[Albion] Our centre midfield

[Sarisbury Seagull]

I think this is an area of the pitch where we have struggled at times this season but thought we looked a lot stronger in centre midfield on Saturday with Bissouma starting ahead of Stephens and really hope now Bissouma and Propper start every game there when fit. I do think they are both quality players and hands up, I’m not a big Stephens fan.

Anyway I’ve seen some comments on here from people saying that Stephens should be our first choice pick and that he’s the engine of our team which I find bizarre and I’ve just never seen, I think he is a weak link for us now.

Anyway, thought I’d look at the stats and this season with him starting we average only 0.94 points per game which is relegation form. Without him starting we average 1.38 points per game, top half form.

Surely it’s time we dropped the loyalty and started with our best players in the most important part of the pitch? We might start to make progress then.

 

[Knocky's Nose]

I think I could only describe Propper last Saturday as 'Imperious'. I think once Bissouma finds his feet they'll make a great combo. We've got Dunk & Duffy, so another great pairing would be superb.

Bruno & Knocky had a good understanding, but they seem to be slipping away into the ether a bit these days..

 

[Nixonator]

I think this is an area of the pitch where we have struggled at times this season but thought we looked a lot stronger in centre midfield on Saturday with Bissouma starting ahead of Stephens and really hope now Bissouma and Propper start every game there when fit. I do think they are both quality players and hands up, I’m not a big Stephens fan.

Anyway I’ve seen some comments on here from people saying that Stephens should be our first choice pick and that he’s the engine of our team which I find bizarre and I’ve just never seen, I think he is a weak link for us now.

Anyway, thought I’d look at the stats and this season with him starting we average only 0.94 points per game which is relegation form. Without him starting we average 1.38 points per game, top half form.

Surely it’s time we dropped the loyalty and started with our best players in the most important part of the pitch? We might start to make progress then.

Bissouma didn't have a great game on Saturday, not sure how that escaped your notice. I'm guessing it has something to do with you turning up on every relevant thread to have a pop at our most consistent midfielder over the past 4 seasons.

Re. Bissouma he is still very raw. I maintain he will be the first player we are forced to sell, that's how much I rate him but we need to be careful.

 

[Rugrat]

Anyway, thought I’d look at the stats and this season with him starting we average only 0.94 points per game which is relegation form. Without him starting we average 1.38 points per game, top half form.

This is a massive over simplification and doesn't back up your argument at all. If you are going to use stats you need to get down to a detailed individual level.

 

[Justice]

Was nice to see big Davy and Biss passing to Brighton players for a change.

 

[beorhthelm]

Bissouma makes mistakes, but didnt seem critical ones (perhaps the opposition helped there). hes more positive and assertive.

 

[Napier]

Was nice to see big Davy and Biss passing to Brighton players for a change.

And in a forward direction.

 

[zefarelly]

You could easily get dropped for that

And in a forward direction.

 

[Wilko]

People seem to have huge blind-spots with Stephens:

* Many think he is poor and thus totally miss the breaking up of play and getting the attacks started.

* Many think he is superb and 'never gives the ball away' and miss the fact that, well, he is often doing just that, spraying passes about all game......to the opposition.

The truth sits somewhere in the middle, he is a good but limited midfielder in the PL.

 

[Bold Seagull]

Bissouma didn't have a great game on Saturday, not sure how that escaped your notice. I'm guessing it has something to do with you turning up on every relevant thread to have a pop at our most consistent midfielder over the past 4 seasons.

Re. Bissouma he is still very raw. I maintain he will be the first player we are forced to sell, that's how much I rate him but we need to be careful.

Completely agree, made the same point to [MENTION=9708]Farehamseagull[/MENTION] on an identical post he made after Saturday.

I would say the most attacking/effective midfield we have at present is Stephens holding, Gross on the right side working with March and Montoya, Propper working on the left side with Locadia and Bong/Bernado. We get the best of Propper/Gross, and still have a shield in front of the back 4.

Bissouma is no doubt very promising, and I can forgive him a quiet game Saturday because coming into the side 20mins or so before KO cannot be easy, and he looked like a player that wasn't completely at ease with what his role and responsibilities were. He was still an able inclusion and you can see why he has jumped ahead of Kayal.

Some people just have their players they don't rate. Once that enters your mind, subconsciously you only note the mistakes and never acknowledge the good things. Got to shake that fixed opinion in your mind, try to watch the player afresh and appreciate the good things they do, not just when they miss place a pass because that is all you then see or remember.

 

[Tony Meolas Loan Spell]

Well it would help if CH subbed Dale at Fulham and brought Kayal on to add a bit of bite as Dale was on a yellow so couldn't tackle. But then I guess it wasnt the 70th min for the Andone on Murray off sub

 

[pishhead]

People seem to have huge blind-spots with Stephens:

* Many think he is poor and thus totally miss the breaking up of play and getting the attacks started.

* Many think he is superb and 'never gives the ball away' and miss the fact that, well, he is often doing just that, spraying passes about all game......to the opposition.

The truth sits somewhere in the middle, he is a good but limited midfielder in the PL.

That pretty much sums up Stephens. If we are to evolve as a club getting in someone more mobile in the summer is critical, that's not to say that he won't be in and around the first team next season.

 

[Bold Seagull]

People seem to have huge blind-spots with Stephens:

* Many think he is poor and thus totally miss the breaking up of play and getting the attacks started.

