.

Oh, and something else - people wouldn't have lost their jobs.

 

[Tim Over Whelmed]

There are other alternatives if you're still interested. I've been working with Nearshoring Partner for a couple of years and you barely feel it's an outsourcing company.

Thanks, I'll PM you

 

[Tim Over Whelmed]

Would it be cheaper than in house? Python's not a complex language like other OOP like C# and C++.

What kind of software are you looking to develop?

We have a variety of projects, but since writing the original post we appear to be moving away from Python.

 

[Tim Over Whelmed]

My company outsourced a lot of its work and it was a complete disaster, as the quality was so appalling. The company lost clients and had to pay a ridiculous amount of overtime to UK staff for correcting errors. Even now, three years on, the UK staff spend a significant proportion of time correcting the outsource team's mistakes. We often joke it would take less time, cost less money, and cause much less stress, if we just did it all ourselves. There really isn't much in it - the quality of work would be much better, and the company would have avoided the last three years of ball ache and probably retained some of the clients they've lost.

Oh, and something else - people wouldn't have lost their jobs.

Agree, this is back in the melting pot now also!

 

[Arthur]

I have scrum teams in Manila and in Hyderabad as well as here in the UK. Out of the offshore teams the Manila team are far more approachable and considerably cheaper. The quality of output is pretty similar.

As others have said you get what you pay for. Pay decent wedge and you'll get very talented developers who are happy to go above and beyond. The traffic is so bad in Manila my guys and gal are happy to work hours that replicate the UK even if that means finishing at 11 or 12 at night.

The main issue I have with the Filipinos is they are at times too respectful and too polite and won't ask questions or contribute to the wider discussion...we certainly don't have that issue with the Indians.

We're very Java heavy but have just kicked off a ML/AI project in the UK which I expect will go down the Python route. This will need to become BAU once off the ground and we'll need it supported somewhere so I'd be interested to hear how you get on.

 

[Arthur]

I worked in The Philippines for 3 years 2008-11 my work was indirectly with call centres ( as a Consultant for UK and US companies) I'm not sure about using them for development that will depend on the people that you hire, language is no problem at all in fact it's an advantage over India as the accent is easier to understand, depending on what you pay will depend if you get loyalty , commitment and good attendance, ( if it rained many employees would be off with flu!!!) my Filipino wife ( of 35 years) told me to get rid as they were not committed, but I'm to soft!! Problem is you can't tar everyone with the same brush..
Salary in Philippines is crap probably averaging £250 per month before deduction.
And the clever / educated ones know they can quadruple their salary working abroad. So you have to work hard to get loyalty and commitment as soon as we had trained up people they were off.... And I don't blame them, their holidays are 10 days per year, no sick leave, crap salary and don't normally get paid during training.

I love the Philippines and have been most years since 1982 plus working and living there....

Any questions just pm

Hahaha we're in the process of moving more of our call centres out there and away from the UK as feedback has suggested the offshore team are easier to understand than the UK ones.

Agree about the employee benefits to an extent as its down the to employer. We've just been acquired and those on the previous contract get a nice deal holiday wise however the newer employees on our new parent company contract get shafted (12 days and you can't take a day off in your first 6 months). They do have a lot of public holidays over there though.

There are a lot of brown envelopes flying about behind the scenes from what I'm told. If you are planning on opening an office out there then make sure you have someone who can grease a few palms. We've recently moved from Makati to Pasay and getting licences and safety certs for the offices were challenging to say the least but then suddenly appeared.

 

[middletoenail]

I'm based in Asia and work for a French consulting company, we have a subsidiary in Vietnam so let me know if you need me to connect you.

www.bocasay.com

Good luck!

 

[PoG]

My company outsourced a lot of its work and it was a complete disaster, as the quality was so appalling. The company lost clients and had to pay a ridiculous amount of overtime to UK staff for correcting errors. Even now, three years on, the UK staff spend a significant proportion of time correcting the outsource team's mistakes. We often joke it would take less time, cost less money, and cause much less stress, if we just did it all ourselves. There really isn't much in it - the quality of work would be much better, and the company would have avoided the last three years of ball ache and probably retained some of the clients they've lost.

Oh, and something else - people wouldn't have lost their jobs.

As a developer in the UK that has worked with outsourced code this rings true time and time again.