* Many think he is superb and 'never gives the ball away' and miss the fact that, well, he is often doing just that, spraying passes about all game......to the opposition.

The truth sits somewhere in the middle, he is a good but limited midfielder in the PL.

Well exactly and the point I was trying to make above. Once you get an idea in your head a player isn't good enough, whether it's Ashley Barnes, Dale Stephens, or whoever, you tend to allow all the good things they do wash over you, but as soon as a pass goes astray, your brain kicks in with 'see I was right, not good enough'. We all must do it to a certain degree, and of course it works in completely the opposite way with a player you absolutely rate but don't see the mistakes they make.

 

[Cozzy]

I would not single out any single player as problematic , they have all had poor games & good games and that is the biggest problem , consistency. The premier league you need to be on good form & at the top of your game every week as shown by even Liverpool & Man City because if you aren't you get punished more often than not.
Stephens & Kayal are our 'old guard' who have served us very well over the past few seasons but as already seen the younger guard are coming through with Propper being picked (rightly IMHO) ahead of Kayal. Slowly Stephens will be replaced by younger blood and thats happened a little already with Bissouma coming into the team & looking like he will be a step up once the rawness has been worked on.
You could easily argue Gross as a deeper midfield has been 'off form' most the season when fit and again it comes back to consistency with there being a limited number of times you could say our midfield have ALL been at their peak & best in the same game at the same time.
Lack of consistency could be put for the whole team as even Dunk & Duffy have had off games though not as many.

 

[LamieRobertson]

Bissouma didn't have a great game on Saturday, not sure how that escaped your notice. I'm guessing it has something to do with you turning up on every relevant thread to have a pop at our most consistent midfielder over the past 4 seasons.

Re. Bissouma he is still very raw. I maintain he will be the first player we are forced to sell, that's how much I rate him but we need to be careful.

Glad I'm not the only one who has noticed that...still it is a thread they've started and confirmed they don't rate Stephens therefore wouldn't start him... no surprise there then

 

[Marshy]

Dale and Davy are still very much the preferred pairing and rightly so

I would expect Bissouma too work his way into the side next season. He is has been said quite raw still, regularly caught wrong side of the ball/man and a bit casual at times with his passing

But potentially our best centre mid by some way.

 

[Bold Seagull]

Dale and Davy are still very much the preferred pairing and rightly so.

I agree with what you say, but would you also say they're no longer a pairing as per last season? I feel we've been setting up more like this of late:

Ryan
Duffy - Dunk
Montoya -------------- Bernardo
Stephens
Gross --- Propper
March ---------------------- Locadia
Murray​

[MENTION=435]Stat Brother[/MENTION] made a good point on another thread that Gross's goal return this season is that he isn't playing directly behind the striker in a no.10 or CAM (not sure I like these acronyms that crop up in coaching these days) but is helping our attacking play in other ways (as well as having more time out than last season already). March had a very good game on Saturday I thought, pushing Propper for motm, but that has been facilitated by having Gross much closer to him and brings Montoya into play.

Turned into more of a Gross - Propper pairing, granted on Saturday it was Gross - Bissouma with Propper central. I think it shows how Hughton has evolved the tactics over time this season with the personnel he has. Strengthening the full backs has enabled him to do this I think.

 

[studio150]

I think this highlights the need for an upgrade in a holding midfielder which would allow Propper and Bisouma to play on the front foot when we are in possession. This would mean Stephens becoming a squad player. and also raises the question of Gross, who is an excellent free kick taker and can also put in dangerous crosses, but is lacking in pace.

However the team is evolving (for the better) and current favourite players become squad players rather than starters or move to different clubs.

 

[WATFORD zero]

I agree with what you say, but would you also say they're no longer a pairing as per last season? I feel we've been setting up more like this of late:

Ryan
Duffy - Dunk
Montoya -------------- Bernardo
Stephens
Gross --- Propper
March ---------------------- Locadia
Murray​

[MENTION=435]Stat Brother[/MENTION] made a good point on another thread that Gross's goal return this season is that he isn't playing directly behind the striker in a no.10 or CAM (not sure I like these acronyms that crop up in coaching these days) but is helping our attacking play in other ways (as well as having more time out than last season already). March had a very good game on Saturday I thought, pushing Propper for motm, but that has been facilitated by having Gross much closer to him and brings Montoya into play.

Turned into more of a Gross - Propper pairing, granted on Saturday it was Gross - Bissouma with Propper central. I think it shows how Hughton has evolved the tactics over time this season with the personnel he has. Strengthening the full backs has enabled him to do this I think.

Exactly. Bissouma didn't replace Stephens (and I don't think he ever has). When Stephens is out, Propper replaces him and, on saturday, Bissouma replaced Propper.

Last season and beginning of this, we played with Stephens and Propper as defensive midfielders with Gross as no 10 and, consequently Gross got far more assists and goals. Since the change mid season to one holding midfielder we have looked far more dangerous going forward IMHO.

If anyone's place is under pressure from Bissouma, it would probably be Gross, but for his dead ball expertise.

 

[Not Andy Naylor]

All our midfield players (all our players, in fact) have flaws or they would be playing for top-six clubs. I was just a little concerned when CH said the other day that we wouldn't be doing any transfer business because we have a full squad. If you stand still in this league, you fall behind.